Man, I don't wanna seem rude, but if you don't make the effort to choose appropriate terms for a discussion, then there's no point having it.
Since you don't seem to want a proper discussion, but instead being right at all cost, glad wheel4hummer killed the debate.
Let's get this straight. You are callling drifting as in big angles for show "drifting", drifting as in '4-wheel drift' "drifting", slight yaw angles brought about by turning "drifting" and no yaw angles at all "gripping".
In which case drifting is faster than gripping as you couldn't go round corners without some yaw.
Let's clear it up then. Drifting used to be a term about a controlled but fast slide around a corner at an optimum angle/% slip etc. The term 4-wheel drift applies to this. These days the term has been butchered by idiots, so a drift is when you are far too sideways through a corner, producing lots of smoke, lots of noise and lots of tyre wear.
For the sake of simplicity we should use the current term.
Gripping is what a moron calls not driving like a fool - using the yaw of the car and the slip angles of the tyres etc etc to get the most lateral force. Both drifting and 'gripping' require grip, so it's a stupid thing to call it. But then, in the world of the drifter, the one brain-celled man is king.
i said to start with that the drift i was talking about was not the shit you see in the sport "drifting", if you were under any other impression it just shows that you didn't properly read my posts.
Idiots? Drifting describes perfectly what they are doing, how is it idiotic?
I think you'd show a little bit more respect towards drifting if you'd actually tried it.
Once again, drifting is driving like a fool?
Like i said before, you give me a better term to use and i will, so far you haven't, but thanks for calling me a moron anyway.
Your video of speed drifting was clearly the stupid large amounts of oversteer type of drifting.
Partly your fault for writing so badly though, and your insistence on using terms like gripping and drifting to describe things that nobody really understands.
It's slow, hard on cars and doesn't achieve anything
I have tried it. It reinforced my ideas. Some of the very skilled drifters are very very talented, but the vast majority are morons.
Yup.
Okay...
Drifting - far too much oversteer, in the range of 10°-50°. Not fast, not used competitively on hard surfaces in any form of motorsport.
Racing - optimising the use of the tyres by keeping slip angles, load transfer and chassis movement to the level that optimises lateral or longidinal forces. This is fast, controlled and much harder that drifting to do well. As used in fixed surface motorsport with very little alteration for the last 100 years and is what Messers Fangio, Clark, Villeneuve, Bellof and Schumacher did.
There are overlaps. A racing driver who makes a mistake or has a car issue may occasionally do a drift, usually to avoid an accident that to find any speed. 4-wheel-drifts, as made famous by images from the 60s and 70s fall under the category of racing, as they were being done solely to increase cornering force rather than to impress 14 year old girls.
As a drift cannot be using the maximum amount of grip the tyres could give then ultimately the speeds will be lower. They might be higher to the middle of the turn, but they'll lose out after that. There is no way to go faster using less than maximum grip.
If what you are saying is that drifting (small amounts of yaw) is faster than racing (small amounts of yaw) then you are saying that racing is faster than racing. Which is so so daft it's untrue.
if you can't read this you should have another crack at school.
Drifting can be considered a technique or an even something you use to describe an action. Drifting is also a sport.
Unfortunately these days you can't mention the word drift without conjuring up scenes from F&F Tokyo Drift in people's heads, but what I’m actually talking about is the motion of a car "drifting", nothing to do with the developed sport.
Racing does NOT refer to a technique, you can race using multiple techniques, how effective they are is regardless in this sense.
what's the weather like up there on your high horse? i didnt realise driving around and around a circuit as fast as you can cures world hunger.
It acheives as much as racing does, it's fun and it entertains, as soon as you get any other delusions about what you're doing it's time to quit. All decent racers appreciate this, it seems to only be the young rookies and ones that spend all there time on a computer game that fail to comprehend this.
more info on this, let me guess you mastered it straight away?
You can drift using multiple techniques too. Drifting doesn't refer to the technique used either.
Who said it has to cure world hunger?
But it still looks silly
Certainly not. For the same reason the 95% of drifters can't do it. But rather than speaking using numbers, failing to use punctuation and pretending that it's actually a quick way to drive I went back to racing.
I am confused. You have been replying to this thread and attacking everyone and trying to block everyones 'facts' by all means necessary.
Then you can't produce any evidence of your 'theory', but only replying 'its only a theory'.
not many people have provided facts, the only posts slightly resembling intelligent conversation are the one's coming from tristan, even then he seems to be reading much more into statement then is actually there, not to mention his opinion is blocked by an extremely arrogant and ignorant view towards drifting.
From what I read, I think you are trying to argue that drifting _can_ be faster than 'gripping' (= normal racing). You wrote some theory about it and then the debate began.
And no one is saying that isn't the case, but only on very tight turns (tighter than any track in LFS - we're talking round a cone here). Then drifting can be quicker. That was sorted out ages ago in this thread. But then you started saying that it would work everywhere if it wasn't for tyre wear and drivers lacking skill or something.
95% of people trying to drift - the people you might call drifters - can't. They're still drifters. If I play chess badly I'm still a chess player
Racing achieves optimisation of a class of vehicle defined by a set of regulations to cover a distance in the sortest time. Drifting has classes, and you get a bloke to decide which slide was best. One produces the car/driver combination that covered the distance in the shortest time, the other produces an opinion as to which slide was better. You don't like it that I call drifters a moron, but that's my opinion. Judge B might not like your drift, it's his opinion. Which is right? Who knows! But a race result is (normally ) very easy to define.
Plus, racing improves the breed (see other threads on this). Drifting has so far only produced, for the world at large, stickers with the text mirrored, and coloured tyre treads. Wow!
unfortunately this style of drift is kind of dead these days, that was pretty much fresh from the race track after some drivers were gaining an advantage "drifting", it pretty much went only one way after this, but you can see it's potential in the hills. you can see some of the corners he should have drifted but didnt, and it ended in some pretty bad understeer which left him with poor corner speed. still a few times he screwed up the drift which left him with less speed, but that's all in the inconsistancies of drift.
er, no i didn't, all a long i've said the tighter corners are the ones where drift would be more beneficial, relative of course.
Judges have guildelines, they judge based on those guidelines, clipping points, speed, angle, line, proximity etc etc, as a driver you know the guidelines. In case you didn't realise you have "judges" in racing who make decisions that define your outcome as well, that element is present in every sport, it needs to be there.
judged sports are not new, almost every race has a judged varient, that's life.
same as racers, the amount of pathetic drivers out on track days is hilarious, i don't see your point. only difference is you can tell the shit drifters a lot easier, you can get away with racing a lot easier as long as you have a decently setup car.
No, not really. Racing asks for more practice than drifting. You have to know your racing line braking points and always hit the apex. In drifting you don't have these kinds of points, its just slide the car through the corner.
Slightly drifting? As in a little bit of oversteer? They might be. But they' won't be drifting. Besides, LFS isn't actually that great in the combining of lateral and longitudinal forces so drifting is actually slightly better in game than it should be. And even then the WR holders don't bother.
As in countersteering during most of the entry phase and leaving quite visible skidmarks behind them. Is this regarded as drifting? Attached there is a screenshot from Bawbag's T1, it looks to me like a proper four-wheel drift.
(PS: I'm not a drifter, just following this conversation and thought I could provide to the losing side with maybe something decent to argue about )
This must be one of the longest arguments between people who seem to agree on something (at the heart of it there is an agreement here that has spilled out into an argument over terminology I think) that I've ever witnessed...not really...but it has gone on for a while now.
Are we all agreed that under certain conditions, including but not limited to a very small radius corner, 'drfiting' is quicker than 'gripping'? Yes? Good.
Right.
Then let us move on and maybe start a whole new thread about motorsports terminology then release a book for motorsports fans called 'The LFS Forum Guide to Motorsports Terminology', including all kinds of cools graphs and diagrams, and use the profits to fund further development of LFS.
If there are any other silly threads that need to be turned into profit making ideas then you'll have to figure them out yourselves because this one was a fluke.
Oh guys stop it, or we'll get another wave of "ZOMG Grippers are teh ev4l 2 us ppor Doriftos!!!1!!!1!!!!11112!"-theads
While I do like to watch drifts occasionally, I too rather think that's a bad way to get around corners quickly, unless it's very tight or not on tarmac.
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