Quote from Crashgate3 :

So this Friday I'm going Go-Karting as part of a work night out. This will be my first time.

Given that I'm fairly experienced with LFS now, how much do you think the driving experience and racecraft I've picked up in the sim will affect my ability in a real kart?

It's here we're going.

One Tip: Try the brakes when you first get going, you will find they are really powerful and because its rear brakes only, very easy to lock up and spin.

Thats what i found the first time i went karting anyway

I really don't think you should take advice - if you've got LFS down so that you can "feel" slides etc before they happen, when you step in a real car / kart it'll all be natural.

From my experience in a rental kart series (one before LFS / STCC and one after) I can say it really helps.

Think about the kart, and just realise it's limits / strengths:
Rear Brakes - It's like stopping a car with the handbrake, basically - you can't stamp on the brakes and expect no lockups / straight braking.
Supreme Grip - Much more than you'd expect if it's a good day, and usually you'll have to really push to get it out of grip.
Low Power - Keeping Momentum is key - don't expect huge powerslides, rather it'll just bog down. Also, you don't really need throttle control tbh - I only ever modulated the throttle about twice per lap when I was at Red Lodge, and once was deliberately to de-stablise the kart for the entry into a corner and the other was just to bleed of a smidge of speed.
Indoor Tracks - Paint Matters! Painted areas are slippier than non-painted areas - at the indoor track I used to go to you could slip the back wheel on the painted strips where the barriers should be (but weren't) as they were on the outside, slam on the brakes and the kart would automagically steer into the corner for you, and made a great show for the guy behind you who thinks your crashing and "avoids" you...

The above ONLY applies to shitty rental karts, though.

Most of all - Have fun. It's only a friendly little race, it's not like paintballing or anything..

if its rental karts you wont need brakes!

you will be surprise just how much you can get anyway with

i say push it as far as you can end of the day its not your kart anyway lol

Haha, It's my spine though...

Quote from tombarlin :

if its rental karts you wont need brakes!

Although he's right (I usually only ever need brakes twice or so on the track) do NOT try it. I used to race on the same track twice a month for about 2 years and only once I really knew the track (i.e. 3-6 months) did I try the "lets not brake for this corner idea". Once I tried this, I ended up doing the entire race trying either not braking (and throwing the kart into the bend with the tyres screeching to hell, which was suprisingly fast) or to slam the brakes on at the last second and to use the locked wheels to cure all understeer. Not ideal techniques, I admit, but when you've got somone on your tail, catching them out with a little bit of sideways action after braking late tends to cause them to lose time. I actually perfected a technique of not braking throughout the entire track (which I needed the next race as the brakes were f00ked).

EDIT - In short - Don't try it unless you know the track well :P

EDIT 2 - The kart with the brakes that were fooked was a totally different kart to the last one, and had been in storage for a while - our team got the "short straw" in taking it, and we did surprisingly well in it. I've never broken a kart (that wasn't already flaming a little or had a slipping clutch when I got in)!

I have a bit of an o/t question...

I'm wondering which braking technique is actually fastest...

Either I stomp the brakes quite late, lock up a bit (:S) get a bit of SiDeWaYs AcTiOn!!11 and somehow seem to get through the corner quite fastish.

or

I don't stomp the brakes as much, and get no SiDeWaYs AcTiOn!!11 and get through the corner

or are both entirely wrong and thats the reason why I'm always beaten by 0.5 of a second?

Cadence brake, throttle before apex, straighten wheel up on exit, just like LFS.

The last 0.5 seconds is down to practice, though - cutting the corner tighter could cause understeer if the kerb has a slippery bit etc. Maybe cutting the corner (i.e. on the inside run-off strip) will slow you down a bit, but that will slow you down enough to take the corner properly, rather than not cutting so much and going faster and understeering?

Variable track conditions (i.e. grip differs accross the circuit) is one thing that's missing in LFS atm...

Quote from jaws99 :

Be very smooth, don't slide at all. I imagine you'll be using slow 4-strokes so keeping your momentum and the engine revs high is crucial

Also, I would adivse you to wear a thick jumper as it bloody hurts if you get hit and you don't ahve the luxury of a rib protector, the amount of times i've had massive bruises on my back is ridiculous.

Hrm.. this is kinda counter to what I've learned through a kart class I sat in on. Aren't you supposed to to throw the kart into the corner (slide it in) to get the nose pointing to the exit faster? This lets you just stomp on the gas and keeps revs up. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Yes i thought the same but i surprose this is a little bit risky if you havent raced karts before.

Also dont be scared of rental karts they arent even slightly fast they are just lawnmower engines ffs lol

Quote from tombarlin :

Yes i thought the same but i surprose this is a little bit risky if you havent raced karts before.

Also dont be scared of rental karts they arent even slightly fast they are just lawnmower engines ffs lol

rentable karts eih? well visit the track what im near of.the karts they rent are in race-use and the engines are raket 85cc and raket 120cc.
but really, is someone actually fearing them?

Quote from ChiShiFu :

Hrm.. this is kinda counter to what I've learned through a kart class I sat in on. Aren't you supposed to to throw the kart into the corner (slide it in) to get the nose pointing to the exit faster? This lets you just stomp on the gas and keeps revs up. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Not at all, you need to be smooth, but aggressive if you know what I mean. You don't want to be throwing the kart round the corners as it will make you slide and in a hire kart, you will never get the revs back up again. In 2 strokes, this is less so as you have the power to make up for your sliding, but in hire karts i'd strongly advise you drive smoothly

Quote from batteryy :

rentable karts eih? well visit the track what im near of.the karts they rent are in race-use and the engines are raket 85cc and raket 120cc.
but really, is someone actually fearing them?

Depends where you go - indoor tends to use smaller karts (125cc 4strokes from my experience round 'ere) - whereas outdoor tends to have faster ones (i.e. 240 - 270cc 4strokes)

Quote from Jakg :

Although he's right (I usually only ever need brakes twice or so on the track) do NOT try it. I used to race on the same track twice a month for about 2 years and only once I really knew the track (i.e. 3-6 months) did I try the "lets not brake for this corner idea". Once I tried this, I ended up doing the entire race trying either not braking (and throwing the kart into the bend with the tyres screeching to hell, which was suprisingly fast) or to slam the brakes on at the last second and to use the locked wheels to cure all understeer. Not ideal techniques, I admit, but when you've got somone on your tail, catching them out with a little bit of sideways action after braking late tends to cause them to lose time. I actually perfected a technique of not braking throughout the entire track (which I needed the next race as the brakes were f00ked).

EDIT - In short - Don't try it unless you know the track well :P

EDIT 2 - The kart with the brakes that were fooked was a totally different kart to the last one, and had been in storage for a while - our team got the "short straw" in taking it, and we did surprisingly well in it. I've never broken a kart (that wasn't already flaming a little or had a slipping clutch when I got in)!

i do this all the time at my uncles track, the only place i every use the brakes is coming of a long straight or maybe just a dab coming into the very tight, chicane/hairpin mix

Quote from Jakg :

Depends where you go - indoor tends to use smaller karts (125cc 4strokes from my experience round 'ere) - whereas outdoor tends to have faster ones (i.e. 240 - 270cc 4strokes)

here the only track is outdoor. i think the both karts here are 2-strokes

thats rare, ive never seen 2 stroke hire karts in the uk or abroad

Quote from james12s :

thats rare, ive never seen 2 stroke hire karts in the uk or abroad

IMO it would be stupid to run 2strokes as rental kart's, engine build costs will be huge over the year.

Quote :

Aren't you supposed to to throw the kart into the corner (slide it in) to get the nose pointing to the exit faster? This lets you just stomp on the gas and keeps revs up. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

That's quite right especially in 4 stroke kart's were it is key to keep the revs high, Its very rare that i use my brakes at the local track, only the hairpin and for overtaking.

exactly 4 strokes are relible and can take alot of abuse and rebulding them is so easy, i rebuilt them all the time

Quote from Rdcranno :

IMO it would be stupid to run 2strokes as rental kart's, engine build costs will be huge over the year.

im not sure is the 120cc 2-stroke pecause it were broken when i visited the track

Quote from Rdcranno :

IMO it would be stupid to run 2strokes as rental kart's, engine build costs will be huge over the year.



That's quite right especially in 4 stroke kart's were it is key to keep the revs high, Its very rare that i use my brakes at the local track, only the hairpin and for overtaking.

www.club100.co.uk - kinda 'pro' rental series. They engines are heavily detuned to make them last. But for a comercial venue bog standard 4 strokes are the staple.

I have seen at some places where they keep the 'specials'. Usually some oldskool 100cc for anyone thats brave enough for a play. In fact there's some at a Lebanon kart track available to hire believe it or not.

Quote from Jakg :

Depends where you go - indoor tends to use smaller karts (125cc 4strokes from my experience round 'ere) - whereas outdoor tends to have faster ones (i.e. 240 - 270cc 4strokes)

hmm here most indoor tracks use 270cc 4-strokes and 200cc, one even has 390cc

i also use to race the good ol' 100cc, it went like hell! I'm gonna buy one again just for the sake of fun!!

Having a look at the site (in the 'tech' bit up the side), the place I'm going has 120cc and 200cc 4-strokes. I imagine it's the 120cc ones we'll be in.

dont worry, i have been here before and the only have karts that do about 40 at max, and if you crash, it doesnt hurt that much (went under a barrier ) so, just drive safely, but do push it a bit =]

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Having a look at the site (in the 'tech' bit up the side), the place I'm going has 120cc and 200cc 4-strokes. I imagine it's the 120cc ones we'll be in.

You'll be in the 200cc ones. At Daytona Sandown Park (where I go), the 120cc ones are usually reserved for the mini people (like 8-11ish years old). When I go there I drive the 200cc one, and Adults drive the twin engined one (2x 160cc engines). Maybe it's different at Manchester because it's indoors

I work in an indoor kart track where our `best` karts are 270cc sodi karts. In any of our karts (few different chassis etc) the quickest laps are always done by being smooth and keeping the engine revs up. At the moment after only 30laps on our current track I'm a tenth off the lap record, set by someone who has done 100s of laps. He is a regular and noticed how I setup the kart into the corners, asked me some Qs and now after a few visits is used to the way I drive our circuit and on my pace.

My advice to any drivers looking for a quick time is to keep braking to a minimum as the karts aren't going that fast so the front tyres usually scrub off enough speed to make the apex. Keep the kart controlled, no point sliding a puny little 4 stroke that weighs the best part of 200+kgs as it will not accelerate quick enough. Keep your steering to minimum, the straighter the kart the less work the engine has to do.

From my experience of marshaling the biggest time killer is people stomping the brakes. They may gain a very small margin in hairpins by going in quicker and still hitting the apex, but by the time the engine winds up again they've lost so much time.

Quote from keiran :

I work in an indoor kart track where our `best` karts are 270cc sodi karts. In any of our karts (few different chassis etc) the quickest laps are always done by being smooth and keeping the engine revs up. At the moment after only 30laps on our current track I'm a tenth off the lap record, set by someone who has done 100s of laps. He is a regular and noticed how I setup the kart into the corners, asked me some Qs and now after a few visits is used to the way I drive our circuit and on my pace.

My advice to any drivers looking for a quick time is to keep braking to a minimum as the karts aren't going that fast so the front tyres usually scrub off enough speed to make the apex. Keep the kart controlled, no point sliding a puny little 4 stroke that weighs the best part of 200+kgs as it will not accelerate quick enough. Keep your steering to minimum, the straighter the kart the less work the engine has to do.

From my experience of marshaling the biggest time killer is people stomping the brakes. They may gain a very small margin in hairpins by going in quicker and still hitting the apex, but by the time the engine winds up again they've lost so much time.

I'm quite curious as to what you meant by stomping the brakes. My interpretation is that you are saying braking, turning in, then accelerating loses too many revs? Should it be more, lightly brake and just turn in to scrub off speed?

And sorry to keep asking this question, but you and someone else have said to keep it smooth to keep engine revs up. Rdcranno however supported my initial impression that you were supposed to throw the kart into the corner to keep the revs up. Again, I pose the question, which is correct? (Or is a case of, there is no one correct answer and I should travel my own spiritual journey to find my own truth )