Yeah, I want to hear what the dev's have to say about this. And yes, if you use this, your a cheater and an unfair sportsman in my book. Everyone that uses this knows good and well that 95% (probably more than that) of the other hot lappers out there aren't going to have it.
Yeah, I want to hear what the dev's have to say about this. And yes, if you use this, your a cheater and an unfair sportsman in my book. Everyone that uses this knows good and well that 95% (probably more than that) of the other hot lappers out there aren't going to have it.
You realize the script doesn't give you a 1 second advantage right?
If someone beats you by 1 second it's cause you're doing something wrong, or not good enough.. Now probably if the guy that beats you by one second didn't use the script the times would be.. what 8 tenths maximum? Still alot.. 
Well of course this depends on the track but any advantage is an advantage. I'm tied with people on the world record chart... So even if it was only a .05 of an advantage, it's still unfair to those who don't have it.
I just said a number,and if you know worm,that all should tell you the advantage of that type of clutch. read few posts back,he even tested it out.
Your one of the only ones that seem to be able to look at this without seeing the red mist
.Firstly so I'm clear here - I do use auto clutch and I do not use recorded actions (i.e. a macro) for changing gears. I have tried using button clutch back in 2004/5 because alot of well known fast drivers were using it back then, just to see what the fuss was about and at that time I could see there was about a 0.1 to 0.2 difference which for racing isn't that big a difference for the extra complexities of using a button as clutch so I didn't bother any further with it. Using a macro is just automating that function and is a very easy and normal function of alot of game controller prfiler software just like adjusting FFB and wheel rotation.
In my view using unrealisticly small steering rotation like 240deg instead of 720deg gives you far greater advantage than using a macro for changing gears
and by the logic of this witch hunt should also be banned, which btw wouldn't dissapoint me 
As an example using 240deg rotation I can do 0.4 - 0.5 sec per lap faster and more consitantly than using 720 deg so it should be banned because if I want to run 720 deg which is realistic then I'm at a huge disadvantage.
Then we could go on about views, does using custom wheels view give you an advantage over cockpit view? I would contend that it does as you can be far more precise with your entries and exits to corners - and we all know that can shave off many 0.1 sec's per lap. What about real gauges verses virtual gauges? I certainly can read the virtual one more clearly, so that is a big advanatge over those that choose to use real gauge mode. Again the more accurately you know speed mid corner the closer and more consistantly you can be at the limit. Again many 0.1 sec's in a race. I could go on and on about differences.
I can't believe so many believe that we all have a level playing field. Of course we don't, every type of controller choice in LFS will have advantages and disadvantages. Setting up LFS and your controller does have an impact on you ultimate speed that's a fact that reaches far beyound the macro clutch issue. It has just as much impact as car setup imo. We all make choices at the end of the day about our LFS setup regarding ultimate realism verses raw speed. I personally would love to persue the ultimate realism line, but realities of wanting to be competitive and only racing very rarely means I make some compromises in realism for raw speed.
I think the button clutch should be tammed abit (i.e. made slower) or just make it a requirement that you must have autoclutch enabled to upload a HL. But if you think that is going to "level" the playing field your deluded. LFS is much more level than real life racing but it will never be completely level, it's abit like balancing the TBO class
Ok, here's the laps I promised. I recently set the wr at SO2r/UFR with a time of 51.26 (replay attached). Then when this thread got started, Zanini amongst others, obviously didn't like what I said. So to mock me, or whatever he had in mind, he decides to upload a faster lap there. He did the same on SO1/UFR, where I also did hold the wr. His time on SO2r, using button clutch is 51.02 (replay is on lfsworld).
I've now done 51.00 using button clutch, and with some more tries and a bit luck in the last corner, a 50.7x-8x is quite possible. And believe me, I did work a whole lot more on the 51.26 lap than on the 51.00.
Replays and set used below.
I've now done 51.00 using button clutch, and with some more tries and a bit luck in the last corner, a 50.7x-8x is quite possible. And believe me, I did work a whole lot more on the 51.26 lap than on the 51.00.
Replays and set used below.
You say this a lot, but it doesn't really mean much without proof. Wouldn't it be better to let them do a combo, with and without the use of button clutch, and then see how much the difference is?
how do i do this? i mean the cheat... i wanna compare some of my laptimes...
Do i put the script (the one arco posted on "mouse for speed" thread?) on the profiler? and that's it?
Do i put the script (the one arco posted on "mouse for speed" thread?) on the profiler? and that's it?
Download the PDF attachment in one of my previous posts. It shows how to set it up.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=866988#post866988
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=866988#post866988
Well if you dont think having a .1 to .2 difference isn't a notable advantage in a race then you just simply have NO, and I mean NO clue what so ever, of what racing is.
You can change the degree in which a wheel turns... The only side effect is that the wheel will become harder to steer (the force in which it takes to rotate) when you decrease the radius.
How often have you seen an F1 driver rotate the wheel more than 360 or 480 degrees? I rest my case.
As for the views, I think cockpit should be enforced at all times... As for the gauges, nether matter... Most of the good drivers do this by timing, sound, and sometimes feel.
Agreed, but having a different controler and using a cheat that makes the car shift faster don't even fall into the same realm...
The simple fact of the matter, this Marco (or what ever it's called) adjusts the game in a way the devs did not want it adjusted. Secondly, it give everyone that doesn't use it a big (an advantage is an advatage rather it's .1 or .001) disadvatage... I don't see how anyone can look at this as a form of fairness. People kill me saying that it isn't a big advantage.... ANY ADVANTAGE IS AN ADVANTAGE!
:/
.... not many people feel comfortable or get many fps by using it.... or have a good monitor to feel it realistic ... /end Offtopic
EDIT:
@arco: now i realize i have no acrobat reader for the pdf... and i have no good internet so i can download it, so it's there a posiibility to have it on .txt or Microsoft Word?
much appreciatted 
[quote=chanoman315;867135]:/ .... not many people feel comfortable or get many fps by using it.... or have a good monitor to feel it realistic .../quote]
Feel comfortable with what, digital gauges or on board views?
.... not many people feel comfortable or get many fps by using it.... or have a good monitor to feel it realistic .../quote]Feel comfortable with what, digital gauges or on board views?
IMO the sensation of steering, i dont see the wheels (rotation sometimes) and i cant see very well to the front...
As I'm in the OneGP league, I just have to say that the default cockpit view is a bit low imo. I use custom to raise it just a bit so I can see in front cuz for now you really can't see in front well.
As for the topic,
Yes it's a cheat.
No it shouldn't be used.
Yes it's cheap.
No the devs are not doing anything about it yet.
Yes I think the people who use it are just desperate for wins but actually have a huge lack of skill. (yes they get that close with their driving but it takes more skill to gain that tenth without cheating)
As for the topic,
Yes it's a cheat.
No it shouldn't be used.
Yes it's cheap.
No the devs are not doing anything about it yet.
Yes I think the people who use it are just desperate for wins but actually have a huge lack of skill. (yes they get that close with their driving but it takes more skill to gain that tenth without cheating)
why u guys have to see the front? Feel it BABY!!! Dont drive like IRL girls... :P
Btw,would bi nice to see the 2 devs thoughts on this situation:the macro clutch.
(i was thinking they might do this coz the spanish champ has hotlap qualy by downloading HL times via script,as the hungarian champ had once.So whatever is the hotlap time,thats your qualy time in champ.<--- its lol )
Btw,would bi nice to see the 2 devs thoughts on this situation:the macro clutch.
(i was thinking they might do this coz the spanish champ has hotlap qualy by downloading HL times via script,as the hungarian champ had once.So whatever is the hotlap time,thats your qualy time in champ.<--- its lol
)Yeah I'm kinda in the same boat. I can't see the front of my car on my daily driver ether...
Imagine how an F1 driver feels, those guys sit so low they can barely see (exaggeration) the track...
Your right I have no clue, never was pertending I was a guru of racing I'm just an average joe who likes a good battle on the track and isn't too fussed at the end of the day whether I come first or second
but that's just my perspective I know as I said earlier I don't see anyone racing for sheep stations here. Well that begs more questions to its legitimatecy rather than closing the case
In LFS you can reduce the steering rotation and the FFB so you have win/win not win/lose. And while having around 270deg might be legit in F1 LFS has alot more cars than the BF1 why should people be driving the standard road cars with sequenial shifting and 240deg wheel rotation - that is imo cheating just the same as using a macro clutch and with greater speed differences in an average race, but again that's my opinion I am not saying any position is right or wrong, I just think there is alot of double standards on what is regarded as PC and whats not. I would agree we should reduce the difference that exist as much as possible, but at the same time I think there is many more and some that could never be monitored so it doesn't make sense to turn this into a witch hunt but instead keep it a civalized discussion, that is the intent of my posts.
What people fail to understand is that nothing is ever equal, we can endevour to make things as equal as possible and we should but unless everyone has exactly the same physical setup and circumstances then things cant be equal.
What about people that make there own controllers? They could make them with better features which would give an advantage.
That's the point I'm trying to make also. The macro clutch thingy is not the only way people gain advantages over others in LFS, so why is the macro clutch so politically incorect when some of the other things are so widely accepted as PC
I really want to apologize for this... I try not to be so harsh but sometimes subjects, such as this, just let the beast out. Though I don't agree, I should have said this in a more civilized manor...
That really might be a nice add-on to the game to be honest... If you run so many degrees under the standard, your FFB goes up a certain amount. Only problem is some people don't run FFB.
However the radius in which a car steers is adjustable with all cars (without a complete replacement of the steering system) while having faster shifts (this is usually depended on the driver or transmission) is not.
Well that would be like saying that people who have low FPS are at a disadvantage and deserve a pat on the back... The fact is that once you get into a high end level of sim racing (IE world record pace) the wheel nor anything (including this marco) else, other than driver skill, should have anything to do with the pace in which a driver can perform. If you can't compete with your wheel, then upgrade IMO.
Well my response to this is really simple... Some people left foot brake while others right foot brake. If you want to be on the level adjust... Adjusting is not downloading a script that makes you shift faster.
Such as?
So your acutally going to sit there and say a mod that allows drivers to shift faster (THAT IS NOT PART OF THE GAME) should be allowed. Other than the radius of steering, there is nothing to back up your case... Well hell if that's the case why not just start editing the engine... After that we could make the car lighter. Then we could add NOS after that.
The simple fact is, if you allow someone to modify the way the transmission works, then everything should be adjustable, or it is a cheat... No modifications to the game should be allowed unless all driver experience the same results, period.
Aopolgy acepted, I'm not amune to getting hot under the collar either
That's the very essense of this whole drama though, a macro in your logitec profiler is not modifying the game in any way whatsoever (you don't have to download a "script" you can record macros in the profiler to your hearts content), and is a normal function of the profiler. It is merely automating what can be done manually without the macro. There is no hack or code or anything else that inteferes with LFS
As for the such as, I don't really want to go into it as it might give people ideas. But if you know abit about electronics your imagination is the only limit.
Personally I think it actually is similar, because the way people brake (I do it also) in LFS is nothing like you would be able to in a standard car (in many modern race cars you can though), so its just as unrealistic in some cases.
Some people who choose to use the clutch on the G25 though can not brake as smoothly and reliably as those that have a two pedal setup, its there choice though over realism verses competitiveness. Really I dont see alot of difference with setting up a macro in your logitec software it's a choice over realism for competitiveness. It's up to the developers to reduce the advantage, I think it's unproductive to criminalise idividuals for such choices when clearly it's not hacking, coding or using the wheel software or LFS in any way other than intended by the manufacturers.
This is not correct
We have a ~1 hour race every monday, and we use to be about 100 racers, so we have to make several divisions for everyone to race at the same hour and with people who makes similar times
So the automatic inscription system for the league works like this:
- You must have both a HL and an online time for the combination. If the HL it's not present, then your time for the inscription (not the qualy, just the inscription for sorting the divisions) is your onlime time * 2. If the online time it's not present then you will have a total time of 40 hours and then you'll apply for the last division. Anyway, your online time cannot be less than 99.6% of the HL for avoiding people taking cuts on chicanes or another "facilities"
- While people apply for the race during the week (at any time you can refresh your inscription time) the automatic system is balancing the divisions to assure that all divisions will have about the same amount of racers. Must say that if you race one week in first division, the next week you can race in another division, it just depends on your inscription time (HL + online as explained above)
- Monday at 20:15 pm the inscription is closed and the conditions (weather and ilumination) and the pass is setted for the race. At 22:15 the qualy is on. Every racer must enter the server assigned for his division an make a 15 minutes qualy. 22:30 qualy is off, 5 minutes to visit the bath and cigar time and at 22:35 the race starts
- At the end of the race both qualy and race replays must be uploaded to our FTP and via LFS-Stats the results are obtained and published at the web (usually on tuesday morning).
I hope I've explained it clear, sorry for my english
hmmm, and what about using manual clutch, with a pedal, buttons to shift (not H-gate shifter) and having the clutch calibrated so, that it disengages almost instantly when you touch the pedal? I guess that with a little practice its possible to shift even faster than with the script...
is this also cheating?
is this also cheating?
Glenn, the whole point is that the script is external to LFS plus that it gives an advantage. All the other things you mentioned are ingame options
Its not as easy as it sounds though. It takes quite a lot of practice to learn to time all the actions well.
ok, so this way its not a cheat, but then how do you recognize who uses a script and who learned this?
Well that's just it, a macro is using current ingame options that as Choas and Sidi mention can be done manually all a macro is doing is automating it much like we used to have auto blip for example
Is this a cheat?
(625 posts, started )
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