http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o&fmt=18

The ZR1 is such an awesome car. It is infinitely better then the Nissan GT-R, because unlike the GT-R, the Corvette actually lets you drive without the aid of some computer.

Combine that with the fact that each new GTR tested by a magazine seem to be slower than the previous GTR's tested as the cars get closer to an actual production car.

Then again, a 2 car comparason isn't excactly fair. The GTR appears that it will sell for a bit less than a Corvette Z06, with ball park peformance (lastest test shows 0 to 60mph in 4.1 seconds for GTR, 3.8 seconds for the Z06, both numbers could be faster but it's a relative comparason).

It's difficult to know if active suspension will allow a 3800 pound car to peform on a track similar to the ZR1 (3400 lbs), or the lighter still Z06 (3150lbs). However the Ford GT, at 3500lbs, is close to the weight of a GTR, and it's 550hp is enough help it keep up with the Z06.

The best normal looking track car is the Koenigsegg CCX, 806hp, 2600lbs. The fastest street legal track car is probably the Radical SR8, but it's missing stuff that most cars have, like a roof, doors, ... However, the Radical SR8's will spend a lot of time on tracks, while the CCX will just spend time collecting dust between cleanings.

The best track car is something that's tough, reliable, easy and cheap to rebuilt, consistent in performance, and allow some degree of setup customization.

I think when a car cost beyond 50000 GBP it already is too expensive to track. I wouldn't track a GTR seriously if I have one because the maintainence might be right at porsche's level. a few laps to flex the muscle maybe but definitely not something to learn driving in.

The CXX, again, way too expensive when you make an error (or it breaks on its own), doesn't make a difference if you are loaded though I guess....

yeah JT's point does seem to make sense. corvettes don't show signs of wear easily if you decide to push it. R35 is just to nerdish just like the ferrari's these days. Chevy might have pulled of a better car for US and euro market although i still think the corvette still is impractical as an everyday car but I think that might be the only con.

EDIT: yes I am awake past 1:20am posting in forums I have no life...

Quote from anik360 :

EDIT: yes I am awake past 1:20am posting in forums I have no life...

Same here.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o&fmt=18


The ZR1 is such an awesome car. It is infinitely better then the Nissan GT-R, because unlike the GT-R, the Corvette actually lets you drive without the aid of some computer.

the Lada 2101 does too, that's why it's much better than any new Ferrari, or Evo X too..

Номерной знак: оху... Продолжение наверное все знают :d

Quote from wheel4hummer :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6mEirkQN8o&fmt=18

The ZR1 is such an awesome car. It is infinitely better then the Nissan GT-R, because unlike the GT-R, the Corvette actually lets you drive without the aid of some computer.

I think you have wrong ideas because corvette and Nissan GT-R are different cars ,each car has different engine type and powers and the most important thing corvette is rear wheel drive and the GT-R is all wheel drive.If you are driving a GT-R and dont want to drive aid systems yo can close it ,you have no any dependence. Corvette has ''American Muscle'' but Nissan GT-R(especially GT-R 34) has JAPANESE INTELLIGENCE.My choice is GT-R.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

The ZR1 is such an awesome car. It is infinitely better then the Nissan GT-R, because unlike the GT-R, the Corvette actually lets you drive without the aid of some computer.

The ZR1 has computer controlled active suspension, with user selectable settings, touring for a smoother ride, and sport for aggressive driving. Both the ZR1 and the Z06 have user selectable traction (engine ECU) and stability (individual wheel braking) control.

Quote from TURKISHPOWER :

I think you have wrong ideas because corvette and Nissan GT-R are different cars ,each car has different engine type and powers and the most important thing corvette is rear wheel drive and the GT-R is all wheel drive.If you are driving a GT-R and dont want to drive aid systems yo can close it ,you have no any dependence. Corvette has ''American Muscle'' but Nissan GT-R(especially GT-R 34) has Japanese intelligence .My choice is GT-R.

The ZR1 does have active suspension, but it's a $100+K (USA) car.

I'm not sure what you mean by American Muscle, but power is power regardless of how you get it, and the ZR1, with 638hp (a now official number) at 3350lbs, is going to be a lot faster than the 480hp, 3800lb GTR. The Z06 is lighter still, at 3150 lbs, making it lighter than a Subaru WRX GTI, or a Holden Commodore (even the V6 Holden).

The 505hp, 7.0 liter, V8 engine in a Z06 is lighter than the 480hp, 3.6 liter, turbo charged flat 6 in a Porsche 911 Turbo. The Porsche 911 GT2 makes 530hp, and at 3175lbs, only weighs a bit more than the Z06, and has the best power to weight ratio of the 911's, but it's a $200K car, almost doulbe the 638hp ZR1.

LoL somebody just got edjumicated.

Impressive run (he probably soiled his overalls when he almost dropped it after the foxhole!). On the telemetry it shows just under 180mph on the main straight - didn't the Yellowbird do 200mph there with 'just' 469bhp? Is this due to the Corvette's massively long gearing?

LOL I just think it's funny that people still think that the Corvette is still 'American Muscle' The same goes for the Viper, both are anything but and this 'muscle' persona around American cars is not based on fact, merely carryover from cars 30 years ago! Get some facts on paper and show me that American cars cannot handle and I will go back under my bridge, goodluck though.

The ZR1 is an awesome car, but I have my doubts about a unibody being able to handle that much power and still have the suspension behave like it should. I know Naykid racing switched from the Vette to the Viper because of the horrible Chassis flex found in the Vette when running GT2 IIRC in the states, which they moved to the Speed World Challenge series.

Amazed on what GM did with the new vette really, it's still relatively cheap and outperfoms most every other 'supercar' out there.

you can't put handling on paper.

Quote from JJ72 :

you can't put handling on paper.

If you say so... people keep saying that but if that was true why would manufacturers AND racers use lateral G's for the level of 'grip' for a car? Why do manufacturers use slalom speeds as an indicator on how well a car transitions? Yes some mean more than others but if these didn't indicate anything why would they still be used in the professional arena on a global level?

I think people just say what you just did to make themselves feel better about their own favorite car, I know I have in the past =)

skid pad Gs tell cornering limits, but cornering limit does not equal "handling". cornering limit is a physical limit that you can measure, but handling is a subjective thing....a relation between the car and driver and their interaction.

a car can corner very fast but also being completely irresponsive and boring to drive, or outright dangerous in the other extreme. a slow car on the other hand can be beautifully balanced, precise and delicate, but just lacking the outright grip.

so handling and cornering limit is different. I guess you got mixed up. and max laterial G does not tell much about handling qualities.



And I don't understand why you think people need reasons to feel better about their favorite car, if you love a car you love it anyhow. If someones can only decides what car he love after going through a performance spreadsheet, that car ain't his favorite car. I think it's a bit stupid when people argue which car is better because it does 0-60 in 0.1 second less or it lap the ring 2 second faster, it's totally irrelevant.

So I don't understand why you use to say things like these to make yourself feel better.

Very impressive, aside from the laptime it shows the Corvette is a truly capable track car, computers never make up for extra weight on a track. Just like previous Skylines, Evos and Imprezas the GTR may be technically excelent but it is boring as hell on a track and is still not going to catch well driven sportscars because with track tyres and good road surfaces there is no real issue with traction in high power sportscars anymore.

Quote from amp88 :

Impressive run (he probably soiled his overalls when he almost dropped it after the foxhole!). On the telemetry it shows just under 180mph on the main straight - didn't the Yellowbird do 200mph there with 'just' 469bhp? Is this due to the Corvette's massively long gearing?

When he changed into top at 175mph just before the crest the car was actually slowing slightly so the gearing clearly wasn't perfect.

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

I know Naykid racing switched from the Vette to the Viper because of the horrible Chassis flex found in the Vette when running GT2 IIRC in the states, which they moved to the Speed World Challenge series.

They're doing something wrong then, all modern GT cars use the rollcage for torsional rigidity, mounting a cage onto a car without a conventional steel monocoque is more tricky but should be possible.

Quote from ajp71 :

They're doing something wrong then, all modern GT cars use the rollcage for torsional rigidity, mounting a cage onto a car without a conventional steel monocoque is more tricky but should be possible.

Your probably right, I think there was cost involved though and it was cheaper in the long run to switch to the viper which required less maintenance (example, the vette would go through pads and rotors every session while the viper would go the whole weekend on a set of rotors and a day on a set of pads, there was more but time was short as we were waiting in line to get a spin in the production Viper at Road America. His biggest complaint was the car making setup changes on it's own after a session however =) I don't know the specifics but I would have thought they could have been able to solve the problem, they are a top notch team in the states.

The viper is a tube chassis with a unibody overlay which is more along the lines they were looking for from what I understood from Dave.

Quote from JJ72 :

you can't put handling on paper.

Then why does nearly everyone on this forum think you can put NON-handling on paper?

Quote from Christopher Raemisch :

The ZR1 is an awesome car, but I have my doubts about a unibody being able to handle that much power and still have the suspension behave like it should.

Amazed on what GM did with the new vette really, it's still relatively cheap and outperfoms most every other 'supercar' out there.

iirc the corvette uses rear leaf springs which are much stronger and sturdier than other suspension types. When used correctly they can handle more torque without damaging the suspension while still behaving quite well. Many people use the fact that it has leaf springs to devalue the car but obviously it is working out for satisfied chevy owners and race car drivers.

Quote from flymike91 :

iirc the corvette uses rear leaf springs which are much stronger and sturdier than other suspension types. When used correctly they can handle more torque without damaging the suspension while still behaving quite well. Many people use the fact that it has leaf springs to devalue the car but obviously it is working out for satisfied chevy owners and race car drivers.

No it doesn't use old leaf spring design. I will hate jeremy clarkson to this day for the goddamn leaf spring thing. The day he learns to properly drive a car around a track will be the day I stop hating him. He's funny and I enjoy the show very much, but I can still resent him. Best job in the world and he can't put a car around a circuit...gah.

it has transverse mounted leaf springs (picture is from a C5 corvette)



Front and rear it has fully independent double wishbone suspension.

Quote from JeffR :

Combine that with the fact that each new GTR tested by a magazine seem to be slower than the previous GTR's tested as the cars get closer to an actual production car.

Then again, a 2 car comparason isn't excactly fair. The GTR appears that it will sell for a bit less than a Corvette Z06, with ball park peformance (lastest test shows 0 to 60mph in 4.1 seconds for GTR, 3.8 seconds for the Z06, both numbers could be faster but it's a relative comparason).

It's difficult to know if active suspension will allow a 3800 pound car to peform on a track similar to the ZR1 (3400 lbs), or the lighter still Z06 (3150lbs). However the Ford GT, at 3500lbs, is close to the weight of a GTR, and it's 550hp is enough help it keep up with the Z06.

None of this matters! They're both production cars. Thats all the comparison is...production cars, and how fast they go around the ring. All the stuff you're saying sounds like excuses for why the nissan isn't as fast, and it doesn't matter! This isn't just pointed at you..and I agree the two cars shouldn't be directly compared, but in a way they should be. I remember hearing also that the nissan used non factory sticky tires for the run? The corvette was on michelins that come on the car stock. However they will be continued to be compared because the nissan just shocked everyone when it went to the top of the list, and now the corvette just topped it...of course the bench racers will be all over it.

It is completely fair however that they are compared, seeing as they're being compared as fast production cars contending for the same record.

Also, there was supposidly a massive headwind on the main straight that day, and thats why it topped out at 179, but you can hardly believe any info coming straight from the manufacture.

what's that leaf spring for...? for the rear axle assembly?

it is used for the spring for the rear suspension, and it doubles as an anti roll bar.

Its hardly archaic technology from carriages or whatever BS clarkson spewed just to be anti-american
Advantages

• Less unsprung weight. Coil springs contribute to unsprung weight; the less there is, the more quickly the wheel can respond at a given spring rate.
  
• Less weight. The C4 Corvette's composite front leaf weighed 1/3 as much as the pair of conventional coil springs it would replace. Volvo reported that the single composite leaf spring used in the rear suspension of the 960 Wagon had the same mass as just one of the two springs it replaced.[7]
  
• Weight is positioned lower. Coil springs and the associated chassis hard mounts raise the center of gravity of the car.
  
• Superior wear characteristics. The Corvette's composite leaf springs last longer than coils, though in a car as light as the Corvette, the difference is not especially significant. No composite Corvette leaf has ever been replaced due to fatigue failure, though steel leafs from 1963 to 1983 have been. As of 1980, the composite spring was an option on the C3.
  
• As used on the Corvette, ride height can be adjusted by changing the length of the end links connecting the leaf to the suspension arms. This allows small changes in ride height with minimal effects on the spring rate.
  
• Also as used on the late model Corvette, the leaf spring acts as an anti-roll bar, allowing for smaller and lighter bars than if the car were equipped with coil springs. As implemented on the C3 and C4 rearend with a rigid central mount, the anti-roll effect does not occur.
  

Disadvantages

• Packaging can be problematic; the leaf must span from one side of the car to the other. This can limit applications where the drivetrain, or another part, is in the way.
  
• Materials expense. Steel coils are commodity items; a single composite leaf spring costs more than two of them.
  
• Design complexity. Composite monoleafs allow for considerable variety in shape, thickness, and materials. They are inherently more expensive to design, particularly in performance applications.
  
• Cost of modification. Due to the specialized design and packaging, changing spring rates would require a custom unit. Coil springs in various sizes and rates are available very inexpensively.
  
• Susceptibility to damage. Engine fluids and exhaust modifications like cat-back removal might weaken or destroy composite springs over time. The leaf spring is more susceptible to heat related damage than conventional steel springs.
  
• Perception. Like pushrod engines, the leaf spring has a stigma that overshadows its advantages.
  

so it is connected to a conventional damper?

front and rear it uses tranverse leaf spring with shocks mounted in a more conventional location

its independent double wishbone suspension

I hate it when people say it's a 'leaf' spring! It is in technical terms but it's not used in the conventional sense since they changed it on the C4. Which they started making in 1984, thats nearing 25 years folks of independent suspension for the vette... Spanks already gave the list of +'s for it =)