hankstar firemen get paid a LOT of money. In san francisco a new fireman will get 100k plus benefits in just his first year. Police in the ghetto across the bay, Oakland, get 60-100k plus benefits for them and their entire direct family. They get paid these hefty sums because their jobs are extremely dangerous and they have a fair chance of dying. My teacher who has been teaching for 20 years gets somewhere in between those two (but the teacher's union takes up to 1/3 of that) I don't see how socialism would pay them any better than that.

Maybe those salaries are just for californians, I don't know about other states.

Quote from mrodgers :

Where I live, the fire department is completely funded by donations and staffed by well trained volunteers. Weekly Bingo games, 50/50 raffles, personal donations, and (here's the American culture coming) gun raffles are what funds our fire departments. It costs the tax payers nothing and it costs you nothing unless you volunteer your donations or participate in the fund raising events.

The US isn't all big cities and big money, you know....

No, it's got some seriously third-world areas too. I lived in a couple of places that had volunteer fire departments. Even lived in a couple of places where they didn't have a 911 service. What the **** are you paying taxes for exactly?

Not that it isn't the greatest country in the world or anything.

Quote from mrodgers :

It costs the tax payers nothing and it costs you nothing unless you volunteer your donations or participate in the fund raising events.

The US isn't all big cities and big money, you know....

Point being that they'll fight a fire, no matter whose property it is, not according to an insurance policy associated with that property. It's socialised firefighting, effectively.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Not that it isn't the greatest country in the world or anything.

Bwahahaha! WAY too familiar!!! LOL

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Not That It Isn't The greatest Country In The World Or Anything.

lol

Quote from mrodgers :

Where I live, the fire department is completely funded by donations and staffed by well trained volunteers. Weekly Bingo games, 50/50 raffles, personal donations, and (here's the American culture coming) gun raffles are what funds our fire departments. It costs the tax payers nothing and it costs you nothing unless you volunteer your donations or participate in the fund raising events.

The US isn't all big cities and big money, you know....

Heh, I'm aware of that (who do you think keeps voting Republican, apart from all the rich guys in the cities?). I grew up in the country in part which is very vulnerable to bushfires and it's all volunteer firefighters out there. I think volunteer firefighters illustrate very well that people who do care will do good things for nothing at all, let alone for little pay.

Flymike, I was making a general point about public servants. Your fireys might indeed get a better deal than ours in Oz. But here in Melbourne, our cops almost went on strike not so long ago (because they're overstretched and underpaid), our nurses actually did strike (and won themselves better pay & conditions) and our public school teachers nation-wde are fighting a near-constant battle for better pay - the ones in my state aren't paid at the same level as the other states.

Quote from Hankstar :

Those private Roman fire brigades would turn up to a burning building and cheerfully offer to put the fire out - for a hefty price. If the building owner couldn't pay, the building simply went up in smoke.

After some rummaging around it turns out they weren't privately owned. They were state-run and funded by an increase on the tax put on the sale of slaves. Pretty much like it works today.

But anyhow, that's beyond the point that was trying to be muddled by pointing out the muddled point that was made about something.

Quote :

(but the teacher's union takes up to 1/3 of that) I don't see how socialism would pay them any better than that.

What part of a union isn't socialist exactly ?

Our firemen get paid quite a lot of money, about half again what I get paid and i'm above not just the average model wage but the average meen wage too. YAY for unions and general strikes!

Because of this we cannot sell our house, people don't wanna spend much money.

Can anyone explain why the pound is still falling compared to the dollar? I know our economy is in a bit of a state, but theirs seems much worse.

It's making all the computer hardware I want to buy more expensive....

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Can anyone explain why the pound is still falling compared to the dollar? I know our economy is in a bit of a state, but theirs seems much worse.

It's making all the computer hardware I want to buy more expensive....

Tell me about it. I was about to order some more musical boxes of tricks from my electronics wizard in Nebraska and I've had to put them on hold.

Because I prime minister has not quite understood that when the economy is shot to pieces you dont go "spend spend spend" because you know that unless you say something positive you WILL be voted out because everyone hates your guts because you are not only unelected, unpopular, slimey and useless but also after years of our economy being strong you "invested prudently" (ie: didnt spend on needed services) and now the economy is shot you are trying to buy votes with massive over investment and knee-jerk fixes to all the crap you didnt invest in.

In short, our ex-chancellor did a crap job and now he's the unelected PM of our so-called democratic country we're really screwed.

EDIT: But don't worry, the 13 independent quango's set up by the government to find the answer to this question will return their verdict in 2012 and then everything will be fine.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Can anyone explain why the pound is still falling compared to the dollar? I know our economy is in a bit of a state, but theirs seems much worse.

It's making all the computer hardware I want to buy more expensive....

There economy MAY seem a lot worse because of the enormous figures involved, but if you calculate the deficiency per capita and take into account the GND, then you will see that WE are in a MUCH worse state than they are.
Dear Uncle Gordon has been borrowing money hand-over fist from the IMF (read: USA!) for years to give us all a false "feel-good" factor, he has driven the people to borrow more than they could afford by making credit easy to get hold of, which has led to higher prices...He has let the fat-cat bankers make grotesque amounts in bonuses for helping us get into debt...
Because of the global nature of the US markets, we feel it when their big investors come unstuck, but the average American couldn't give two farts about Bradford & Bingley or Northern Rock.
I blame Brown for EVERYTHING!!!

Example of "Noo Labour" over-spending...just read the Guardian Sits Vac page...always a giggle: "InterRacial Stress Advisor for xxxxx dept in Westminster...25hr week, £84000 p/a" etc etc. Inventing stupid jobs at stupid salaries so that it gets another bleeding heart liberal off the dole queue.

Quote from mrodgers :

Where I live, the fire department is completely funded by donations and staffed by well trained volunteers. Weekly Bingo games, 50/50 raffles, personal donations, and (here's the American culture coming) gun raffles are what funds our fire departments. It costs the tax payers nothing and it costs you nothing unless you volunteer your donations or participate in the fund raising events.

The US isn't all big cities and big money, you know....

It's the same on my side of the state, too. EMS out here is also made up of volunteers for the most part.

You can't forget the firemans carnival, and the turkey/meatloaf/spaghetti dinners.

There's a lot of pride in our volunteer services.:thumb3d:

Quote from Becky Rose :

now he's the unelected PM of our so-called democratic country we're really screwed.

We've never elected a Prime Minister. We elect the party and they choose the PM.

Quote from SamH :

I don't think it's possible to prevent recession in the US, since the US is already in recession and has been for some time now. The only thing to do is try and conceal the severity of the recession by all political means available - something the Republicans are failing at with style as I type.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a run on a lot of US banks, many of which are far too small to be able to inspire confidence in their patrons. The UK's Northern Rock embarassment may be seriously overshadowed in the next few weeks. Hopefully instead we'll see more redistribution of wealth across banks, as people distribute their savings in $100K chunks to FDIC member banks. Any US bank (if there are any) that is not FDIC-insured will prolly plop very soon.

Since the Amero is only theoretical (fortunately!), Canada's economy isn't intrinsically as at risk as it could have been. There is a lot of trade between the US and Canada that will falter, and that's obviously not good, but the plus side is that the US could finish up being to Canada what China has been to the US - a source of quality goods at relatively low prices. With the US economy in freefall, you may wanna shore up the border patrols with the US though.. or ditch socialised medicine and make yourself look like a dump, else the yanks will be a-coming.

Sam you read my mind!! I bet all the Gas and resources that we have are going to look tastier and tastier to the US in the years to come. Don't be suprised one day if you see us being helped (invaded) by the US Army for our own good
Our Weapons of Mass Destruction are hiding in our igloos. (We like to call them Doobies, Spliff, Joints, Weed)

Quote from Toddshooter :

Our Weapons of Mass Distraction are hiding in our igloos. (We like to call them Doobies, Spliff, Joints, Weed)

Corrected that for you.

Quote from SamH :

the US is already in recession and has been for some time now

No; a "recession" is defined (in the USA, anyway) as "two consecutive quarters of negative [GDP] growth."

The last quarter of last year, GDP growth was down a bit (about -0.2%, as I recall), after pretty decent growth (3-4%), consistently for several years. The first quarter of this year, growth was up, about 2% (iirc), and the second quarter, up by about 3.3%.

So, however much people may want to complain about the U.S. economy (particularly, for political purposes), the fact is that there still has not been any "recession."

It is possible that the current mortgage/bank problem may result in a recession, but I don't know what the GDP has been doing, during the third quarter of this year, and even if there has been negative growth during the third quarter, there would also need to be negative growth during the fourth quarter, in order to be able to state accurately that the U.S. economy is "in recession;" such information will not be available until the end of this year.

the plan was aproved now

Quote from chanoman315 :

the plan was aproved now

Bunch of wimps. I did have a feeling it would be approved at some stage, but i thought it would probably have to be slid in under the carpet so to speak.

Guess all that scaremongering did the trick. And as usual it'll be the average man on the street that'll have to foot the bill.

If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago you will have $49.00 today.
If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in AIG one year ago you will have $33.00 today.
If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Lehman Brothers one year ago you will have $0.00 today.
But if you had purchased $1,000 worth of beer one year ago drank all the beer then turned in the aluminium cans for recycling refund you will have received $214.00.

Based on the above the best current investment plan is to drink heavily & recycle. It is called the 401-Keg.

A recent study found that the average American walks about 900 miles a year. Another study found that Americans drink on average 22 gallons of alcohol a year. That means that on average Americans get about 41 miles to the gallon!

.

@P5YcHoM4N - That is some of the best logic I've heard, however since I don't drink alcohol I will change the beverage to Pepsi, and I probably (definitely) drink more than 22gallons of it a year... I do believe anyways (The average American walks 900miles a year? I find that hard to believe, I guess it might be possible, but wow... 900mi for some people seem like an awful lot...)

it also means that the average american gets a far better mileage than his average american car

Meh, the average American car would be less gas hoggish than you think, mainly because the gas guzzlers cost enough. My car claims to get around 38mpg I would guesstimate around 33mpg is what I actually get. I would also consider myself to have an average car. However even with that standing up, your statement is still true, according to the statement the Americans get roughly 11 more miles to the gallon... Hmm!