My memory about the training module was actually a bit off. Below min speed doesn't actually invalidate the run, it just puts up a warning over the replay and informs thay you did not pass that module. I'd prefer that the run be invalidated (no time given) or have a definable time penalty if the driver is under the minimum speed, 2-5 seconds most likely. It would also be cool if there was an onscreen message explaining the penalty.

I've seen some of the EVOC simulation training. It's pretty intense. The trainer can control any of the characters in the sim (vehicles or people) and make them do really stupid things, like run in front of the EV or pull out unexpecetedly, kind of like a demo server LOL.

Quote from Dygear :

An EVOC style course would be awesome, teach people how to really handle these cars.

That's exactly what I have planned. I'm surprised anyone around here knows about EVOC.

Quote from Dygear :

Pretty sure, that's training only. But it would be cool to have that.

Yeah, it could add a lot of fun options to an autox layout: minimum speed entering a turn, brake from x kph before a barrier, min speed at the apex, etc. I plan on using it for driver training, but I'm sure there are many other uses.

Posted this on the autox forum, but didn't get any response. Thought I'd try it here:

Is there any way to add minimum speed to autocross checkpoints (on any track), like is done in the LFS training modules? In the braking module, for instance, you can complete the course but you get a warning that your speed was too low and your time doesn't count. Is there any way to do this with a standard autox layout?

Is there any way to add minimum speed to autocross checkpoints, like is done in the LFS training modules? In the braking module, for instance, you can complete the course but you get a warning that your speed was too low and your time doesn't count. Is there any way to do this with a standard autox layout?

In the cars I've driven the brake pedal is, get this, actually connected to the chassis! So it is possible for vibration and road feedback to get to the pedal without going to through the hydraulic system, especially when there is pressure in the system creating a spot to leverage against. Maybe your reynard has a special brake pedal assembly that is magnetically suspended from the chassis?

Now I see that you are an engineer and have driven a proper race car. I have also, for several years (I was one of the drivers doing the abs testing during my years in World Challenge). There is some feedback through the pedal, in addition to the forces you have mentioned. But as I said, we are not soon going to get a fast, accurate and affordable representation of the g-force vector, much less a rapid change to it that happens on lock-up. I'm not suggesting that the feedback on the sim racing pedal is going to be perfect -- in fact in may be best applied to the pedal area -- and it may in fact be an exaggeration of reality, but it will be a hell of a lot better than what we have now, which is nothing.

Last edited by SecondSkin, Mon, 28 Jul 2008 04:07.

Quote from Dac :

lol the brake pedal in real cars doesnt have any force feedback through it anyways except for if your unlucky enough to have ABS and that is like a vibration.

a gas cylinder with some fluid in it would give you the best feel for real brakes i would have thought. anything else is just unrealistic.

Sorry, but in real life you do get ALOT of road feedback through your feet, from both the pedals and the floorboard. So much so that until the mid 90's an experience racer could often outbrake a stock abs system. How to quanitify that feedback and get it to the sim racer is the only real question.

I like the idea of the pedal with motor resistance, I think one day we will have that or something like it. Until then, the only way to do it may be to drive a feedback transducer via the audio signal. It may be unrealistic, but it would be good feedback and would be more like reality than the current state of affairs (which is to wait until you hear the squeal, or even worse to set the car up so its impossible to lockup. About half the setups I download are like that).

As far as realism goes, to some extent you have to exaggerate the feedback for it to make sense. Its a simple fact that as a sim racers we lack the most basic form of feedback that drivers use in the real world (g forces) and we'll likely never get more than 1g of that. We have to make up for that in some way, which is why the ffb in the wheels is exaggerated along with about any other tactile feedback. The tactile feedback doesn't feel right until its exaggerated becuase it exists in a vacuum of g-force data.

That's one reason I like the tactic the iVibe guy was on to. Realizing you can't accurately simulate g-loads, he was asking for all the other forces you can simulate -- road surface (which you can feel in reality), wheel spin, suspension movement etc. It makes more sense to get that data accurate (or slightly exaggerated) because it is easier to simulate that data than a 2g cornering load, especially considering the cost. Yet it seems that he was run out of lfs because his data isn't needed by $20,000 rigs that attempt to simulate 1g, when his device (were he still supporting it, LOL) is accessible to alot more people. End of rant, just don't call me a fanboy. I don't even own one, I just think he was on to a good idea.

The force feedback for the pedals would probably come from an outside of the game app and might not even be registered as a controller, just a feedback device like a motion platform, so I don't think that will be a problem. Finding a realtime source for wheelspeed seems to be the big problem. I found a set of tools (x-simulator) which will drive the feedback motors, but have found no source for wheelspeed.

*thinking out loud* I'm wondering if wheel lockup produces a different skid sound than the skid sound from turning. If so, that could prove useful.

I've been working on a force feedback brake pedal using the guts of a dual-shock controller. I can get it to vibrate at a certain pedal position using a simple switch but it would be better to vibrate (or more to be more realistic, stop vibrating) when a wheel locks up. I can't find any insim or outgage data that would support this and a previous thread says there is none. I suppose there may be a hack from tire temps or skid sound, but that would be too slow and too confusing.

Is there no way to get wheel speeds out of the sim? If so, insim/outsim is sorely lacking.....

I followed a thread by the maker of that ivibe seat asking for similar data....the common belief was that if the makers of $20,000 simulators don't need the data, then no one else does. Total BS. There's alot of data that would be useful for motion cues aside from g-force and position data. This is just one of them...

Never mind, just figured it out. You have to find the orange dot by the object, then press delete to move the object. How very intuitive.

After they are placed, I mean. I can't seem to move or select any objects that are already placed, or do I have to place them perfectly the first time?

PS I am not hot-lapping or any of that bs. I am in the editor, and I can place objects, but I can't move them after they are placed. Am I missing something?