Hi all.
I'm very new to driving sims, although I have GTR2 too, but never really dedicated much time to it...might change my mind.
I'm a so-called "hardcore" flight-simmer, and I have joystick, throttle, rudders, TIR4...all that sort of things.
But I miss a steering wheel, and I haven't my own pc here !

Now, while recovering from a long surgical adventure, I started d'loading demos of race sims, and eventually found LFS. I ran the demo for a month and then bought S2. Wow, I really like it !
My "problem" (must be a common one) is that I drive with mouse and keyboard, auto shifting, brake help on. I started switching off the driving line help, so I don't focalize on it (Blackwood of course).
I'm not asking you to check my hotlaps and see where I can save some seconds on this or that corner (I'm not that good yet). I'm still trying to grasp all the technicalities and lingo of driving world, which is all very new to me. I've read all the stickies about "clean driving", T1 surviving, all that, and I'm trying to apply it to my drivingstyle.

Just tell me please if there are big obvious DO's and DONT's about keyboard driving, like "you absolutely have to manually change gear if you want to improve your times", or "switch off/on brake help"...

Thanks.

[OFFTOPIC=Sorry]can i just ask which other race sims youve downloaded?

thanks[/OFFTOPIC]

hi, and welcome to LFS. i am a wheel user but this advice should also work with kb drivers. slow in=fast out.
also let me be the first to reccomend a wheel. GET A WHEEL!!!!! lol
but seriously bud, i've used them all. kb+mouse. joystick, joypad and finally a wheel. although you can get the job done with all of the above, but to get the best out of this sim you really should think about getting a wheel.

@ Dac
I started with Trackmania Nations (or whatever it is called). Did you say arcade ?
Then I tried different "more serious" demos, RBR, BMW M3 Challenge, XpandRally, some SimBin demos (but kept only RaceDriver Civic), some "must have" GP, or was it GT Legends...

I have an old laptop Toshiba Satellite, which my sister gave me for these "hospital months", and the majority of these sims don't even run, so I just deleted them all and remained with LFS, that runs well. I can't wait to get back home and try it there.

@ dadge
I'm sure you're right about getting a wheel. That's why I have a serious HOTAS setup for flying, I know what you mean. I'm afraid I am short of physical space on the desk...
Thanks for slow in=fast out. I was starting to get to the same conclusion by myself last night (please don't laugh. I'm a serious noob!).

If I was stuck in a hospital bed with a laptop an LFS I'd definately ask someone to bring me in an analog gamepad

I was hospital/bed bound for a month back in the 80's and all I had was a radio and crappy tv soaps For years afterwards the hit of that time "red red wine..." or some such nonsense drove me nuts everytime I heard it as I was forced to listen to it six times a day or more it seemed lol hope all goes well for you an you don't end up with similar mental trauma

If you haven't already seen them, I can recommend both the basic and advanced driving guides from the LFS manual.

Unfortunately I can't give you tips on KB driving itself, other than practice, practice, practice. Seriously quick times are possible with the KB and the same general 'how to race' rules apply independently of the used controller, however KB driving might require slightly different car setups to deal with its shortcomings. In general I'd also say you're at a disadvantage in actual races, since in non-hotlapping situations you often need to react quickly (to an unforeseen move by a competitor, for example) which isn't always possible with a keyboard.

Quote from dadge :

hi, and welcome to LFS. i am a wheel user but this advice should also work with kb drivers. slow in=fast out.
also let me be the first to reccomend a wheel. GET A WHEEL!!!!! lol
but seriously bud, i've used them all. kb+mouse. joystick, joypad and finally a wheel. although you can get the job done with all of the above, but to get the best out of this sim you really should think about getting a wheel.

I take it your advising a wheel? :P

One thing that is helping me to improve my speed and time is using hosts that have LFSlapper installed, Its a great way to keep track of how your doing and to compare to other drivers.

Quote from Psysim :

...One thing that is helping me to improve my speed and time is using hosts that have LFSlapper installed...

How can I see if the host has LFSlapper or not ?? Is there a flag on the multiplayer screen ?
I noticed some servers showing more info than others, both when you first connect and at the end of each lap. Is it that ?

Only one way, connect to a host and see if its got lapper. I can only assume you know whats displayed on a host with lapper? Sorry if its not much help but thats the best I can offer.

Can't you use your flight sim equipment for LFS? Anything's better than keyboard imo.

Steps.
1. Find a computer parts wholesaler
2. Make sure they sell G25 wheels.
3. Purchase.
4. ENJOY

seriously tho, g25 is the best bang for buck you'l get for this game. They are listed as being $500 on logitechs website, but i got mine about 2 weeks ago for almost half that (legit, parts wholesaler) I used to drive with a FFB joystick (MS FFB2) but haven't looked back since i changed to the wheel. It adds another layer of immersion to the game.

Quote from senn :

Steps.
1. Find a computer parts wholesaler
2. Make sure they sell G25 wheels.
3. Purchase.
4. ENJOY

seriously tho, g25 is the best bang for buck you'l get for this game. They are listed as being $500 on logitechs website, but i got mine about 2 weeks ago for almost half that (legit, parts wholesaler) I used to drive with a FFB joystick (MS FFB2) but haven't looked back since i changed to the wheel. It adds another layer of immersion to the game.

DFP is good too, if u dont have a lot of $$$'s.

yeah i used to have a DFP buttt i much prefer the g25, the FFB is light years ahead, it just feels more direct *shrug*

ok, point being missed in this thread me finx. the guy is in hospital. do you think they will allow a G25 or a full flight control system in there?
get a usb duel shock pad. if you get a ps2 to usb converter then you can use a ps2 pad which tbh is probs one of the best you can get.

I didn't see him mention a hospital, but if you say so. Doesn't look like there are any options but mouse and keyboard, or maybe a joystick of some sort.

I think he meant this:

Quote from Ripley :

I have an old laptop Toshiba Satellite, which my sister gave me for these "hospital months"

I use a Toshiba Satellite P100-434 as a Computer and use a Logitech Extreme3DPro Joystick, gets me along fine. Wheels are just that bit too expensive and big for my room, and cant really be used for much else...

Quote from Psysim :

...I can only assume you know whats displayed on a host with lapper?...

If I knew, I wouldn't have asked...

Quote from dadge :

ok, point being missed in this thread me finx. the guy is in hospital. do you think they will allow a G25 or a full flight control system in there?

Thanks all for the replies.
I said "hospital months" thinking more about my long recovery.
I'm no more in the hospital now luckily, but I still have the laptop my sister gave me back then. I am at my parent's house and I still need their help, can't go back in my apartment yet, so it's still a "kind" of hospitalization...

...And speaking about wheels, what do you think of the new Logitech Driving Force GT ? What is your experience with Logitech software support ? Do you ever think that all those buttons will work on the pc one day ?
I saw the G25, nice beast!

Quote from CasseBent :

Can't you use your flight sim equipment for LFS? Anything's better than keyboard imo.

I tried driving in GTR2 with the joystick long ago, couldn't really manage it well...I think I'll give it a shot again...

the DFP (or DFGT as it's also known as) is a very good wheel. and all the buttons are assignable.

Anything analog would do you good and since you have a stick and you're most likely used to it, that might be a good solution. Plus it's cheap
It probably comes down to practice, there are some good racers that use a joystick.

I used a mouse for 4 years, I liked my mouse setup..

I used my scroll up for downshift and scroll down for upshift. I also used "C" for clutch (I used no clutch help).

If you mess around with the "center steer reduction" (I think I had mine set around 77ish) It should give you a better feel for the steering.

Also in view options I liked "move view with animation". There also is another option that turns the view while your turning so it was "move view with the X axis"

I'm just going off of memory from some settings I liked to personalize LFS to my likings that I've found over the years.

If you can, get a wheel. Period.


If you can't for whatever reason, playing with keyboard+mouse is not the end of the world really. If you're willing to try, check out this tips:

1) first thing you might want to try is decrease the button control rate (under options/controls). That will give you a more smooth braking/acceleration, but also increase your braking distances a bit.
2) I find more comfortable to have brake, gas and clutch on keyboard and gears on mouse buttons. Keeping a mouse button pressed for long periods of time will stress your hand much more (at least on my mouse).
3) Play around with the steer centre reduction (again under options/controls) untill you're comfortable with it. Having a higher value means the mouse moviment will be slower when the wheel is near the centre (more precision when you're going straight, ie. at high speeds). At lower values, you can turn faster but with less precision. Zero means no effects on mouse moviment speed.
4) As AndroidXP said, you'll probably need slightly different car setups to deal with the lack of brake/gas axis. So if you try a "world record" setup only to find you can't drive it, don't worry. There are much more friendly setups around. Have a look at the car setups section or ask around, I'm sure people will be happy to share theirs.

Hope this helps.

Edit: ghost racer beat me at some points.

Quote from dadge :

the DFP (or DFGT as it's also known as) is a very good wheel. and all the buttons are assignable.

The Driving Force GT is very different from the pro.