Quote from petrewitz :

The thing that surprise me is why any new CRT display had shown almost no difference before and after calibration while almost any modern LSD monitor shows a HUGE DIFFERENCE after a calibrator by decreasing colour saturation and brightness.

I think once you've bought your LCD monitor, callibration is a matter of filtering out the "PICK ME!!!!" factor. LCD monitors are consumer market, not really for the pro market yet. I've still yet to see an LCD monitor that, even after callibration, presents consistent contrast/saturation to my eyes, regardless of how high I sit in my seat. Even the ones people tell me to check out (because they're perfect) suck in comparison with CRTs. Having an LCD callibrated "perfectly" is pointless, if I have to constantly hold my head at exactly 15" high. Sometimes I don't want to sit like that.. but move, and the visual representation has all gone to hell in a handbasket.

Quote from petrewitz :

you are right on that. I mean that no diference in regard of colour accuracy shown on a screen.

i still dont agree
the difference should be that using colour profiles youll lose certain colours by applying the same output for 2 different inputs through the corrected curve whereas a really good hardware calibrateable one with 12+bits per colour should be able to do it without losing (as many) colours

Quote from SamH :

Having an LCD callibrated "perfectly" is pointless, if I have to constantly hold my head at exactly 15" high. Sometimes I don't want to sit like that.. but move, and the visual representation has all gone to hell in a handbasket.

sounds like youve never seen an ips in action

If we wanted to pay thousands to race wouldnt we do it for real? this game is gonna cost a bomb when u have to pay for every single thing. The developers said it was because of all the time they've spent laser modelling the tracks. But i think this sim will be a failure cos there arent that many people who are prepared to pay stupidly high prices for a game.

Quote from trebor901 :

If we wanted to pay thousands to race wouldnt we do it for real? this game is gonna cost a bomb when u have to pay for every single thing. The developers said it was because of all the time they've spent laser modelling the tracks. But i think this sim will be a failure cos there arent that many people who are prepared to pay stupidly high prices for a game.

It doesn't cost thousands, at the most, you could quite easily race for the "standard" monthly fee, as you get enough content to run a couple of series, you also get discounts or additional content and iR $'s aswell.

I personally don't like the idea of paying for content, but it certainly isn't a new thing, we've had it in the FS world since the year dot.

As for the sim being a failure, we'll just have to wait and see , but I wouldn't right it off just yet, at least not untill the general public are allowed to know what the actuall thing is like

Are they going to release a demo?

The original plan was to have a month-long demo license for $20. I hope they reconsider.

Quote from Shotglass :

sounds like youve never seen an ips in action

Granted, IPS is getting there, but the truth is that it still doesn't compare with CRT.

Two extreme angles, but it shows a difference that doesn't exist in CRT monitors. Even though the difference isn't so noticeable here, it is very noticeable when you're working closely with saturation levels, and it makes the monitor an unreliable point of reference.

Quote from Ahriman4891 :

The original plan was to have a month-long demo license for $20. I hope they reconsider.

It's not a demo license. Essentially, there is no demo--you just pay at the monthly rate for as long as you like. You can do one month at the monthly rate and then either stop playing, buy a year's subscription at $13/mo, or keep playing month to month.

Let's face it, their business model is crazy and the XFL was a better idea.

Well, that's one opinion.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

It's not a demo license. Essentially, there is no demo--you just pay at the monthly rate for as long as you like. You can do one month at the monthly rate and then either stop playing, buy a year's subscription at $13/mo, or keep playing month to month.

True, I stand corrected. I still don't like the $20/mo thing. At least make it $13/mo regardless of subscription plan. Not that the extra $7 will make me poorer, I just don't like this way of doing things.

Yeah, I'm not for it either, but bitching and doomsaying won't accomplish much.

iRacing's business model could be a stroke of genius, or them just having delusions of grandeur and totally underestimating the opposition.

We now have an online data analyser in LFS at zero cost to us. How can iRacing seriously suggest we should continually pay for their service, when LFS is pushing what is possible with an online sim at a fraction of the cost?

Quote from Intrepid :

iRacing's business model could be a stroke of genius, or them just having delusions of grandeur and totally underestimating the opposition.

We now have an online data analyser in LFS at zero cost to us. How can iRacing seriously suggest we should continually pay for their service, when LFS is pushing what is possible with an online sim at a fraction of the cost?

LFS is still failing on a few fronts. Sure, it's getting there but how long would we have to wait? What if iRacing could truly offer everything you've ever wanted out of a sim, right now?

What if it has excellent physics (not unlikely as the trickiest thing in car physics are tyres and I hear iRacing has done its own tyre tests for the exact tyres of each car and that's an area where LFS still struglles), car setup limitations exactly as they are in real life... what if the cars are every bit unsuspected driver's cars (think Mazda MX5, Lotus 7), the tracks are properly bumpy and challenging compared to LFS' dated, rather boring content (bar a few specific configs),... what if it has good graphics and yet the graphics efficiency needed by a racing simulator, allowing it not to crumble when there are cars on 3 or 4 screen like LFS does (aaah, the irony), and what if the netcode builds on NR2003's already legendary netcode to produce the best online racing we've ever seen?

As it stands, that's not unlikely. Keep in mind that a very serious sim is very very expensive to develop. Laser scanning track surfaces isn't cheap. Nor is tyre testing. That's why your content is so expensive. And they're the ones providing the servers, making sure racing quality is up to scratch and everything - that's why your monthly fee is so high.

If iRacing offers all that, it would really be worth it.

iRacing's car model won't be perfect. Imitating cars that already exist will only mean people will complain that they aren't right.

If it IS a perfect simulation it's only going to be attractive to hardcore simmers anyway. LFS is a great sim but it's accesibility is what makes it so succesful. Who are these 100s of thousands of people that would get iRacing???? No one knows about it outside the sim racing world, and even fewer are really excited about it due to it's pricing policy.

I think they over estimated the market. It may be the correct format in 5-10 years time but at the moment I think it isn't going to work.

I don't dispute it may be good but is it going to be a success hhhmmm...

Well, there are the thousands and thousands of GPL/NR2003 faithful across the globe, plus all the rF/GTR2 drivers, plus people lured in by the fact that people like Dale Earnhardt Jr., Justin Wilson, etc etc are driving it and liking it.

I agree it's going to be tough for them to significantly expand the current sim racer demographic, but it's not impossible.

Quote from Intrepid :

I don't dispute it may be good but is it going to be a success hhhmmm...

At the very least you have to admit they have the balls to try it.

lol can't argue with that. However it does scream of 'bank manager' pricing!

Quote from Intrepid :

iRacing's car model won't be perfect. Imitating cars that already exist will only mean people will complain that they aren't right.

You're wrong there - if you've got the cars, the budget and determination to measure everything it's not *that* difficult to make things perfect. In fact, it's much easier to copy the engineering off an existing car than to try and engineer a car's suspension well in a few days like Scawen did with LFS.

Quote :

If it IS a perfect simulation it's only going to be attractive to hardcore simmers anyway. LFS is a great sim but it's accesibility is what makes it so succesful. Who are these 100s of thousands of people that would get iRacing???? No one knows about it outside the sim racing world, and even fewer are really excited about it due to it's pricing policy.

A certain Dave Kaemer once said that racing sims would become easier as they become more realistic - not harder. Because they're more natural and easier to drive. There are many things that are not necessarily hard but unnatural about LFS. I really do struggle getting back into it sometimes after putting it down for a while. I've been hearing very good stories about iRacing from some beta testers though.

LFS will have its trial by fire soon, if not by iRacing, by something else... there's been little progress overall since April 2006 really. People are getting bored and walking away. Either LFS will pucker up and grow a pair or it will degrade into only having snotty teenagers with nicks like H4x0R-k!D that want to drift and cruise all day long on its servers.

As far as iRacing's pricing is concerned, I think if it's as good as I've heard, it will be worth selling a limb for. Racing sims are too cheap anyway. People expect them to be just priced like every other game - well it's not like that. Doing it properly is much more expensive. Also, the steep pricing will keep H4x0R-k!D away so racing on iRacing servers should be of very high standard.

It's not so much the actual price I'm concerned about but rather the business model... but I suppose you do pay in terms of where they've spent their money. The only alteration I would like to see is the ability to "pause" your subscription. Say you get sick or go on holiday and can't use it for a few weeks. If you're on a year's subscription, that's money for nothing. At least make it an option on the 1 year subscription, and say 3 times for a maximum of 1 month at a time.

*cough* *cough*

Could iRacing bomb?, sure, it could.

Will iRacing get the same amount of users as LFS does?, personally, no, I don't think it will.

Will the racing in iRacing be "better"?, personally, yes, I think it will.

I think LFS and iRacing are 2 very different sims, LFS is a pickup and play sim, albeit a very good one, but iRacing is going to be something VERY different.

I guess it's up to the individual to decide what they want out of a sim, and if they can afford/are prepared to pay for iRacing, or they want to stick with LFS.

I would say, if you want highly realistic, real life cars/tracks, fully sanctioned, professionally run racing, with people who are the same as you (as the price is going to filter out all the bad, childish, unsporting driver), then iRacing is going to hit your buttons.

From what I have heard......obviously

Quote from AndroidXP :

*cough* *cough*

Are we coughing about the same thing, or should I just wish you well and be on my way?

All Im going to saying to this matter is. If people are paying for Realism, then its certainly not worth it. And also It wouldn't be worth it if your looking for alot of players, becuse alot of people wont pay that first of all and second..there are tons of way better racing game that people are already associated with. And even like us who have are lfs and rfactor, I would still think that new people would choose others over that. But then again I could be wrong and like WoW, It will blow up and millions of people will have no lives . Anyways (Ranting) If your looking for a game with lots of cars and tracks and most likely the will add alot more..then its worth it..Thanks

Quote from petrewitz :

I personally can live with that angle issue

Of course! And if I built a 10ft brick wall, and it was 8 degrees from vertical, I'm sure I could live with it.. but I seriously doubt that I could win an argument with a professional builder about whether or not it was of acceptable standard. This is the difference between pro and consumer

Quote from downlikerain :

All Im going to saying to this matter is. If people are paying for Realism, then its certainly not worth it. And also It wouldn't be worth it if your looking for alot of players, becuse alot of people wont pay that first of all and second..there are tons of way better racing game that people are already associated with. And even like us who have are lfs and rfactor, I would still think that new people would choose others over that. But then again I could be wrong and like WoW, It will blow up and millions of people will have no lives . Anyways (Ranting) If your looking for a game with lots of cars and tracks and most likely the will add alot more..then its worth it..Thanks

Just wait and see