Quote from [GR]Evolution :

+1 but i don't think FXR will be much better with just better engine.

watch hotlaps, the fxr has only no top speed in relation to the other ones

No the FXR should have the same engine as XRR as now because the FXR sould stay a car for beginners
And look at SO for example, the FXR is really better than the XRR there...

You just need to sit on the CTRA, Conedodgers or Red line servers for any amount of time to see that the XRR is out of fashion atm. Now, I don't know whether thats because people havn't been bothered to put in the testing to get it back up to speed or that it's been nerfed out of being competative. My feeling is that the Community generally drive what they feel is the fastest regardless whether it's better or not. Obviously the FXR stills holds its crown as the noob/bullyboy racer car of choice whilst the FZR is raced by far more decerning drivers such as myself. But then i've always driven the FZR so I can't really give an indepth and fair balancing discussion between all the cars.

I like the FXR as it is fun doing a handbrake turn and flooring it away with no clutch heat.

A lot of leagues dropped any sort of extra balancing between the cars and it was a pretty bad decision IMO. Patch Z didn't really change the status quo at all, and now the XRR's just that little bit slower relatively. It can be competitive with the FZR on some tracks (places like westhill that are dominated by smooth sweeping corners), but it doesn't really have any tracks to its advantage anymore, just disadvantages and equivalencies vs. the FZR. (And I have a fair amount of endurance experience in both.) I'm really looking forward to taking the FZR to south city long for MoE after getting reamed there in the XRR in IGTC. The XRR just doesn't have the ability to put its power down as well from slower corners or over bumps and racing my ass off just to keep up with an FZR that's barely pushing gets quite annoying.

The MR + NA combo is really a double whammy when it comes to tracks where traction is key, and the FZR's ability to get away with some crazy stuff over curbing helps massively elsewhere. While the XRR's advantage of stintability isn't all that great TBH. It carries less fuel which gives it a couple tenths extra early on, but it can't really run its tires more than a couple percent longer normally. And now that people are used to the new shift dynamics having the gated gearbox in the FZR isn't really a hindrance anymore at most tracks. They're fairly well matched in top end now at least, and the XRR still has a slight advantage in some high speed corners, but a similar advantage at a slower corner (which the FZR almost always has) tends to be worth a lot more.

What's MR?

Quote from Breizh :

What's MR?

From the GT series. Just means mid-engined.

i think the fzr is RR (Rearengined/RearWheeldrive), but the advantage of RRis pretty similar to MR.

Quote from Fetzo :

i think the fzr is RR (Rearengined/RearWheeldrive), but the advantage of RRis pretty similar to MR.

Could be true, but the weight distribution itself is the important factor. And the FZR has a pretty much spot on optimal weight distribution for a touring car with the changes of the last patch. (Before it was a bit too ass heavy.) With a half tank of gas it's running around 60% rear now iirc.

Quote from Sir moi 407 :

No the FXR should have the same engine as XRR as now because the FXR sould stay a car for beginners
And look at SO for example, the FXR is really better than the XRR there...

Hmm I'm not sre the FXR is a car for beginners because lately I see everyone drive a FXR instead of the FZR. That while im working so hard to get the FZR under control.

Kinda weird, anyone know what this caused? Just a temperarely thing or...?

From what i see people mostly start with the FXR because it is easier to control, and most switch to FZR later (only few take the XRR), some keep driving the FXR tho. It has been like that since I started LFS.

I think rcpilot's got it pretty much spot on (though I would think that, wouldn't I?), and I say that as one of the league admins who decided against additional GTR balancing. Hindsight is 20/20, etc etc.

well thats a lot of new information to this topic.

what we still do not have covered is the tire wear. does this vary from car to car or do they have all the same?

Just one small semi-OT comment. I don't think the FZ is hard to learn at all. The FXR understeers like a horse on ice and the XRR has trouble keeping the rear sticking.. The FZR just puts the power down easily and immediately, and thanks to the rear engine (it's a porsche), you can swing it around pretty efficiently (less than the XRR but a lot more than the FXR).
So the FXR might be forgiving, but it's very limited. And then it's slow, too.

And I'm not sure the FZR really behaves like an MR. MRs have a nearly neutral rear and front bias, you can feel the engine right near the middle of the length. In the FZ there's a clear imbalance to the rear. Even if it is MR in overall distribution, you can feel the rear is more dense.

That said, it'd be great to have an MR GTR. I'd say something about the balancing (from what I've seen spectating 5min every other month, it's still not near perfect) but I haven't played in over 6 months, if not a year. [/ot]

The XRR and FXR simply need their rediculous turbo lag reduced, and they will be MUCH more competitive. Hopefully this will come in the (near?) future.