Thx for providing the server but you got to admin it or allow banning, the wrecking mod you have is just useless, in fact the wreckers are having fun with it.

It's the most unruly server in the demo list.

The CRC Demo Server is regularly admined, but will never allow Banning and Kicking, as this is against CRC Guidelines.

We do not have a Wreaking Mod on, the current Insim Application we are using does require some tweaking and this will be done as soon as possible, 8 times of of 10 it does its job to defuse any situations.

As for being unruly, its one of the most popular, its hard to get in there sometimes, but when admined, which is most of the time (but we do have lives too), there is some great racing there.

www.cleanracersclub.org is the website if there is a problem with anything, a post there will ensure a faster admin responce.

Thanks, cya on the track.

You must have caught a bad moment mate. ive been in tons of demo servers in the last year, its the cleanest one ive found. Yes u DO get wreckers, but they are dealt with imeadiately if there is an admin there. And as mkinnov8 said, if there is a problem go to the CRC website and hopefully an admin will get to the server to help asap.

I've only been on the CRC server a couple of times as it's been anything but clean racing.

Tonight there were at least two wreckers on when I tried it.

I raced it on a couple of times to, a wrecker all of the times, one came back all the time. Once when I was in the lead your wrecking mod even made me a wrecker and pitted me, because he was standing in the first corner and was blocking me. :/

Imo Fusion is the cleanest server by far

Once again, its not a wreaking mod, it will be tested and it will be sorted out, we cant be there to admin all the time, but i would say 14-18 hours a day there is someone there who is an admin.

Different things for different people, as it always was and always will be, if you like other servers more, no problem, it will give others a chance to get in and try it for themselves.

That wrecker detection will never work, it's a really good idea but it just won't ever work.

Measuring angle of a rapidly occuring spin has, when you think about it, very little to do with the wrecking.

Read my previous two posts, thanks for the support

Sorry for semi-spamming, i did read your previous posts, most of the thread infact, thus figuring out which insim app you're running, and, sadly, it will never work

Perhaps it might be a better option to only have the sever public when there is an admin around, for the rest of the time put it private with info on your main website. I think you did it that way in the past... certainly would limit the majority of muppets

When it is not admined the CRC logo or perhaps the fact that they can see there is no voting, just attracts the wrecker types

I've raced there with an admin and its good, also been on without and it's unbearable another option I guess would be to allow voting when there's no admin present, but if that doesn't fit with the CRC rules it's probably best to make it private or take it down when not admined. That way when people see it in the public list they know there is an admin on site and can go there with confidence

To be totally honest with you, its one or two in each server when not admined who will want to cause trouble.

If the mod used on there works or not, without being rude, there are pleanty of servers that dont currently run it, weather it works or not is an opinion.

Justing a short test tonight, it seems to be working better.

I understand about the name attracting them etc, thats to be expected, we knew that when placing a server in the demo servers. As previously said, its not admined for around 4-6 hours a day, voting for kick / ban although effective in terms of getting rid of people, its not good at calming an atmosphere.

Now it will pitlane you if there is a big (fast) crash.

Hey think of it this way, we are promoting clean racing, dont wanna be pitlaned, dont hit each other, or try another server

Quote from mkinnov8 :

dont wanna be pitlaned, dont hit each other, or try another server

Hmmm, I don't think you are coming across at all well. As the expected users of your server that you put up and are paying for, we are giving you feedback but you don't like what you're hearing. You don't seem to understand that the pitlane mod doesn't know who causes the crash so the wreckers are side swiping on the straight causing a heavy spin into the wall so the mod puts you into the pitlane, a double result for them.
It looks like you are saying "our server is fine, go race on another server", which is what the good drivers are doing leaving the wreckers to rule your server.

It's not my problem, it's the ©®© reputation that's going down the pan, I'd ditch the pitlane mod and use the baseball bat to the head mod instead.

Quote from mkinnov8 :

I understand about the name attracting them etc

Well think like a wrecker for a moment, they want to create as much trouble as possible and cause the most disruption... so if thats your goal would you go for the run of the mill server that is just full of newbies that can't stay on the track anyway or would you go for people trying to have a clean race A wrecker would get far more satisfaction out of wrecking a quality race than just adding to an already shit race I wasn't meaning the CRC name as such but any server that makes a stand and tries to maintain clean racing will automatically become a major target of serrious wreckers and my experience is the only effective way to curb their concentrated attacks is to maintain a server with admin or be on a server with voting that has several other clean races on at the same time so it can be kept clean. Otherwise wreckers being serrious about wrecking will find away to stuff everyones night - even if it is just spamming and being a general pain.

I think what you are trying to do is commendable, all I was suggesting is possible ways to make it a haven for clean racing even without an admin present, sure it might limit people from connecting when an admin is not there but the people that do know about it will frequent it and this will make it a better environment to introduce new LFS drivers to LFS, which is a great goal. Because at the moment unless your already are a pretty good driver there just isn't many choices in demo for introducing people to LFS in a quality environment. I wasn't in anyway saying it was a waste of time but more discussing ways to make it better

At the end of the day maintaining a server with clean racing in demo is a huge ask but if you create an environment where experienced guys interact with newbies it may become more "self" maintained, which makes it easier for you as well as a better service to LFS all around. And to be really honest with you, and I am not trying to be rude, I have no need wahtsoever to go onto the CRC server, but I do like to hang with newbies at times to encourage and teach them what little I know when I find some that are wanting and willing to learn, I find this quite rewarding so the suggestions I bring to the table have nothing to do with me personally wanting a clean race.

Here's an idea I will throw at you which you can do with it as you want, what about having set times for training sessions on the server, one on one (i.e. an experienced driver with a newbie preferably on something like teamspeak) and then with those same new guys direct them to your website and then when training is not happening and the server is being admined keep it public for any other newbies that might venture along, but when its not admined have it private but issue the password for it to promising young drivers and other trusted drivers.

Quote from mkinnov8 :

voting for kick / ban although effective in terms of getting rid of people, its not good at calming an atmosphere.

My experience is quite different from that. If votes and bans are carried out by mature and trusted people they have a far more positive effect than negative. The only time it becomes an issue that creates a bad atmosphere is when the power is abused.

Learn from Netkar - no multiplayer in the demo :up:

Quote from tristancliffe :

Learn from Netkar - no multiplayer in the demo :up:

yes but multiplayer is one of LFS's greatest features and to not allow prospective buyers to get a taste of it wouldn't do LFS any good IMO

Quote :

If votes and bans are carried out by mature and trusted people

Problem is that that scenario is not very likely.
1) Either everyone or no-one can vote
2a) If votes are done only by mature and trusted people, that means
-There are no undesireables on the server
-Why are they voting then?
2b) If they're not, there can be false voting

But yes, I agree that having voting enabled is more beneficial to the atmosphere.

One can't control who joins a public server and hence who will abuse the power. I think a more realistic situation would be to enable voting and let users express their mentality, and have an admin weed out the idiots. After all, the amount of time the CRC public demo server has an admin in it is substantial when compared to many other demo servers.

I find servers with voting disabled frequently have a bad atmosphere or simply aren't any good because there is no way to get rid of hazardous drivers. Even with an admin around s/he cannot be watching everyone. Personally I prefer enabling voting (where it can be disabled by an admin if too many gits show up at once, so that the admin can kick them and then put the "self-moderating" feature back on).

For the record I totally understand all the view points placed here, although as Ive said before, a quicker responce can be found at our own website.

The CRC and its servers have been discussed here at the Official Forums many times before, we are aware that there are those who think the CRC is not needed and neither are its servers, but there are those that feel it is needed.

We simply try to provide a clean, safe atmosphere for new people, and old alike to race in. If someone doesnt like what we do, we are simply saying that there Are other servers that dont operate the way we do, give others a chance at Clean Racing, the way we do it.

98% of people who have experiences on the CRC Demo server find it refreshing to have a server where there is an admin present for 75% of the day, most people are there to enjoy clean racing.

We are not out to take over the world, thats not what we are about, but that doesnt mean that we should stop existing because there are those who dont feel the CRC are needed. (referring to an incident on a server yesterday, nothing more).

People dont like the CRC or its beliefs, fine, thats your choice, we hope you enjoy your LFS experience and if you change your mind, we will always be here for anyone who is serious about Clean Online Racing.

Last time im going to talk about the LFS Mod thats running there...

Its not a Wreaker mod, Pitlane mod, or anything its been refered to as here, its an addon (unnofficial) for LFS S2 Alpha and Demo servers that provides onscreen output about PB's Split times, and other things.

The part of it that pits people is controlled by a setting, this has been testing a little bit and we have found that it is now running better, this still needs to be tweaked. And it will in time.

If a racer if not going to brake for turn one and hits another car, they will be sent to the pitlane, if there is a problem and an admin is present, it can be saved and looked into. If not and both cars involed are sent to the pits, this is good as it clears the track of any broken cars that (frequently) like to get in the way of faster cars trying to overtake.

To sum up, different from what people here like to think and say, we do like recieving your feedback, good and bad, although the CRC Website is the right place to do it if you want a faster reply.

I do understand all the points raised here and we will look into making the server private when not admined. But if it is, how many new people who want to "pick up and play" are going to see the server in the list, think thats private and I dont have the password, how are they going to know to visit the website to get a password..?

But thank you all for your feedback, the CRC will continue to run Demo Servers and events, we will continue testing the unnofficial addon, as we belive it does a good job 9 out of 10 times.

Cya you all on the track!

The fact is people want to wreck in the demo and your not going to be able to stop them all the time, I've seen people race really fast and clean for ages but then just wreck because they know they can and this make it very difficult to spot the idiots.

I've seen a few people mention the Fusion server I'll have to check it out and see what they do.

gAg|CRC admin

Quote from mkinnov8 :

Its not a Wreaker mod, Pitlane mod, or anything its been refered to as here

It's an insim application, people often refer to insim app's as "mods", and the developer of this application himself calls it a "mod".

My focus was on the work Wrecker! Thanks for that.

I've just been on and 4 out of 5 races I started I was hit on the first lap and put into the pits.

Nice try but I can guarantee that you will ditch the pitlane mod.

Demo servers are plagued with wreckers. It's an inevitability. Clean racers, long-term, are I think most likely to upgrade to S2 and leave the demo servers never to return. Dirty racers will never upgrade to S2 because their interest is incompatible with S2 philosophy.

This distillery effect results in demo servers having a significantly higher number of wreckers over time. Wreckers are, to LFS, what I'd consider to be the equivalent of the sludge at the bottom of the fuel tank of a car that's done 100K miles.

Before entering demo servers, you are presented with a screen that bears this out. It's well-written and self-explanatory. Demo servers are what they are, and if you're looking for a more assured GOOD racing environment, the best thing anyone can suggest is to go buy an S2 licence.

If you want clean racing to be your experience of LFS in the vast majority of the laps you drive, this is the ONLY path to choose. If you don't choose it, let's be honest, you can ONLY expect to get exactly what you pay for. If you pay nothing and STILL have a good online racing experience on demo servers, then you've successfully got MORE than you paid for. A plus.

I spend as much time as I can, admining on our demo servers. The rest of the time, they have to manage themselves. They seem to do okay from what I can tell, but obviously what goes on when I'm not there I'll never know for sure. When I am there, I have 2 objectives in mind: protect racers from wreckers, and promote S2 to the clean drivers.

I know our servers will never be free of wreckers, but they're not too prevalent if you issue big bans when you catch them. I'd happily ban a wrecker for life, if I could count as high as the number of days a ban like that needs as a parameter. Anyone capable of malicious wrecking is not a true LFSer and will never be welcome on our servers. As the consumer world moves more towards fixed IPs and longer-lease dynIPs (thanks to the increasing number of multiple-PC homes, and resulting popularity of routers), I predict our servers will become PROPORTIONALLY cleaner and cleaner as time goes on.

Edit: I forgot to state the thing I originally hit Post to say, and that is that I fully support CRC's motives and I'm delighted to see a CRC demo server in the list. It's important that enthusiastic, clean demo racers are always made aware that there is an alternative to being wrecked, and that there exists a community of like-minded, clean racing sim fans.

Quote from o000o :

I've just been on and 4 out of 5 races I started I was hit on the first lap and put into the pits.

Nice try but I can guarantee that you will ditch the pitlane mod.

I read that the server is only un-admin'ed about 4-6 hours each day, wouldn't it be so much better to just lock the server with a password when it's not admin'ed?

admin joins empty locked server, types "/pass" to remove password
admin leaves server full of clean racers, types "/pass randompassword" to lock the server, while letting the racers finish their sessions.

Edit: i also fully support the CRC's ideas etc, but the wrecker detection part of this insim app is more a comedy thing in practise, and in theory it just doesn't work.

sorry to hear that oOOOo. i was in the server admining up until around an hour after u came in, i think u must just pick the wrong times!

Seriously, why isn't the server private with the admin password given to those who join the club. That's how it was back before s2 came out, which worked fine. You could generally always be sure that the races would be clean, and no idiots would join in the middle of the race. Of course the pw might be leaked to some wreckers, then it would need to be changed every once in a while. Wouldn't this encourage people more people to join your club also..