Quote from thisnameistaken :

This raises an interesting point actually: When I look at a guy driving alongside me, it's always reassuring when I catch glimpses of the driver turning his head to look back at me.
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Somebody said in some other thread before that when you see somebody "glance you back" it becomes a game of chicken

cockpit.

normally i like to veiw a car chase-view, but i found i couldn't control it, cockpit i can so....

Quote from Gunn :

**Changed it to "custom" so it is more informative to those who are unaware that a custom option exists.

Thanks Gunn. Makes this poll more accurate!

Wow I did not expect this much feedback. As a new (soon to be licensed) LFS driver, I have gotten alot of REALLY good feedback here.

When it comes to views when driving I need to point something out that I have noticed over the years of driving sims and real life driving.

Driving games that put you into a cockpit where the whole dash/instrument pannel/steeringwheel and roof frame (above you and to your left or right) is visable is not an accurate depiction of what the human BRAIN sees when driving. This is a little hard to explain but think about this. Most STANDARD cockpit views offer a view akin to looking from the back seat if the front seats were removed. Sit in the back seat of a small car. If the seats in front of you were pulled out, there's your "in-game" cockpit view. Not a good way to drive.

One would certainly not drive like that let alone race. Notice I said BRAINS see and not "eyes" see. Pardon a short geek statement here... In the visual "perception" of humans, most of our periferal is white noise as we focus where we need to. Even ZOOM to some degree although our eyes are incapable of doing that. Everything around our FOV funnel in stereo vision is not there as far as our focus is concearned. you cannot make out many details outside of that "cone" of focus.

When driving a real car today. Take note of what you actually see regardless of how much of your real life cockpit is in your periferal. Perception-wise it is alot less than you might think.

What I notice is this. Looking at the road ahead, I see my nuckles on the wheel while not even realising they are there unless I think about it (remember this is my Brains perception of what is in my field dead ahead). I certainly cannot see my gauges unless I look down slightly or most of the rest of the interior. The road in front of me is HUGE from a perception/field of view standpoint.

So IMO it makes sense to move your virtual head forward in the car to simulate that experience. A little dash and top of the wheel and very little other cockpit details within your FOV. Perhaps barely framing your FOV. And just a smidge of hood as you will notice that in most vehicles you do not even see your hood unless you lean forward and try.

But the intruments and mirror are esential of course so they should be turned on to virtual as part of your hud. But I would REALLY like to see a side mirrors option that can enabled where they would then appear in the bottom left and right of the screen and only take up a few inches square as in real driving you do not see your side mirrors unless you turn to look which in Real life is a split second. Can't simulate that on a monitor so they need to be there in the corners all the time. They would not have to be very big.

Just some thoughts.

In the end I REALLY appreciate the fact that some effort went into this games FOV design and it's customization abilities.



C.

Interesting theory cvearl and when I started to think about it I could see what you were getting at. Now I drive in cockpit view (67 FOV), but tried experimenting with the view attached, which I think is what your suggesting, someone else posted something similar previously.

The only "problem" with this view is that you do need instruments displayed but to overlay these on top of your view is still unrealistic, IMO, hence the reason most people go for cockpit view with instruments visible.

Still, interesting theory. In the attached view, what you need is the ability to move the drivers head down and left to see the speedo to simulate the glance at the instruments. Something for the future perhaps?

edit: Just thinking a bit more about the moving head comment - I guess that's what TrackIR is for! Still, assigning a keystroke to move the head would be useful.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

It was me Your reply at the time was very funny

Now I'm laughing at my own jokes

damn...

heres what I see...

I cn be so much more accurate on turn it from this angle....

Quote from Zero7 :

edit: Just thinking a bit more about the moving head comment - I guess that's what TrackIR is for! Still, assigning a keystroke to move the head would be useful.

If i remember right, you can set look functions to mouse, so you can look where ever you want with your mouse and center view with some button.
Dunno is that still an option and as i remember it, it can be little tricky, will try it again when I get home

I like cockpit view, because it's fun to look at other drivers :P and then watch them watch you! :P I use chase cam when drifting sometimes though.

Quote from Fetzo :

well that would be realistic if the drivers are wearing blinders . as i said, there is no realistic view with a standard monitor-setup. everything is a compromise.

Exactly. If you go in sit in a car you do see things around you, but it is pretty much a different kind of FOV. It feels like you see 180 degrees left to right and 120 degrees up and down. The thing is, when people say the cockpit view is real in LFS, it is completely different. You are essentially using a view that is 80-90 degrees of FOV, yet you still see other parts of the car.

So if you go and sit in a car, imagine a 90 degree FOV. Actually, make a 4:3 aspect ratio cutout and put it right in front of your face. You will find that it looks exactly like what Infiniti posted. Because at the FOV you have in a real car (which is quite high), you have to imagine you can only see through the box/monitor's point of view. Seeing other things around inside the car on a small monitor wouldn't be correct.

You see what I am saying danowat?

I'd like to make a diagram to explain it, and maybe take some pics inside my car, but FOV of the camera and the game are somewhat different than in real-life.

Heres more of my views, the only in-car views I use are for the open wheelers like mrt, f08 and fox. Here the other classes I see rear bumpers from (and these days alot of em)

Cockpit with FOV @ 95. It's all I've ever tried, it feels good... so i dunno, I'm pretty comfortable with it. Tho in any sim-type game, I find a chase cam impossible, it's just too detached.

I hear ya. Chase view (known as "girl mode" in my house - no offence meant, chasers) makes it impossible for me to control the car.

Except in Mario Kart

Wheels view. I like my FPS (And now I'm just used to it.)

Quote from Zero7 :

Interesting theory cvearl and when I started to think about it I could see what you were getting at. Now I drive in cockpit view (67 FOV), but tried experimenting with the view attached, which I think is what your suggesting, someone else posted something similar previously.

The only "problem" with this view is that you do need instruments displayed but to overlay these on top of your view is still unrealistic, IMO, hence the reason most people go for cockpit view with instruments visible.

Still, interesting theory. In the attached view, what you need is the ability to move the drivers head down and left to see the speedo to simulate the glance at the instruments. Something for the future perhaps?

edit: Just thinking a bit more about the moving head comment - I guess that's what TrackIR is for! Still, assigning a keystroke to move the head would be useful.

That view in your screenie is pretty much what I had in mind. But with the hud up for intruments and mirrors. While that would be "unrealistic" it would provide the same split second data to the driver that we get in real life being able to glance in a split second. I just find glancing for speedo in a racing sim harder to do than in RL for some reason. LOL so I would likely opt to have the stuff turned on.

But you got my point. I just hate some of the defaults in Flight sims and Car sims as it feels like your watching from a web cam that's been placed on the headrest and trying to remote control the car or aircraft. It's not very immersive.

But that screen shot looks very true to percieved focus in RL.

C.

Quote from Zero7 :

edit: Just thinking a bit more about the moving head comment - I guess that's what TrackIR is for! Still, assigning a keystroke to move the head would be useful.

+1 to that

Also i'd like an option to disable steering wheel display ! I already see my own logiteck steering wheel and my hands, i dt need virtual ones

When you drive a real car you are aware of the whole interior of the car, from the far A-pillar all the way across, you also see most of the interior, including the clocks and steering wheel in peripheral vision, the ONLY way that I can make a driving sim "feel real" is to have the cockpit view.
I may even be quicker in a different view, but that would lose the point of a driving sim to me, I want it to feel as real as I can.

Dan,

But the disadvantage of the cockpit view to show all those things you see in a real interior is that you have to have a skewed FOV to make it fit all on the screen. It may show all the insides like you'd normally see, but to have a real visual representation while in a racing game, you need to lower the FOV and have a limited viewing area.... because the monitor is the limit.

Plus having a lower FOV recreates the depth you have with your actual eyes.

There may be things blocked out or restricted from having a low FOV in the cockpit view, but it is as close as you can get to a proper viewpoint.

Maybe its because I am 6ft 4in and have to sit with the seat as far back as it goes in a real car, but if I have a view with a low FOV it feels like my chin is on the dashboard.
I guess it could be different for everyone really, because like IRL everyone sits in a different position in their car, some people like to kiss the windscreen, others like me sit as far back as possible.
So there is probably no such thing as a "one fits all" FOV setting, but I find Cockpit with about 80FOV and a very slight head turn on steering to be as close to RL as possible.

Dan,

No this isn't about seating position.

As I said in a few posts before this, think about when you sit in your car and when you are at a position that you see all the parts of the interior (A-pillar, wheel, radio, and partial passenger side). Was hard to describe this, so I found the best picture I could find (not centered in seat (and spare me the accuracy)) and edited it to explain the reasons for why that FOV people use that is 'zoomed' in.

Because the monitor restricts having a life-like FOV. Which is why you see that when people use 3 monitor setups, they use a low FOV on all the screens to 'build' that real FOV you'd actually have

Though... I don't think I'd use this low FOV view some people use, because I cannot see the cars beside me as well somewhat. So you'd have to use a high FOV regardless... but doing so would make it far from being realistic. That is why I wanted to argue against saying 'Cockpit view is best because it is realistic'.

Well, it is about seating position, because the further you have it back the wider your vision cone is, you don't see a view like you have shown unless you have serious tunnel vision and/or your chin is on the dashboard.

I made a point this morning on the journey in to work to conciously view the inside of the car as if it were LFS, and I will still maintain that the cockpit view is still the most realistic view you can have in LFS without a multi-monitor or wrap around setup, maybe when there is a way to record directly from your eye it will be easier to show.

But people can use what view they feel comfortable with, I don't think there is any one right or wrong way TBH, but people who are using LFS without the experiance of driving for real should really stick with the cockpit view, for, IMO, and more realistic representation of driving IRL.

Dan,

Quote from MagicFr :

Also i'd like an option to disable steering wheel display ! I already see my own logiteck steering wheel and my hands, i dt need virtual ones

I know this can be done! It's somewhere option/view or thereabouts... You can turn off hands and wheel separately... The button reads something like this "Driver ON, Wheel ON".. I have both on off... so the only wheel I see is the one in my hands

Aghh you're still not getting the point danowat. You are restricted of having a realistic view because of the monitor, and in a sense, you CAN'T have a full cone of viewing range because of it. That picture I showed is just a representation of what it would be like if you had only a monitor to use to drive a real car from.

EDIT: Because like I said, imagine a 3 monitor setup. The MIDDLE screen (as well as the side screens) has to use a low-FOV... and if you excluded the side screens, you'd get the 'real' view you should have (minus the side vision of course).

But whatever, I really cannot explain it any other way. I know I've read something before on "FOV in games", and how it has to be 'wide angle' to let you see things properly... when in fact if you wanted to have a real vision range, it shouldn't be a wide angle view on your screen. But the wide angle view is there because it only looks proper on the screen.

Yeah, its a trick, its a way to trick your eyes into thinking that this 19" Square LCD monitor is the wide expanse of the interior of a car, and it will always be a trick and a comprimise of trying to view the world through a 19" box.

Niether is truely realistic, but at least with you cockpit view you can fool your eyes and brain in a way that is more realistic, IMO of course .

I do understand where you are coming from, even if I don't agree that the way you have shown it is more realistic.

Dan,

i drive from the front wheels, dont think thats the bumper view because the bumper is infront of the wheels so i picked 'custom'.

Quote from Chaos :

I know this can be done! It's somewhere option/view or thereabouts... You can turn off hands and wheel separately... The button reads something like this "Driver ON, Wheel ON".. I have both on off... so the only wheel I see is the one in my hands

I think you cant do this in "custom ext 2" view :'(