spank - I've noticed this too.

vain - the only thing similar I've had is where the lower wishbone becomes damaged and the steering gets knocked out so you have the wheel at 45 degrees when driving straight. Which circuit did this happen at? Fern Bay by any chance? big kerbs there.

No, Westhill and Kyoto were the last I recall.
Note that the F10 view reported *no* permanent damage. Not the least. I didn't even see any flash in F10, I just figure it would have shown up if I viewed it.

Vain

Do you know if anyone else has had the same thing happen?

Obviously spank.
And perhaps you.

Vain

Quote from Gentlefoot :

Afro - great race wasn't it. I was very surprised to see you still behind me after 30 odd laps. You were quick on those R4s man. I switched to R3s front!

I had a busy race! here's the .MPR :- http://theafro.budshovel.co.uk/

(BTW it might take a little while to update, you might just get a bad picture of me in the woods looking rough! damn easyspace!)

You said it was your right rear that blew? Perhaps the one thing that constitutes to the blowout is the rain channel (or whatever else the long narrow thing is) in the long left hander before the long right hander to sector 3. On several occasions during the race my right rear got 'caught' in it in such a way it could have scrubbed heavily against the inside tyrewall. Over 20 laps it could add up to enough wear to cause the tyre to blow even though the F9 screen is showing no apparent signs of the inevitable.

Having said that, I ran with r3s at the front and r2s at the back with two stops on laps 20 and 40 respectively. I got caught in that slit several times, occasionally causing heavy sliding but I had no problems even though I pushed really hard towards the end of each stint.

Same strategy that I was planning then. I know the thing you mean just as you turn into the flat out left hander. I try to stay away from it but I did run over it a few times. Thing is, it was the right hand rear in the 2nd stint but the left hand rear that went in the 3rd stint. I'm starting to think the rears didn't get changed at the stop. Check it tonight and let you know.

There's you're replay then boys - see TheAfros post - same race

Is there a replay of the race? One could have a look at it, and analyse a bit...

hey gentlefoot i hope you dont mind me borrowing your thread.

tonight i'll be participating in an event in which i'm planning to drive the fxo. im not too familiar with fwds, and i think im going to be in alot of trouble. the races (1st 15 laps, 2nd 27, iirc) are going to be held on fe green. i've done some testing; my right front wheel is unpleasantly red (on the surface, not the inside) after only ~5 laps!

does anyone have some tips when it comes to fwd racing? obviously i should not skid the tyres too much, but other than that?

I only have a bit experience from XFR racing but from what I know most people are turning way too much. They don't understeer extremely, but the same or even a slightly better radius could be archieved by much less steering.

Just try forcing yourself to steer less alltogether or alteast return the steering to lower angles after the initial impulse. If you're running a setup with locked or high diff, remember to use throttle AND brake while turning in, as this greatly reduces the initial push such a setup causes.

Higher tyre pressure, locked diff, good heat distribution (inner and middle about the same, outer slightly cooler), and never have the tyre scrub or squeal. When the tyres produce a scrubbing sound they are already on the way to overheat.

Vain

Quote from AndroidXP :

I only have a bit experience from XFR racing but from what I know most people are turning way too much. They don't understeer extremely, but the same or even a slightly better radius could be archieved by much less steering.

Just try forcing yourself to steer less alltogether or alteast return the steering to lower angles after the initial impulse. If you're running a setup with locked or high diff, remember to use throttle AND brake while turning in, as this greatly reduces the initial push such a setup causes.

Definately, you've really got to avoid using too much lock, it makes the difference between lasting 5 laps and lasting 25, especially if it's a tight one with lots of braking/accelerating. Toe out can help, but it can give a slightly mushy feel to the front end.

BTW Replay url works now!

Ok i havent finished watching it all yet but it doesnt change the Right Rear at the first stop but does change the Left Rear.

I can only presume that an incident or as discussed above the inside wheel going light and locking easier has caused the left to show as more worn than the right even tho the right is obviously taking much more load around the oval.

Im guessing that something similar may happen at the next stop but the left rear will not be changed and a similar result may occur.

[Edit]Yup was right about the Left rear not being changed but also the spin you had caused by the 1st blowout did a lot of damage to the Left rear although not enough for it to be changed. I'd say you were unlucky tbh[/Edit]

[2nd EDIT] lol the roll on lap 44 also doesnt help the tyre situation tbh scrubs some more of that sucka [/Edit]

[Final EDIT] lotsa dirt on the tyres and scrubbing it off wore out the left rear along with the incidents mentioned above. Was a thoroughly enjoyable race to watch Even at the last stop it only changed 3 tyres so you were lucky in one respect after all the spins on the pit in lap to finish. You need to adjust your pit strategy with regard to the tyre wear. I know this will be changed in future but obviously this doesnt help you now.

The way i work it is this. for the first stop i woulda had the tyre value at 30 percent. for a third of the race it would change only the tyres which will not last to the end. Assuming as in this case it changes the lot the next one i would adjust it to 50 percent as this applies the same principle but only since the last tyre change. Not fool proof by any means as it assumes consistent driving etc etc but to date hasnt let me down yet.

Hope this is all clear [/Edit]

I have had virtually new tires blow when I had a major lockup... I got cut off. Boom, the tire blew. Pretty realistic in a way.
I have also had tires blow just as I banged across a curb. The tires were getting thin, but had several laps left in them. I hit a curb too hard, the guy behind me who was on new tires hit me, we both rolled. I ended up on the wheels just before pit-in. He landed on his back. Race ruined for him .
I tried to push the tires too far. If you can do 20 laps in testing, then expect less in the race. Not necessarily because you drive any different, but because stuff happens and you need a bit of insurance. Plus, factor in that extra pit stop compared to driving an entire lap with a blown tire. That pit stop starts looking pretty good.

I have had good success on longer races by going with R2 tires and doing a 3 stopper instead of a 2 stopper. I also usually set my change tires setting to something very low. I figure it isn't worth the few seconds you gain by not changing the rears as compared to getting new rubber all-around.

I am not saying you did anything wrong... just stating my opinion.

I've not had the rears blowout, but I have had the strange experience when you have some kind of violence happen to the car, and it feels all wierd through the FFB but no damage is showing on the F10 view. I've always assumed that it was actually the wheel itself going slightly out out kilter as a result of being flung around by me and the FF motor.

You've got your answer imo, the fact you didn't change the tyres is almost certainly the cause. I've just finished a 4 round league in the XFR, 3 races just over an hour, the last a two driver team event 3 hrs long.
With the XFR you can't bank on the rears being able to last two stints even if they look to have more than half the tread still left after the first stint.
Our first race was KY Nat Rev, I did a one stopper and didn't change the rears, they lasted but not by much it seemed in the end and the handling was affected with the wear and the fact they cooled down.
In testing for the third race at AS Nat my left rear blew on the second stint when I didn't change them. It started locking up for T1 and kept locking on the same spot, I had at least a third of the tread left on the tyre display but after 3 or 4 laps it went. In the race I did change all tyres and finished but one of my team mates didn't and spun out, his tyre didn't blow but he spun cause he lost too much grip as they'd cooled too much.
In the final 3hr race Latch and I changed all tyres on each of our four stops and we ended up winning (against the likes of Chaz ). We did stints of 27-29 laps with R2's all round at BL1. The extra time in the pits didn't really cost us and meant we had a nice handling car all race.

While the focus in the XFR is usually all on the fronts the rears are still important. From my experience your best to change them when you change the fronts because you do run the risk of flatspotting them. Even if you don't they tend to cool down too much, losing grip and getting quite taily.

Quote from colcob :

I've not had the rears blowout, but I have had the strange experience when you have some kind of violence happen to the car, and it feels all wierd through the FFB but no damage is showing on the F10 view. I've always assumed that it was actually the wheel itself going slightly out out kilter as a result of being flung around by me and the FF motor.

What I noticed is that a frontal crash, for example plowing through a tyre stack, may screw up the wheel caster, either making the FF lighter alltogether or in extreme cases inverting the caster so the wheel tries to pull in either direction instead of centering. I experienced this numerous times (also, no damage shown in F10 menu) and driving with that is very very weird.

It happened to me in AS Club ESL testing. It IS due to the inside rear "unloaded" tyre locking up during braking and turning into the last corner.
Eventually after 20 laps or so it blew.
To fix it i move the brake balence slightly more towards the front and i didn't have any problems after that.

Quote from Grivage :

The way i work it is this. for the first stop i woulda had the tyre value at 30 percent. for a third of the race it would change only the tyres which will not last to the end. Assuming as in this case it changes the lot the next one i would adjust it to 50 percent as this applies the same principle but only since the last tyre change. Not fool proof by any means as it assumes consistent driving etc etc but to date hasnt let me down yet.

Hope this is all clear

Unfortunately this dosen't quite work, i'm damn sure that LFS takes an average rather than reading the lowest part , what you describe was exactly what i had done, but LFS didn't seem to pick up the flatspots, increasing front bias is problematic too, you'll loose the dynamic balance required for some corners (the ones with awkward/curvy braking zones) and it seems that the only way to go is to change all you're tyres, even if the rears look good for another stint, like i said before, tyre wear (especially on the rear) seems to increase exponentially as they wear/cool, thus making predicting wear a little hit & miss

Grivage - thanks mate - didn't have time to look at the replay last night but I guess that's the answer. So infact the rear right lasted 37 laps and the rear left lasted 48 laps.

Just to make it clear to some other people - it WAS NOT the rear tyres that blew out after 21 laps in testing - that was the front. I NEVER suffered a rear tyre failure during testing even after 28 laps. Even then it was the FRONT tyres that blew in testing.

Next time I will just set the tyre change if wear > setting lower. Reckon that will avoid the problem.

Thanks for all the info everyone.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

Grivage - thanks mate - didn't have time to look at the replay last night but I guess that's the answer. So infact the rear right lasted 37 laps and the rear left lasted 48 laps.

Right rear yes 37 laps, The Left rear was changed at the first stop so it lasted 28 laps. Not as long as you would think but it took a pounding from the 1st blowout spin, the roll on lap 44 and a few excursions to the grass which caused the back end to step out a little more towards the end of its life.

Quote from theafro :

Unfortunately this dosen't quite work, i'm damn sure that LFS takes an average rather than reading the lowest part , what you describe was exactly what i had done, but LFS didn't seem to pick up the flatspots, increasing front bias is problematic too, you'll loose the dynamic balance required for some corners (the ones with awkward/curvy braking zones) and it seems that the only way to go is to change all you're tyres, even if the rears look good for another stint, like i said before, tyre wear (especially on the rear) seems to increase exponentially as they wear/cool, thus making predicting wear a little hit & miss

Like i said not perfect but how i approach most races, although at dSRC most long races we run are only 1 hour so usually only 1 stop. After thinking a little more on this i prolly would of just set it to always as you rightly say better to lose some time rather than a lap of puncture fun