Quote from Calvinaquino :

That's a nice, hardcore idea there. but there wont be no distinction about who is intentionally shortcutting or if he spun in a curve. And imagine that, people pushing eachother's to the grass so the others can ge a penalty, giving them the advantage.

Thats my point , Realy ppl need to know how is the Mechanic of the race ,in the 80% of the LFS races , everyone rush and hit other in the first T1 to take the lead and dont care about others , dont have respect and dont know how the mechanic of race works. that mi pov

But I've had to go on the grass to avoid causing a wreck before. Why should one be penalized for avoiding an accident?

Thats the problem i see with some of it, when people accidentally or have to go trough the grass to avoid certain situations.

Victor, the DT thing on FE2 i find it unnecessary, the 2nd one.
Why? because if you hit the kerb you roll-fly-crash etc, besides there are tyres in there, and with the LFS Crash physics you blow suspension...

HLVC + online racing = stupid. Lag would put you on the grass, in the "eyes" of the server and HLVC, several times in a race(afaik, Victor will correct me if I'm wrong). Plus, the problem is only in the chicanes and some turns and can we really turn off HLVC at certain spots?
It really doesn't sounds realistic at all, quite a bad idea in my eyes.

Quote from Inouva :

And is perfect , If LFS aim to be a true Simrace , should work like that
Of course at the beginig many ppl will complay about the HLVC , but when learn how to Race and overtake and use the mirrors + camera ,the shortcutting it keep on the past
In argentina we have a fact
The best Things it´s learn in the worst way

But reality is not black and white like that. Sometimes you have to drive on the grass to avoid crashed cars or if you make a mistake and end up going on the grass or hitting the wall. You don't get penalized for things like that on real races either...
This system is supposed to prevent blatant cutting, not make having races annoying. HLVC only works on hot laps because on hot laps there are no other cars on the track and the point of it is only to drive a fastest possible lap. On a hot lap if you drive on the grass, you either made a mistake or you are cutting so penalty is always on place, but on racing there are more reasons why you could end up there and it doesn't mean your race is over.

Love the idea, just it is going to get frustraiting when people crash into you, you career off the road and then you get the penalty or spectated.

I can tell you are going to get people who do this on purpose, as people crash on purpose.

Quote from Victor :

edit - i've put a list of clickable track links on the lfsworld hostlist and relay host-options page now.

The only one I can agree with 100% is the one in BL1. It's the only one where you really have to drive there on purpose to hit the penalty area. All the others seem like you could drive on them by mistake or if someone nudges you. Especially on FE tracks it is really easy to hit the DT spots for reasons out of your own control.

Here is a blatent shortcut on FE6 - you can gain significant time even with the tyres in the way.

I think, guys, we have to balance possible time gain from cutting a corner, and the repercussions of doing so, as well as the location. It's all very well saying "Yesss lets slap these spec zones here, here and here" without thinking about it.

Take "word."'s example. Doing as described would either slow you down so much that the advantage was negated, or you'd wreck your car, crash or spin.
(does happen with the tyre barriers)

After all, that is a rally cross track. The idea is you can use the whole 'road', off track sections included. Have you even actually raced on that circuit with a field of 25 drivers? It's not pretty, I can guarentee you, and you'd crash the server with "Player X has been sent to spectate"

Taking "scipy"'s example, doing as expected would get such an amout of dirt on your tyres that you'd lose so much grip for the harpin at the end of the straight, or the chicane, depending on which roation you are on. If you outbraked yourself going into it, you have nowhere else to go, and be sent straight to spec. This is, of course, if you don't go flying over the ramps I mean curbs, either flying off into the adjacent gravel pit, or having gained some form of suspension damage.

Either way, the time you 'could' have gained would be negated by the result of doing so, whether this be damaging your car or getting dirt on your tyres.

I can't help feeling that once 'if' this system is fully implemented, everyone will have to RE-LEARN tracks, which may have already taken them months to perfect. I'm not saying people 'cut' tracks to gain time, but with the result of running wide on a corner meaning a free trip to specatate, you have to adjust your driving suitably. What's more, the idiotic drivers among us will end up pushing leading drivers into these zones for "l0lz".

Obviously I'm not telling you how to run your game, just think about whether certain places actually need it. The only place, in my mind, is that section of the BL circuit, and yet it should only be activated above 50Mph/80Kmph.

That's why you make only the glaringly obvious ones insta-spec and the others give a warning/penalty first.

Here's the FE1 shortcut. When you drive that config online everyone goes as near the tires as possible and as a result the tires disappear at some point and then people cut deeper. I'd guess it's the same in rev config as well. Although it needs to be said that it is easy to make a mistake ending up on that bit of grass, or be forced there because of other car...

^ That's unfortunately one example where a penalty can be too easily applied to someone having an accident. The InSim Relay anti-shortcut is a nice and quick solution for glaringly obvious shortcuts, but cannot be applied to places with a high chance of an accident causing the cutting, even if it's an obvious shortcut to the human observer.

For a system to work pretty foolproof you need to define the cut areas like now and then later on the track (out of crash-range, so you can't slide into it after an accident) have a point of reference to check whether the cutter has actually gained any time. Someone who has crashed or had to evade will obviously not reach that point so quickly that he'd get any advantage from it.

Isn't a short cut classed as when you are all four wheels of the track? As long as two wheels are on the road then technically it isn't a short cut. Please, correct me if i am wrong.

Yep. Though for example in the FE1 shortcut above people routinely go off track with all four wheels, especially once the tyres have been bumped away/vanished.

Yea i know what you mean, i have to admit i take that short cut but make sure i still have two wheels on the track so no one can call me a cheat

On some occasions this whole anti-shortcutting thingie feels more like fixing the errors of the tracks by the hard way. Instead of fixing the actual cause of the error, like that Fe1 corner complex, the BL1 "hole on the wall" or the FE4 sand-shortcut, a more complex system is put into use with the new possible errors and short comings it may have, like the added randomness scripts and triggers always produce.

90% of these shortcuttings would most probably be easier to fix by making a list of those errors and sending that list to that person who does 3d for living...?

Remember guys that non-Blackwood tracks can be edited by Vic for anti-cutting, they don't have to be on the relay.

noone can read here can they?

Quote from Victor :

noone can read here can they?

So it would seem. Autocross objects on demo servers, as you have said many times, doesn't work!

Quote from Victor :

noone can read here can they?

Demo racers havnt got BL2R

Quote from J@tko :

Demo racers havnt got BL2R

wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't tried it myself...
since when aren't demo users allowed to go reverse?

Since one of the latest patches they only have BL1 and BL2. The reverse configs have been disabled, probably due to the demo users having more than enough content anyway.

As the admin of two endurance series, I'd like to see the penalties for these shortcuts be a little more customizable.

For instance, the first round of the Masters of Endurance season is at KY3, whose chicane problem has been discussed to death. It'd be great if we could penalize with a DT for EVERY time a car cuts that chicane (after the first warning) rather than warning->DT->spectate. Another option would be to escalate the penalty: warning->DT->SG->30s->45s, and then 45s thereafter.

In a 12 hour race having a car spectated after the 2nd or 3rd infraction isn't an ideal solution.

Quote from deadwolfbones :

as The Admin Of Two Endurance Series, I'd Like To See The Penalties For These Shortcuts Be A Little More Customizable.

+1