Quote from pasibrzuch :

1. Hamilton hasn't done anything wrong at T1.

Haha you got me here, with this usuall forum tactic-of-whateverISM. I am not so motivated to go search hundreads of web pages and hours of youtube clips to find the facts in which you still will not believe, and talk your whateverISM mantra. How do I know that? Look:

How can I believe that after not so long ago +25s. penalty for Lewis? I cannot.
And:

hmmm doesn't my eyes work properly...





There no dialog with whateverISM members, sadly.

Or do you remember, who else was towed from sand trap and continued race last season duke?

so you also couldn't understand what I said as "some were obviously a joke"~?

as for Hamilton getting towed off the gravel, all that I could say was that was at Nuburgring, where MICHAEL SCHUMACHER also get a pushed off the gravel before, don't know if you watched F1 long enough to even know that through. So I'll put that down to a track specific issue.

and sorry I couldn't remember when did I said Lewis done nothing wrong at T1, what I meant was that kind of racing happened all the times and were never punished before, so that's why I said lets make up the rules on the go.

ie. if you can't point out what points I made were invalid, then that meant your point made about me was invalid, simple as that.

Tbh, Hamilton wasn't the only one who locked up in T1. Most drivers did. Even Kubica did but he managed to catch it in time to stay on the track. He admitted it himself. I think it was partly due to the track temperature and tires/brakes but most drivers locked up a bit and slipped. Hamilton's lock up was massive though and probably caused by him trying to overtake Raikonnen (his fault.)

Quote from aoun :

Man this discussion would be soo sad knowing that most of you people, saying stuff formula one and its rigged etc, are adults.

There are adults on this forum? You sure?:jawdrop:

As I said after Spa, regardless of whether or not you believed Hamilton did or did not gain an advantage, the punishment was a disaster for F1. And sadly, it seems I was right.

This is ridiculous now; penalties been thrown around with no consistency, logic, or apparent regard for the fans or the sport.

This is F1, not synchronised swimming. Results should not be decided by opinions and judgement, they should be decided by the cold, hard facts of who crosses the line first.

Quote from S3ANPukekoh3 :

This is just maFIA bullshit, Plain and simple.

Was thinking the same...

The stewards probably wake up on the morning of the race with a prancing horses head lying on the pillow next to them.... who's going to argue with that !

It's not hard to find the various blogs, forum postings, etc, with the "unwritten rules" of the FIA. Rule #1 is usually "you may not pass or defend against a red car".

Unfortunately for Bourdais, that now seems to be reality.

You can tell even the drivers concerned are getting pissed off and struggling to toe the line in their comments and not attract the wrath of the FIA. Look at Hamilton's near monosyllabic post-race interview in which he commented that he got the same penalty as Massa. Massa went off the road and drove into Hamilton, spinning him round. Hamilton went too deep into T1, as did half of the field, and didn't hit or particularly disadvantage anyone - he hurt himself more than anything with that stunt.
Bourdais himself said that he didn't know what to do to avoid getting a penalty other than rolling out the red carpet.

It's simple mate - you just need to drive a Ferrari.


I've got a HD tv, and though about subscribing to the HD service next year with a V+ box, assuming the BBC will broadcast it in HD. I really don't think I'll bother now, as it's barely even fun to watch any more. What's the point in going racing when it turns into a game of wheel of fortune, where every bit of the wheel is coloured red?

Quote from Gav190 :

Bourdais' penalty was completely unjustified though.

He shouldn't take it personally. It was just an FIA ruse to give Massa an extra point.

LOL many of you voted to 1st position.

??

Bourdais penalty... I got nothing....

Lewis' extra stop to change his flat spotted tyres and the drive thru for T1 meant that he would have lost all those positions again anyway.

The spin itself cost Lewis about 10, 15s at most. The subsequent damage to the aero cost alot more, probably 0.5s a lap at a guess judging from his race pace after that.

Worst case scenario it cost him 45s IMO. Enough to get him up to 6th

I think that the worst thing the FIA and F1 could do at this point, is sit on their hands, and not provide the world with information, regarding decisions made this year that have affected outcomes of races.

If I was in the position of being accused of making biased decisions towards a particular driver or a particular team, I would absolutely go out of my way to make sure everybody knew I was innocent, and provide evidence to suggest this. However, everything at the FIA is suspiciously quiet. Why is this? Why don't they just stop all the speculation and arguments, and come out and make their decisions and their decision making process public? I suspect the reason is, because they would give away too much information...

In fact, the only people making statements, is drivers, and even this makes you wonder if they are being paid or "asked" to do so, because the statements are always biased towards the FIA.

Hamilton and Massa both deserved their penalty, both made silly mistakes that forced another car off the circuit. However, the penalty against Bourdais was mental, Massa drove into him like an idiot, Bourdais was fighting for position with Massa and left him a lot of room on the outside. It seems common sense is hard to come by, and yet again Ferrari gain an advantage because of it.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71360

EDIT: Just wanted to add that I really like the Fuji circuit, there are lots of overtaking places and there is always a risk of rain, but I also love Suzuka, we should drop one of the Spanish GP's and give Japan an extra one.

Further to Bourdais incident - why has Massa not come out and said that the decision was the right one to make? Because everyone knows it was the wrong decision, and he doesn't want to look stupid.

Again, if it's true, shout about it (as Bourdais has done here). Those that keep quiet have normally got a reason for it.

Quote from dawguk :

Further to Bourdais incident - why has Massa not come out and said that the decision was the right one to make? Because everyone knows it was the wrong decision, and he doesn't want to look stupid.

Again, if it's true, shout about it (as Bourdais has done here). Those that keep quiet have normally got a reason for it.

Massa takes his advice from Ferrari and Schumacher, he won't say anything that goes against an FIA decision, he won't say he is at fault for anything, he will only deny claims that he deliberately tried to take out a title rival, which is fair enough because I don't think he is stupid enough to do that.

Quote from Mazz4200 :

Bourdais penalty... I got nothing....

Yea, WTF. Why penalty? Massa's Fail. Poor Bourdais.

Quote from aroX123 :

Yea, WTF. Why penalty? Massa's Fail. Poor Bourdais.

The best part is he was dropped from 6th down to 10th, losing points, and Massa gained points because of it. So basically Massa gained quite a few points by hitting other cars this weekend.

I wonder if he says this because he still wants a Ferrari seat, and with Kimi's current form, kissing up to Ferrari will do him only good?

I hope this sort of comment doesn't come back to bite him in the ass - if he so much as comes close to making contact with Hamilton for the last two races, this statement is going to damn him, whether intentional or not.

As for the Lonso helping Masaa, no way. Anyone remember this:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XWRvhA0YPgY

I'm not so sure if Masaa even wants Lonso's help

Quote from Dj-Aeri :

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71379

This guy is simply stupid...

Yeah, a great racer, but absolutely stupid

Read the last few pages of this thread but without specifically replying to anyone.

Hamilton penalty for T1 - Personal I feel he did do something wrong and he did push kimi wide. Whether is deserves a penalty is marginal at most and as no precedent in the FIA giving penalties before: why now? No reason I can think of so yet again FIA being inconsistent in decissions.

Massa against Hamilton: While I don't think he was trying to delibratly hit Hamilton, he shouldn't of taken the line he did across the kerb and across the grass. He had lost the place to Hamilton, though quite why Hamilton overtook Massa when he was (possibly) pitting for new tyres.

Massa against Bourdais: Totally Massa's fault. Bourdais exited the pits on the inside, kept to the inside and Massa turned in on him. If Bourdais had of run wide into Massa the penalty would be more fair but from all the angles I have seen, Bourdais kept his line. Penalty surely to Massa?

Overall though, very scruffy race by the possible champions. Massa or Hamilton have both had some excellent races and yet some utter crap ones too. Kubica, given a quicker car, I think would of had this world title sown up already, he hasnt simply down to lack of speed and development on the bmw.

I'm getting sick of the way the FIA and race stewards between them are permanently ruining F1. No longer are the drivers unable to pass because of the nature of the cars, now it's the nature of the stewards and FIA.

If the race controllers don't stop punishing drivers for every little thing then soon no driver will ever risk trying a pass on anyone.

Personally I think that neither Lewis, Massa or Bourdais should have recieved a penalty. OK, Massa maybe shouldn't have punted Lewis around like that but still I think the sport would be better in the long run if that kind of incident was just put down to racing. Lewis didn't have to shut the door at that moment and Massa didn't have to rejoin at the second apex.

Let the blokes race for God's sake otherwise you are going to ruin the sport completely you numpties!

Quote from Gentlefoot :

I'm getting sick of the way the FIA and race stewards between them are permanently ruining F1. No longer are the drivers unable to pass because of the nature of the cars, now it's the nature of the stewards and FIA.

If the race controllers don't stop punishing drivers for every little thing then soon no driver will ever risk trying a pass on anyone.

Personally I think that neither Lewis, Massa or Bourdais should have recieved a penalty. OK, Massa maybe shouldn't have punted Lewis around like that but still I think the sport would be better in the long run if that kind of incident was just put down to racing. Lewis didn't have to shut the door at that moment and Massa didn't have to rejoin at the second apex.

Let the blokes race for God's sake otherwise you are going to ruin the sport completely you numpties!

The phrase 'shutting the gate after the horse has bolted' springs to mind.

The best thing to do is to STOP watching. it's the only action a person can make if they feel this way towards F1. I should have stuck to my word and stopped watching after Spa, but now I really do feel I can't stomach wasting 2 hours on Sunday to sit through this circus albeit a badly choreographed one. The thing is EVERYONE is in on it. All the teams. They enter the bleedin' races so thats that!

MotoGP is on this weekend so that should be good to watch even if it isn't quite as good as it used to be

Quote from dawguk :

I think that the worst thing the FIA and F1 could do at this point, is sit on their hands, and not provide the world with information, regarding decisions made this year that have affected outcomes of races.

If I was in the position of being accused of making biased decisions towards a particular driver or a particular team, I would absolutely go out of my way to make sure everybody knew I was innocent, and provide evidence to suggest this. However, everything at the FIA is suspiciously quiet. Why is this? Why don't they just stop all the speculation and arguments, and come out and make their decisions and their decision making process public? I suspect the reason is, because they would give away too much information...

In fact, the only people making statements, is drivers, and even this makes you wonder if they are being paid or "asked" to do so, because the statements are always biased towards the FIA.

you know dawguk this is what worrys me most to m8, cus i know i would do the same and i think most folks on here would to....

Gentlefoot...

i agree 100% the LH/FM incident SHOULD have been a HHHMMM situation, but yea let the guys race! this is just getting worse and worse now, i think its killed off a potentialy good season..

Quote from Intrepid :

The best thing to do is to STOP watching.

Nah, the best thing to do, would be to kidnap Ecclestone and his man-wife from their mansion, make him resign and apologise publicly for being a money grabbing, annoying little jumped up Ferrari ass kisser, throw out any people belonging to any team on the board, ensure that a new, unbiased board is elected, and start making some seriously good decisions, for the first time in twenty years.

Or just watch MotoGP. It's pretty good still.

Why is nobody making any noise about Bourdais' penalty? After his red carpet comments, Bourdais himself seems to have wound back his comments. I can imagine how that came to pass, with top-down pressure from Ferrari.. but none of the major motorsports press seems to be tackling it. Have they seen footage that we haven't? I've only seen one angle, from the main TV stream. Anyone got more?

The commentators at the time all assumed that Massa would be under investigation for turning in on Bourdais. After the race, Bourdais was baffled to find that he was being penalised instead of Massa.. but it's all fallen quiet.

Quote from Dj-Aeri :

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71379

This guy is simply stupid...

What's wrong with that?

Or are the conspiracy theorists at work again and think he will ram Hamilton off? illepall