yes but i think my umbrella is cooler, you stop to light a cigarete with both hands and leave the umbrella on the ground which will remain vertical by itself to the amazement of everybody

now i know for sure im building them and selling them, i want a g25, at 20 euros i must sell 15

I'd give up if I was you lerts. It'll be like taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back, you wont succeed.

If you want a G25 that badly, how about working?

Quote from lerts :

yes but i think my umbrella is cooler

No it isn't because IT WON'T WORK.

Quote from lerts :

you stop to light a cigarete with both hands and leave the umbrella on the ground which will remain vertical by itself to the amazement of everybody

It won't amaze anyone because IT WON'T WORK.

Quote from lerts :

now i know for sure im building them and selling them, i want a g25, at 20 euros i must sell 15

You won't sell any because IT WON'T WORK.

You need to take a physics class. Water always tends to occupy the lowest point, you said that yourself. However it is doing so CONSTANTLY as you tip the cross. When you tip the cross at a 30 degree angle, water will be filling the lowest point throughout the entire motion. There is no LOWER POINT for the water to return to that would stand the cross upright again! Plus, all you're doing is allowing the water to move farther to the side it is leaning towards if it flows into one of the sideways arms, which will only ENSURE that the umbrella falls over. A simple cylinder filled with water would most likely provide more stability. Hell, a simple cylinder filled with anything would work better.

I want to know the exact name of this so called force that will keep your umbrella straight.

i said i was wrong it will go from + to x

because the center of gravity of water is lower in x shape than i +

and everithing tends to take the cog down which in this case is the umbrella vertical with x filled with water

the force that keeps the umbrella straight is gravity

Why did you choose an umbrella?

Last time I looked, mercury was bloody expensive, so for the quantities Lerts would need to produce his first 20 umbrellas, he could buy a dozen G25's anyway.

My tip, forget liquid and go for the mechanical option..have a large circular object placed around the shaft of the umbrella (like a bicycle wheel for example, and then have it powered by a small electric motor...Gryoscopic Torque Reaction would do the rest!
If tha still proves to costly/complicated to produce, then just cut off a cats paw and stick that to the handle..that will ensure that the handle always stays pointing downwards. Another option would be to stick a slice of toast (butter side down) onto the handle...that would also keep it vertical.

Drill some holes in the back of a cat, then you can put umbrellas in it and they will never fall out because cats always land on their feet.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Drill some holes in the back of a cat, then you can put umbrellas in it and they will never fall out because cats always land on their feet.

LMAO! Don't say that, lerts will do it the crazy son of a bitch!

Haha. Thats a great idea Quicksilver. I'm sure lerts will do it.

If putting some liquid in a hollow cross worked as you say it does, it would be done. Period. The whole world would be using it in every application imaginable!

Quote from lerts :

you just need some tubes and water, is so cheap and easy to build

Next post:

Quote from lerts :

it hasnt been easy ive been working on this ideas for years

In fact, it is so "cheap and easy" that not only would someone have discovered it by now, but in all probability someone would have discovered it completely by accident... by now. A plumber perhaps...

Seriously, make us a video of this working and you are my new god. Go to the store right now and buy some PVC piping, put it together and show us it works!

Quote from lerts :

but my idea still works you just have to made the umbella like this:

<---X--

force of gravity will keep the umbrella horizontal because its the lowest the center of gravity can be

Hey! This one is amazing. I've tested it and works really fine

I've taken an umbrella, then attached the X filled with water to it and when I leave it alone magically the umbrella changes its position looking for the horizontal line and remains stationary on the ground

I'm just wondering it could work with almost every object :hyper:

Lerts, don't care about them, I belive in you
Trust your belifs and realize the idea / invention

If you put a hose in it you could turn it into some bong waterpipe type thing so you wont get wet when you are smoking your crack outside in the rain!


If you sold these type of umbrella you would have a G25 in no time! :bananadea

lookie lookie!

this is t3h best.

lerts, if you want it to work, do it like this.

or some plexiglas deployment thing.

So basically your saying that when the cross is tipped, its centre of gravity will be lower and you think that that will cause the cross to right itself?

But when the cross is tipped, the water will flow into whichever side of the cross is being tipped (eg. if it's being tipped to the left the water will flow into the left 'arm' of the cross), and this will cause the centre of gravity of the cross to shift to that side, causing it to tip even more!

Just get a reasonably large piece of water pipe, seal one end then fill it half with water and then seal the other end, then try and hold the pipe horizonally, holding it with your hands in the centre of the pipe. The pipe won't even stay upright, it will tip one way or the other because the water is moving to the end that is being tipped downwards and this shift in mass within the pipe means its centre of gravity will shift in the direction that is being tipped downwards.

When the cross has fallen over, the centre of gravity will be lower yes, but the centre of gravity of the cross will not be in the centre of the cross because some of the crosses mass (the water inside the cross) has shifted to one side and so the cross will not right itself.

I find it pretty ironic that you have tried to create a device that keeps upright, but have ended up with one that is very effective in falling over!

Anyway, we already have gimbals (as mentioned earlier in this thread) which can keep things upright, so why do we need anything else?

For something to stand upright, it's CoG must be directly above the base - a wide base makes something stable because the CoG has to move a long way to one side (by the thing leaning over) before it isn't above the base - it is self-righting up to that point.

With your idea it's quite easy to sketch where the CoG will be for any given angle of lean. Assuming the umbrella has a base the same size as the pipes, and assuming the pipes are roughly 25mm OD, then the CoG only has to move 12.5mm to one side before it falls over.

Using very rough dimensions of an umbrella - say about 800mm long upright (with a CoG height of about 500mm), I reckon it will be self-righting (on a totally windless day on a perfectly level floor) to an angle of tanA=12.5/500 = 0.025. Therefore A = Inverse Tan 0.025 = 1°25'.

So no, it won't work AT ALL.

Somehow you need to make the CoG move in a direction opposing the lean angle. Or you use a gyroscope within the umbrella to make it resist a change of angle.

Quote from tristancliffe :

For something to stand upright, it's CoG must be directly above the base - a wide base makes something stable because the CoG has to move a long way to one side (by the thing leaning over) before it isn't above the base - it is self-righting up to that point.

With your idea it's quite easy to sketch where the CoG will be for any given angle of lean. Assuming the umbrella has a base the same size as the pipes, and assuming the pipes are roughly 25mm OD, then the CoG only has to move 12.5mm to one side before it falls over.

Using very rough dimensions of an umbrella - say about 800mm long upright (with a CoG height of about 500mm), I reckon it will be self-righting (on a totally windless day on a perfectly level floor) to an angle of tanA=12.5/500 = 0.025. Therefore A = Inverse Tan 0.025 = 1°25'.

So no, it won't work AT ALL.

Somehow you need to make the CoG move in a direction opposing the lean angle. Or you use a gyroscope within the umbrella to make it resist a change of angle.

Wow. I actually understand that post

Physics ftw!

Someone please, for the love of umbrellas, start locking these threads.

Quote from Dajmin :

Someone please, for the love of umbrellas, start locking these threads.

DONT do that Dajmin..you never know, his invention _MIGHT_ be able to be converted to work on a microphone stand...then you will never have to worry about one falling over during a gig!!

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

You won't sell any because IT WON'T WORK.

I agree with the rest of your post, but we both know there are people stupid enough to buy anything.

Quote from lerts :

<---X--

That won't work. With the liquid in the middle of the umbrella, at the slightest angle or movement, it will tip over, because lying horizontally means that it will closer to the ground than standing vertically. Your 'X' MUST be placed at the end of the umbrella, not in the middle. And if you do that, that larger footprint (and technicaly, 2 feet) of the X will be what holds it up straight, if the feet are wide enough to support it in both latitude and longitudinal directions, not the liquid itself.

Your grasp of physics is worse than your grasp on reality.. which, really, is not surprising.

Quote from Bladerunner :

DONT do that Dajmin..you never know, his invention _MIGHT_ be able to be converted to work on a microphone stand...then you will never have to worry about one falling over during a gig!!

True, it is the number one cause of singer death in the world. Because obviously gravity-defying equipment is sort of hard to come by.
In fact, I have to admit it does happen to me a lot. Suddenly the mic stand will just fall over without warning, even if I'm holding it. I always blamed witchcraft before, but I guess it could be just a marketing gap that lerts found. Praise the lawd for that man, ma life is say-uved.

actually the x and + have identical cog, ive just realized, but the idea is sounded and posible check out this example

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/raaaid/righting.jpg

humm might be more usefull for pens thanks to you i think i finally got it right, at least posible

thanks to you ive just invented the 1st liquid gimball

Nope, still not possible for the same reason. The CoG quickly goes outside the area above the base, it falls over, and the universe attempts to reclaim that objects potential energy.

It won't work. Sorry. If self-righting was that easy using fluids then trust me it would have been stumbled on already - hundreds of things have fluid in them in a similar fashion, yet still fall over.

Quote from tristancliffe :

- hundreds of things have fluid in them in a similar fashion, yet still fall over.

Most notably, BEER GLASSES!!!