Hi all!. A few nights ago, I had an interesting discussion with my brother about comparing ourselves to racing legends like Jim Clark, Alain Prost and, in the very dangerous zone , Ayrton Senna.

Now, we're both sure that we're definitely not at their level, theres no chance that we are but one of the major questions to consider, do you believe in the chance that in future, theres a possibility that our driving ability could be equal of that of those drivers or even perhaps, be at a higher level or is it just a complete impossibility but if we were to say that it is a complete impossibility, does that not defy the concept that we're all human, that we're all the same? Of course, we had a major discussion a while ago about talent Vs. experience and how talent can't be gained, you just have it but well, we can never truly determine what it is that made certain drivers better than others.

Anyway, main point of this topic is to ask you, do you give a special status to these F1 legends and that its impossible to be at their level or do you believe that one day, with a lot of hard work, dedication and determination to improve yourself, reach their level
?

I'm most probably of the first opinion as Senna has always been my role model in racing and I try to understand and look at racing in the same way, hoping that perhaps I might be able to do some of the things he did but I'll most probably never believe that I'll be at his level, no matter what as I hold him in high regard but still, at the back of my mind, the second opinion is back there and keeps me thinking still.

NOTE: I am not stating that I'm at their level, I still believe that they're much better than me just so that you don't misunderstand my post and think I'm an arrogant c*ck

if you are born to be a champ, you would have known the first time you touch a go kart, or in the case of lewis hamilton, a RC car.

I think it's really a one in a million thing, literally.

Depends what you mean. Can a 'sim' racer reach that level, or someone who races for real?

Reach their level withint the sim environment, or for real?

How can you possibly compare yourself to a racing "legend" if your not at their level yet?

I guess it could only be done if you actually reached F1......

Quote from Leprekaun :

I'm most probably of the first opinion as Senna has always been my role model in racing and I try to understand and look at racing in the same way, hoping that perhaps I might be able to do some of the things he did but I'll most probably never believe that I'll be at his level, no matter what as I hold him in high regard but still, at the back of my mind, the second opinion is back there and keeps me thinking still.

Then follow what Senna did. Buy yourself a kart and see how good you are and go from there. You will soon find out if you have what it takes to reach that level.

http://www.ghibliraceway.com/ - website is a bit iffy. I am pretty surer Rotax has a stronghold there. I hate the thing but that's where you should look I think

I am talking from a real racing perspective of course . Sim racing helps with the basics and adaptability to various racing situations and cars but perfecting the driving side of it, you need to be doing real racing for that.

well, I can't race karts for 16 years as Senna did, simply because I don't have that kind of time if I were to reach F1 someday. Right now, I'm focused on getting into cars so karts are out of the question now.

@Intrepid: yeah, I've been there. Pretty cool facility and track but thing is, $ needed is quite extreme. I'm trying to create some awareness of KF1 or KF2 as they're not as expensive as Rotax. There are some businessmen of a friend of mine want to get into karting seriously and are going to build 4 karting tracks in Saudi Arabia this summer and they stated that if they can find a piece of land thats between 15-20 acres, they'll buy the land the next day so its very hopeful so if KF1 can be introduced in Egypt, that would be great as it seems to be cheaper than Rotax.

u wont make it

delete

Quote from Leprekaun :

@Intrepid: yeah, I've been there. Pretty cool facility and track but thing is, $ needed is quite extreme. I'm trying to create some awareness of KF1 or KF2 as they're not as expensive as Rotax. There are some businessmen of a friend of mine want to get into karting seriously and are going to build 4 karting tracks in Saudi Arabia this summer and they stated that if they can find a piece of land thats between 15-20 acres, they'll buy the land the next day so its very hopeful so if KF1 can be introduced in Egypt, that would be great as it seems to be cheaper than Rotax.

wo there chap. Rotax is expensive, WAY too expensive for what it is....but Kf cheaper than rotax??? who told you that

The level of equipment, testing, data analysis needed in the KF classes is phenomenal at the moment.

Don';t get me wrong I would MUCH prefer to see KFs than Rotax but cheaper it isn't. ... to race at a high level. You could run it cheap bandit style if you wanted,

if you have friends like that take advantage. get yourself into karting! If Senna was your role model.... follow HIS role

I'm glad you made the point that talent is something you can't learn, I remember an arguement that lasted about 6 months with one of my friends about that. He claimed you can learn anything, no matter how you are when you are born. I claimed that you can't teach people to be great singers if they were born with a crap voice.

My opinion is that with a lot of hard work and dedication you can actually learn to be very very good, but without that special talent you will never be the best. It has to be a full package, because people have had the talent and failed to get to the top, so you need talent, dedication and will power. I'm not talking about making it into F1 either, I mean getting out of kart racing and into cars. To reach F1 you either need a famous name, or you need to have bucket loads of talent and dedication, and plently of sponsors.

As for comparisons, I get where you are coming from, you don't mean in terms of speed and talent, but style and approach to racing. I'm not sure what style you match, but I see you as one of those people that need to learn to be fast by practicing lots. Thats not an insult, just an observation, because some people can jump into a race and be fast off the bat and not improve much after that, others take their time to get up to speed, but end up being a bit faster.

I think your strong points are outright speed and dedication to practice, you learn cars and tracks properly. Weak points would be adapting to circumstances quickly and poor recovery from on track incidents.

I could probally be say about Tom chilton/Matt jackson's level in Btcc..

Not really Legends :P

got the backup just need to see if iv got skill

I'd like to compare myself to James Hunt, but sadly it's more George Formby.

Quote from Leprekaun :

does that not defy the concept that we're all human, that we're all the same?

We are *not* all the same. To say that we are just because we're of the same species is completely wrong. It's something that you'd hear from someone trying really hard to be politically correct and not offend anybody. There are so many things that could be different though and no matter how hard you try to change certain traits you never will. It's somewhat an evolutionary thing I think, and while over the last 2000 years life on this Earth has been getting progressively easier people that have grown up in different cultures have grown up somewhat differnetly. Here are some examples:

Some people are wired to think analyitically. Their brains tend to analyse detail more and try to recognise patterns. Others react more instinctively - just think, scientists aren't exactly known for great reflexes, are they . While an analyitical person could, after trying and trying and trying lap after lap hook up just as fast a lap as the instinctive person, he will never be as consistent. Mistakes take time to process and by the time he reacts to one it may be too late. That's my problem in racing for instance - I push for a few laps, and I fall into a pattern,... once that happens I start occupying my mind with other things around me - any distraction really. Then I make a mistake and react too late.... hello, wall. If I force myself to focus on the racing I eventually start thinking about focusing on the racing, not actually focusing. It's just how I am. Sim racing is great for some fun on the side but I know I'll never be able to do it in real life professionally and I'm okay with that.

Another big thing is ability to concentrate intensively for prolonged periods of time - a must in racing. This isn't the same thing as sitting in a class for 3 hours and still paying attention by then end. Concentration there is not completely permanent. In racing you need to be able to conentrate for an hour and a half at least on the same thing and never let another thing slip past your mind. 90% of the time I fail at that too.

Then there are also balls. Would you recklessly push a car to its limits, risking life and limb for hours at a time? I wouldn't... in sim racing I do, but that's not the same because I'm not risking much at all.

Furthermore we all have our likes and dislikes, you can't force yourself to like something that you don't really like. I like racing but I'd never be able to do it in real life because of the aforementioned reasons. Just because I like it doesn't mean I can ever be truly good at it. But that's okay. I've found something that I like and that I am good at and I'm pursuing that.

Back to being great though. Only you can answer your question for yourself. You need to ask yourself about what your character traits are. How you react to things subconciously. You need to ask yourself if your character is suited to racing. This is a hard question. Racing is easy to fall in love with and love is always something people will lie to themselves about. Don't answer me, answer yourself. Make sure it's the right answer. The consequences will be dire.

You're at the crossroads in your life. You need to pick a path. You bertter make damn sure that what you pick is something that you are good enough at in order to make yourself enough money - not a fortune, enough... enough for you and a family. You also need to make sure that what you pick is something you enjoy. Just think, you'll be doing it 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, ~45 weeks a year for 40 years. That's a lot of hours. Doing something that you don't enjoy for that much time will be torture.

Why is it so important to make the right choice now? Sometimes you don't get to make the choice again. Let's say you pursue racing. God forbid (though I'm not religious), you can't put food on the table with it. What happens then? If you realise this at 19 or 20 there's still time to make a U-turn (pun not intended) but if you realise it at 23? Just to put the food on the table, you might end up doing something that you don't like for the rest of your life. You'll never starve to death. You'll just curse the day you got into racing.

Anyway, like I said. Think about it very seriously and answer it for yourself.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I'd like to compare myself to James Hunt, but sadly it's more George Formby.

Should'nt laugh, but I saw this on the related videos.

Quote from axus :

Stuff

Agreed. People are NOT born equal - stupidity is part of the genes. Some people will be thick twats no matter how much money they have (although in general terms the stupid people tend to be the poor people because they can't manage money, and spent it on lotteries or scratchcards, or other "Stupid Taxes" etc).

Some call it elitism. I call it nature. Sadly society has stopped nature from working - stupid, fat, ugly, disease ridden people wouldn't breed if nature had it's way, but somehow even the worst kind scum seems to find a mate these days. And then breeds on a huge scale, and fill their council estates with ugly, stupid, disease ridden, swearing good-for-nothing scummy children.

In an ideal world they'd all be slaughtered for the good of the species, but no one is allowed to say that...

Quote from tristancliffe :

... fill their council estates with ugly, stupid, disease ridden, swearing good-for-nothing scummy children.

In an ideal world they'd all be slaughtered for the good of the species, but no one is allowed to say that...

I grew up on a council estate. Maybe you'd like to call me a few more names just to get your point across?

I understand it's difficult for inbred bumpkins like yourself to type when you've got six deformed fingers on one hand and the other is busy pleasuring a farm animal. And it's probably hard to understand why anybody but the lazy would live on a council estate when nepotism has been so kind to you all your life.

In short: You are cordially invited to go **** yourself.

What was it that Senna once said about creating new limits for yourself?

"With your mind power, determination, and instinct as well, you can fly very high."

That's not to say that just anybody could fly as high as he did driving an F1 car, but applying that advice to the thing you love most in your life will certainly let you achieve a level of success you are sure to be happy with. As for being as quick as him, no, I think no matter how hard most people try they will never reach that level....

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I grew up on a council estate. Maybe you'd like to call me a few more names just to get your point across?

I understand it's difficult for inbred bumpkins like yourself to type when you've got six deformed fingers on one hand and the other is busy pleasuring a farm animal. And it's probably hard to understand why anybody but the lazy would live on a council estate when nepotism has been so kind to you all your life.

In short: You are cordially invited to go **** yourself.

Kev, if you're going to tell someone what a bad bad person he is, please quote his whole post. Taking quotes out of context leads to pointless arguments. The fact of the matter is that Tristan has a habit of generalising things with words like "tend" and "most" and generally expects the people who are intelligent enough to not fall under whatever category he's talking about to exclude themselves.

I never said all people on council estates are disease-ridden etc etc, just that those who are tend to live in them. I also implied that many of the people in big rural houses are no better than those disease-ridden people I alluded to. If you think that you fall into the catagories I described (and I don't think that) then by all means swear at me. Or open your eyes and see the human race go down the toilet - the worst people are even quite nice to talk to in many cases, so you can't go on the basis of if they're friendly or not.

But the point is people aren't born equal. Natural selection and survival of the fittest no longer occurs. Immune systems are failing. Disease is becoming more widespread again. The human species is no longer capable of evolution, and that's the fault of society, and mainly the fault of impoverished society.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The human species is no longer capable of evolution, and that's the fault of society, and mainly the fault of impoverished society.

You are confusing evolution with 'progress' - and you appear to be idealising the notion of progress as a path of infinite length, every step along which is 'better'.

You are talking shit.

As with global warming, I find it extraordinary that any tiny human can comment on something so far out of their understanding it is laughable.

You think in the 20 or so years of you being on this earth you have a grasp on evolution and natural solection which has been happening for over millions of years? That's just arrogance. No one has! We can make educated guesses, but that's all they are!

To then attach this notion that natural selection is no longer working people diseased people are breading... well i wasn't aware there was a mandate in existence for this process!

In the last 100 years, food and medical attention has become available for ALL. everyone is helped no matter what is wrong with them. survival of the fittest?

Intelligence is a part of genetics, and these criminals/scum tristan talks of are spreading. maybe one day we will have 2 races? chavs and people.

100 years ago, the death rates among new born children was very high, because they were weak. Now, because all of our food is readily available, no-one knows how to hunt or provide for themselfs, we just sit infront of computers all day. we have become a totally watered down and useless race!

Quote from axus :

Kev, if you're going to tell someone what a bad bad person he is, please quote his whole post. Taking quotes out of context leads to pointless arguments. The fact of the matter is that Tristan has a habit of generalising things with words like "tend" and "most" and generally expects the people who are intelligent enough to not fall under whatever category he's talking about to exclude themselves.

OK, then let's quote the whole thing and then try apologising for him:

Quote from tristancliffe :

Agreed. People are NOT born equal - stupidity is part of the genes. Some people will be thick twats no matter how much money they have (although in general terms the stupid people tend to be the poor people because they can't manage money, and spent it on lotteries or scratchcards, or other "Stupid Taxes" etc).

Some call it elitism. I call it nature. Sadly society has stopped nature from working - stupid, fat, ugly, disease ridden people wouldn't breed if nature had it's way, but somehow even the worst kind scum seems to find a mate these days. And then breeds on a huge scale, and fill their council estates with ugly, stupid, disease ridden, swearing good-for-nothing scummy children.

In an ideal world they'd all be slaughtered for the good of the species, but no one is allowed to say that...

Yeah, let's slaughter an entire class of people. Great idea.

And actually, yeah I do feel that I'm one of them. Although in my case because there was so much good music written when Thatcher was in power and it's all sort-of romanticised now, so it's like I'm "not a proper council estate urchin" when I actually am. Incidentally the situation today is easily worse because the working class is still getting poorer, because the political party that historically tried to help them has now been shitting on them for 12 straight years. I don't see how it's at all defensible for a smug middle-class rich kid like Tristan who'se probably inherited everything he's ever needed to be sneering at the poor like they're not even the same species as him and calling for a ****ing cull.

it seems Senna 87 has conviniently ignored one fifth of the population of the earth who are living in extreme proverty.

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

In the last 100 years, food and medical attention has become available for ALL. everyone is helped no matter what is wrong with them. survival of the fittest?

Intelligence is a part of genetics, and these criminals/scum tristan talks of are spreading. maybe one day we will have 2 races? chavs and people.

100 years ago, the death rates among new born children was very high, because they were weak. Now, because all of our food is readily available, no-one knows how to hunt or provide for themselfs, we just sit infront of computers all day. we have become a totally watered down and useless race!

And the people like the retard you took the name from is making it happen!

http://senna.globo.com/institu ... /ingles/inst_quem.asp?r=t