Er, yeah. Sorry. I meant the UK, not England.
Er, yeah. Sorry. I meant the UK, not England.
Well logically yes, I think everyone would'nt be happy with a stop and search, espicially if at the time there were carriny 20kg of freaking Herion/Dope/Cocaine/Explosive Material.... I don't every see the day in which I may need to carry such sbstance's on myself, or in my car, and I would like to think I will live the rest of my life as a law abidding citzen, as I hope all others will.
So IMO the argument agaisnt stop and search because one day you may be carrying something dodgy is not really valid, and should never be used to counter argue the case for stop and search.
American: So, like, dude, where ya from, er, dude?
Brit: I'm from England.
American: Dude, like, totally no way. Hey, dude! Check out this dude, he's from London!
Indeed, London is England it would seem 
If knife crimes are committed largely by white people, or in areas predominantly inhabited by white people, then I would be very concerned if it was 7x more black people than white people, or indeed even if it was a 50:50 ratio of white to black searches.
I don't think that is the case though. In this age in which we fear being labelled racist more than pretty much anything and walk on eggshells because there are plenty that will accuse us if we even come close, I serious doubt the police would maintain those stop and search statistics without just cause.
The wrong thing to do is to change the way they work because of the race issue. It would, in fact, be racist.
Your not reading my point.
I am talking about it more generally. If you allow the Police to have these powers you will suffer the consequences in the future when there could be a government in place that can not be trusted and by law you will ont have a leg to stand on.
Also, you are allowing Police/Government to take it to it;s logical conclusion. If you are happy for stop and search because you have nothing to hide, then you should be happy for them to put several camera's in your house to monitor your behavour..... and you wouldn't mind because you had 'nothing to hide'.
If the Police have adequate evidence/suspicion that someone may be carrying drugs/weapon then they should 100% intervene. I am not arguing this. But adequate evidence is needed for them to do this. If you allow them to search anyone they want they are not a Police force... they become something different entirely.
Saw that on another forum, I'm now going to go out and find anyone who doesn’t like Haggis.......then sue them for being racist in my presence. It's sure to work...I'll be rich.
That is very true. I wanted to write that but i didn't know how to word it lol, im not very good at the ol' english.
The race card is pulled out far too often imo. Naomi Campbell is a prime example.
Jesus ****ing christ... :jawdrop:
Yeah, yeah, let's all have a good laugh at the "yank," even though he's from the south and shouldn't technically be called a yank.
1000% agree...there is far more 'knife crime' in areas suck as Southhall, Brixton, Peckham etc than in Knightsbidge or Chelsea... the fact is, the police KNOW where the problem areas are, and target those specific areas. It is hardly the fault of the police that these aforementioned areas are predominantly peopled by "Ethnic Minorities"!
As for "The Day that I DO Have Something To Hide"..well if I get nicked, thats my own stupid fault! I wont blame the copper that felt my collar..RULE ONE of any crime..DONT GET CAUGHT!
Don't think that I have always been a fine upstanding member of society...in MY younger years I was ALWAYS getting pulled...mainly because plod knew that I was always up to something naughty..they just couldn't find out what
(The good old days when the Sunday Joint was rolled instead of roasted
)Lmao thats a good one
Show me the names of any of the 18 (or what ever the number is up to now) people who have been killed in london this year and i'll show you why what im saying is the truth. The majority of the crimes are committed by a minority of people if you cant see the facts then your being ignorant.
So forced labour in an organisation that already wastes public money is going to help deal with crime. Righty ho
There isn't an answer. Anything that could be called an answer would ask more questions.
Not all may like it, but installing self confidence, discipline and a role model maybe just what this society needs.
I don't mean serving on the frontline, but carrying out humanitarian work, it may make some of them wake up and see how much of a cushty life we have here.
Yeh it wont work for everyone but i believe it would be worth the investment
Still not getting to the root of the problem. Why are the poorest parts of London populated by ethnic minorities? I know you're not going to say "Because they're lazy", but the point being; it's not really a shocker that the people of Knightsbridge and Chelsea don't go out stabbing people, is it? "Oh drat, I've only got a print of a Hockney, I'm going to go steal an original from that chap Tim who lives over the road, if I can get past his concierge."
Precisely, so don't be surprised that the police stop&search more people in Brixton!!
THAT is what I am getting at!
As Andy quite rightly stated..."The majority of the crimes are committed by a minority of people"
If any of you had the choice of having a night out in Oxford, how many of you would choose to drink in The Blackbird, and how many would choose a different pub? Statistically speaking you have a 1 in 3 chance of getting out in one piece if you are not a 'native' of the area...it is almost a no-go area after dark for the police..although they wont admit to it...if they DO have to go in, they always go in heavy! Why? Because they HAVE to!
Do not forget, this is OXFORD I'm talking about...a 'nice' posh town (supposedly) full of rich white middle-class lib-dem Gruadian & Independant readers, yet we have the same problems as the rest of the country.
Problem with Prison sentences for carrying knives is two fold as I see it
a) They're likely to learn even more bad things to get involved in and how not to get caught doing it..
b) The kind of people that (predominantly) carry knives will just see it as a badge of honor anyway so it's no deterrent.
I have to admit my desparation and frustration at the whole issue leads me to thoughts along the lines of....
a) Replace prison terms with a tour of duty in somewhere like Iraq or Afganistan for anyone caught carrying an knife. The threat of real death, (in circumstances where they feel disempowered - knife carrying is significantly about being "the man" on the streets), might just create enough fear to discourage it.
b) Punish those caught with the person who actually has the knife (say 3-6 months inside), might just start a wave of peer pressure as a significant number of people will not want to "go down" for something their "mate" has done.
c) Stop wasting public money on putting people who stab/shoot/kill commit any kind of violent act against another person in prison. The French had the right idea. Find a deserted island surrounded by shark infested waters and dump them there and let them get on with it. If they want to live by the rules of the jungle let them, but deny them the right to do it here.
Saying those things doesn't make me feel comfortable but I'm getting older and more reactionary each year.
a) They're likely to learn even more bad things to get involved in and how not to get caught doing it..
b) The kind of people that (predominantly) carry knives will just see it as a badge of honor anyway so it's no deterrent.
I have to admit my desparation and frustration at the whole issue leads me to thoughts along the lines of....
a) Replace prison terms with a tour of duty in somewhere like Iraq or Afganistan for anyone caught carrying an knife. The threat of real death, (in circumstances where they feel disempowered - knife carrying is significantly about being "the man" on the streets), might just create enough fear to discourage it.
b) Punish those caught with the person who actually has the knife (say 3-6 months inside), might just start a wave of peer pressure as a significant number of people will not want to "go down" for something their "mate" has done.
c) Stop wasting public money on putting people who stab/shoot/kill commit any kind of violent act against another person in prison. The French had the right idea. Find a deserted island surrounded by shark infested waters and dump them there and let them get on with it. If they want to live by the rules of the jungle let them, but deny them the right to do it here.
Saying those things doesn't make me feel comfortable but I'm getting older and more reactionary each year.
Problem is neither does your approach work. Take a long hard look at the way the Brazilian police act, (pretty much along the lines of what you suggest), and then look at the difference in the level of violent crimes between London and Sao Paulo/Rio de Janeiro
Just to put it all in to perspective. The murder rate in Sao Paulo is 55x higher than in London. That's not total murders it's per head of population !.
Think about it....
Perhaps the fact that theres MASSIVE problems in Sao Paulo (esp. in the Favelas) CAUSED the police's attitudes?
Oh yes, it's almost entirely down to that, (I know only too well as my brother-in-law is a Policeman in Sao Paulo), however it has led to the police being as bad as the criminals in a lot of cases, (although admittedly they are begining to get themselves in line). The point was however that the method's used didn't work in lowering the rate of violent crime on the streets - it just resulted in open warfare between police and criminals with the loss of many completely innocent lives.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/for- ... ice-torture-reporters-200
If in doubt about how harsh Prisons in Brazil are :
http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/prison-brazil.html
You didn't respond to the "forced labour" and "waste of money" part of it, but I'll gloss over that one.
Plenty of other ways of doing that than wasting money (both directly and when people could be in higher education or employment) getting people trained to fight pointless wars that they wouldn't be able to participate in.
Anyone for Milgram?
Plenty of alternatives.
It would cost a LOT of money. What should the money be used for - delaying people going to university, or something useful like the NHS, law enforcement, education or tax cuts?
B sounds a bit sensible, but A and C are not permitted under international law.
Plenty of other ways of doing that than wasting money (both directly and when people could be in higher education or employment) getting people trained to fight pointless wars that they wouldn't be able to participate in.
Anyone for Milgram?
Plenty of alternatives.
It would cost a LOT of money. What should the money be used for - delaying people going to university, or something useful like the NHS, law enforcement, education or tax cuts?
B sounds a bit sensible, but A and C are not permitted under international law.
Prisons are too soft. I know someone who has some time to serve in the next year who is actually looking forward to going back inside, as she calls it, "centre parcs". She'll have access to more games consoles than she does at home, so theoretically she could steal a console and be sent to a place that gives them to her... She freely admits its no deterrent.
I know what didnt work for her, national service. She lasted 2 weeks. A tour of duty WOULD be a deterrent but there is a problem here. It would be a significant financial investment to brainwash my friend when compared to a nice young gullable school leaver. As the army has said in the past these arent the kind of people they want. Sure it would be a good deterrent, but it would be hugely expensive and leave the army with the wrong kind of soldiers.
The army needs fresh young boys with no experience of anything, they're cheap, easy to mould, and readily available. There is no shortage of quality meat for the armies grinder, especially with more and more governmental influence in our schools with classes such as "terrorism" being taught to inform our children just how much they should fear for their lives and be good little citizens and easy to control.
Prison isnt the problem with knife crime anyway, the guy who did me in the face wasnt scared about jail. He was carrying a knife, well specifically a stanley blade between his fingers, to cut his coke. He wasnt carrying it to hurt anyone, or to defend himself. He was carrying it as a tool for an illicit past time. He was a thug who beat on a group of girls and almost got more than he bargained for until he pulled his knife out. Now you can analyse that incident and form an opinion if you wish, but the reason i'm telling this story [in brief] is because I bet it's different to every other story. My point being that there is likely no single cause or reason for this so called "knife epidemic" - which, lets be honest, 18 dead is hardly an epidemic.
I know what didnt work for her, national service. She lasted 2 weeks. A tour of duty WOULD be a deterrent but there is a problem here. It would be a significant financial investment to brainwash my friend when compared to a nice young gullable school leaver. As the army has said in the past these arent the kind of people they want. Sure it would be a good deterrent, but it would be hugely expensive and leave the army with the wrong kind of soldiers.
The army needs fresh young boys with no experience of anything, they're cheap, easy to mould, and readily available. There is no shortage of quality meat for the armies grinder, especially with more and more governmental influence in our schools with classes such as "terrorism" being taught to inform our children just how much they should fear for their lives and be good little citizens and easy to control.
Prison isnt the problem with knife crime anyway, the guy who did me in the face wasnt scared about jail. He was carrying a knife, well specifically a stanley blade between his fingers, to cut his coke. He wasnt carrying it to hurt anyone, or to defend himself. He was carrying it as a tool for an illicit past time. He was a thug who beat on a group of girls and almost got more than he bargained for until he pulled his knife out. Now you can analyse that incident and form an opinion if you wish, but the reason i'm telling this story [in brief] is because I bet it's different to every other story. My point being that there is likely no single cause or reason for this so called "knife epidemic" - which, lets be honest, 18 dead is hardly an epidemic.
Out of interest Becky, when were you knifed...?
Knife Crime
(93 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG