Quote from JTbo :

Wet clutches are really rare in road cars, imo.

The Haldex 4WD system fitted to various VAG cars uses a series of wet clutches, even though that's not quite what you were talking about

I know that the new patch has some model specific changes and improvements, but I was just wondering if people felt their favourite cars had changed for the better or worse as a result of the improved physic and assorted tweaks.

The reason I'm asking is because I've just spent a very happy hour or so hammering the LX4 around, and couldn't believe how different it feels now - even though there have been no LX4 specific adjustments, it seems more solid and progressive with less snappiness and smoother handling. I used to find it enjoyable if a bit too twitchy, but now it's a complete blast

Of course I could be imagining this, but a good couple of seconds off my laptimes suggests otherwise. Have you noticed other cars benefiting from the update, and how?

You could do a lot worse than a Logitech Formula Force GP, which can often be picked up for not much over £30. The original one had cable drive and was lovely, but you'll only get one of thse if it's old stock. Newer ones are geared and pretty good, although can develop a tiny amount of play around the centre. They're 2 pedal only but are very solid with a good desk clamp and very strong feedback. Only 180 degrees of movement though, so be prepared to set your steering to linear and use a light touch or you'll be overcompensating a lot.

No, but he was demonstrating the way you would have to drive in order to pass the advanced test - running commentaries, road positioning, keeping as close to the speed limit on country roads as possible, proper use of the car's powerband, etc. If I muffed a change or wasn't using the gears to the full we'd go through it and then go back for another blast

The heel and toeing came after I'd passed (thanks to a bit of track time) and double declutching is pointless with a syncro box anyway

Quote from deggis :

There's no point using manual clutch with 2-pedal set.

Using the button does give you the opportunity to block shift, if your style benefits from it.. especially if you can heel and toe properly.

There's not really any chance of the clutch not being fully out as I use a button in lieu of a third pedal - I did use autoclutch but you can't blockshift - so it's either 100% on or off.. that's what I meant by every shift involving dumping the clutch. Actually, that's not strictly true, now I think about it - there is a tiny release interval when you let the button go, but I have no idea if it's adjustable. Adjusting to that gap rather than having full control myself is what's causing a bit of friction. I really do need a decent wheel and pedals, but funds don't permit it :|

Don't get me wrong - I don't generally melt the clutch under normal driving (although I did the other day whilst tweaking a drift setup for the new patch) but I do think that when I get it slightly wrong it goes far more wrong and faster than I'd expect, IYSWIM?

I think you've hit the nail on the head there - if you're running a proper 3 pedal setup then you have no excuse whatsoever for burning the clutch (despite the relative lack of feedback you have to indicate a clean match that you'd get in a real car). The problem for those of us who don't have G25s or similar is that ever single gearchange effectively involves dumping the clutch - you just can't get the sublety you need with a clutch button, so you'll always be running at a higher risk of damage than someone with a clutch pedal who might be able to use a bit of slip to even out slight mismatches in revs. I did actually stall the LX4 using autoclutch this morning after spinning out and rushing to get back on the track, so it doesn't always slip.

IRL my driving intructor would have skinned me alive if I'd have melted his clutch, so I learned very quickly not to He was teaching me advanced driving techniques on the runup to my test and encouraging me to go for the fastest changes the gearbox could manage whilst still remaining smooth so I had a good grounding in keeping the clutch in one piece My old MK2 Golf still was on its original clutch at 118,000 miles when it first started to slip, so I clearly didn't treat it too badly

Quote from Woz :

I can't believe, even while learning to drive stick, that you have never experienced the smell of a burnt clutch. Its not hard to miss.

Personally, no - I was very careful when I first started to drive and took it easy until I had it sussed. After passing my testI had a series of small underpowered cars that you really had to work hard to get the best of, and that involved heel and toeing and carefully matching revs on downshifts to maintain momentum around the corners on our country B roads. I even managed to drive my VW Golf MK2 home (just under 15 miles including suburban roads) with a snapped clutch cable by getting the revs just right and shifting then, so I am capable of not killing cars through indiscriminate shifting. I do recognise the smell of burnt clutch though, and never want to smell it in any of my cars!

Quote :

As a special offer I am willing to come around and show you that I can burn out the clutch in your road car in a few seconds if you want

Heh, I have no doubt that you could, but then it's easy to break anything in a car if you make a concerted effort to do just that. I find it hard to believe that you could toast a factory clutch in a standard car after a couple of laps of a circuit though, especially if you were driving as people tend to in LFS by hitting the rev limiter and then upshifting so there's actually limited slip when the plates engage. Heavy downshifts wouldn't help if people can't work out how to cadence brake, but that's hard to get right without real-world feedback anyway.

I was shocked by how easy it is to toast the clutch in the FZ50 GTR - I thought I'd see what all the fuss was about with the new clutch dynamics, and had it slipping chronically with half a lap worth of flat shifts and a couple of clutch kicks (just for testing, you understand)

I'm in two minds about all of this - I've never *ever* come close to burning a clutch IRL and that's in some fairly quick cars, yet you can knacker the XRT in a lap if you're drifting. I can't help thinking that the overheating is too harsh, and I think that the cars in the game you wouldn't expect to have a manual clutch IRL should still autoblip just as their real life counterparts would.

As for unfair advantage for flatshifters.. the MK5 Golf GTI with a DSG box is quicker to 60 IRL than the manual, but that's a small advantage compared to the things that can go wrong in a 30 lap race. A good driver will put down similar times in either. If someone doesn't appreciate the fine art of manual gear changing then they're unlikely to be driving at the same level as people who do, so I would imagine any advantage will be cancelled out.

Quote from danowat :

Wish I had a £ for everyone who says they lost their setups...........

Sorry, I should have made that clearer - I've run the fix tool already and am in the process of making adjustments to account for the different feel to the handling of many of the cars.

What I intended to say was that on first running the game I was given the impression that I'd lost them for reasons that are now well documented

I had to re-unlock the game and lost my setups, but just assumed that this was part of the ongoing evolution. Your skins are still there, but you just need to pick them up again with the 'new colours' button.

I'm having trouble getting used to the revised rev limiter, but the whole thing does feel more solid now. Overall I'm happy, and just have to work on getting my setups back to where they were

The demo is also the full version, so yes - the license just unlocks the extras

Ello all

Finally got my S2 license after mucking about with the demo for a while, and It's been well worth it. I'm fascinated by the strength of the online drift scene, but I'm surprised there don't seem to be more autocross events going.. unless I'm just looking in the wrong place

Hope to see you out and about on the track - look out for an XRT in either classic Martini or Gulf livery and that'll probably be me