I gave iRacing a try for the past 2 days, like I said I really don't have that much experience with online racing, so had to check it too since it gets great reviews... I started with a Mazda MX-5 Cup on Okayama Short course. I got some time trials and multi-car practices first and I was about 0.7s slower than the best drivers (it's a 2km). You can't make any setup changes when you first start but it might be that the other drivers could because they were higher rank, so can't know for sure, but I think I was slow. Anyway, I liked the fixed setup thing...
And I just had my first race and guess what, I won... This is the event results page: http://members.iracing.com/mem ... 1130074&custid=158185 . It was a 15 laps race and let me assure you I didn't even get on the grass one time in 15 laps, if you make the tiniest mistake and end up in the wall, race is over, the damage is very realistic. And really that's how everybody had to drive, you can see that some other drivers are higher class than me but no one took any chances, not even the 2nd driver in first corner because I kind of missed the start; all I had to do is keep the outside, he stayed on the inside but I got faster to next corner and he fell back... not even a contact, I was impressed about how clean the race started...
So I must say, a realistic damage model is a major pressure on the driver... LFS is fine and the consequences are spot on (the car geometry getting messed and such), but really they come too late, I mean you have to really damage the car. That means you can get away with many things and as a result people just drive messier. I got the point about LFS leagues where people drive better but really this was my entry-level experience in iRacing; we can safely match this to a public LFS server...
And I just had my first race and guess what, I won... This is the event results page: http://members.iracing.com/mem ... 1130074&custid=158185 . It was a 15 laps race and let me assure you I didn't even get on the grass one time in 15 laps, if you make the tiniest mistake and end up in the wall, race is over, the damage is very realistic. And really that's how everybody had to drive, you can see that some other drivers are higher class than me but no one took any chances, not even the 2nd driver in first corner because I kind of missed the start; all I had to do is keep the outside, he stayed on the inside but I got faster to next corner and he fell back... not even a contact, I was impressed about how clean the race started...
So I must say, a realistic damage model is a major pressure on the driver... LFS is fine and the consequences are spot on (the car geometry getting messed and such), but really they come too late, I mean you have to really damage the car. That means you can get away with many things and as a result people just drive messier. I got the point about LFS leagues where people drive better but really this was my entry-level experience in iRacing; we can safely match this to a public LFS server...
You're missing my point... Like I said, I don't care much about records and I'm not saying that I should be first place exactly because I don't have the miles... However, I got to cargame.nl pretty fast to class 8 just by finishing races (95% safety or so too). At some point I just let everybody pass me at the start so I don't crush in first bend where 2-3 had to pit. Again, there are some in races with very good times that are consistent but you get others that have the best time and finish at poor positions or not finish at all... Also there were some that passed me once or twice, they were fast drifting all the time but crashing as well... Stuff like that got me wondering and I spectated first place, I think it was on Kyoto, after the oval he was cutting a chicane both ways. I was like "o, can you do that?" 
))
It's the same on some other tracks that have far more restrictive kerbs, but still, you can slow a little so that you don't take off but still make good time as opposed of just making the turn or chicane clean...
My point is people might not want to look at others how to find flaws in the game, maybe the dev just missed that area that flags a cut track, in real life there's a person to tell you that you have 2 cuts left or get black. Of course, people can do the same with similar setups but really if you mess up cutting a track there's a chance for consistent drivers to pick up because of not having a massively developed setup as a plus.
A good gearbox setup can give you not only better acceleration but also better braking and mid-corner stability, so don't underestimate setups. You get 2-3 seconds on Blackwood but how about a longer track?
So dunno... was just looking for tight races, as long as players stay on the racing line, brake properly and exit decent in 10 laps Blackwood distance races you'll get 10 cars in 15 seconds...
))It's the same on some other tracks that have far more restrictive kerbs, but still, you can slow a little so that you don't take off but still make good time as opposed of just making the turn or chicane clean...
My point is people might not want to look at others how to find flaws in the game, maybe the dev just missed that area that flags a cut track, in real life there's a person to tell you that you have 2 cuts left or get black. Of course, people can do the same with similar setups but really if you mess up cutting a track there's a chance for consistent drivers to pick up because of not having a massively developed setup as a plus.
A good gearbox setup can give you not only better acceleration but also better braking and mid-corner stability, so don't underestimate setups. You get 2-3 seconds on Blackwood but how about a longer track?
So dunno... was just looking for tight races, as long as players stay on the racing line, brake properly and exit decent in 10 laps Blackwood distance races you'll get 10 cars in 15 seconds...
@Gutholz, I really think setups are personal, ie. what works for a driving style might not for for others. Frankly, I'm happy with my results, with 16 drivers on cargame.nl I started at the back but got points (3-8 finish position) with default setup by just staying in the race for the end.
The reason I've pointed out what I think needs improving is because it got to a point where things are just far from reality really... I don't want cracked mirrors... or ok, have them, but only after drivers loose suspension if they cut tracks in places where you'd loose the bumper in real-life and such.
Really, I've seen races online where the fastest player was 10th in a race, what's that saying. Also a very good point about race length, that is a factor too.
The reason I've pointed out what I think needs improving is because it got to a point where things are just far from reality really... I don't want cracked mirrors... or ok, have them, but only after drivers loose suspension if they cut tracks in places where you'd loose the bumper in real-life and such.
Really, I've seen races online where the fastest player was 10th in a race, what's that saying. Also a very good point about race length, that is a factor too.
There's no point even debating this, as far as I understand a user with a setup/that cuts the track and is 13s faster than other users will always be 13s faster, no matter what...
Anyway, that's the way things are in online racing and it's hard to change that. Just one question, if everybody has talked about setup restrictions - and by the way, setup restrictions have been imposed in real championships exactly to keep racing fair, just can't remember the championship, it was in Europe I think - has this been tried in a server? If still online, what's the name?
Anyway, that's the way things are in online racing and it's hard to change that. Just one question, if everybody has talked about setup restrictions - and by the way, setup restrictions have been imposed in real championships exactly to keep racing fair, just can't remember the championship, it was in Europe I think - has this been tried in a server? If still online, what's the name?
Suggestions for better online racing
Hi,
I've been racing online for a while now (I'm 29, LFS/race gaming is just a hobby) and what I was looking for and was kind of hoping to get from LFS was clean and tight racing. I can appreciate ppl having great setups and records and spending hours on tracks but it's frustrating to have racers pass you 2-3 times in a race just because they are fast but crash allot too. I don't know if LFS was developed as a type of arcade game, where people care about records and winning at all costs... from my point of view, here are two improvements:
1. setup is way too permissive... we get it, people learn from it and that's a good thing but really putting all the physics in a sim is almost impossible so players that have the time can get away with allot from setup alone. Maybe have 2-3 types of shocks, 2-3 springs, 2-3 sway bars available, 2 gearboxes (low speed and high speed and so on)... I think you know what I mean... I know these days shocks have infinite setup options, but really, do real racers/teams get to 100.000 laps? At which costs? There's fuel, tires not to mention time, it takes more to try a setup in real-life than it is in a game where you click two times and that's it. If this is not economically viable to implement in LFS, maybe allow server admins to force default setups for all racers? That would be pretty cool anyway...
2. damage is way too permissive... and this leads to some anomalies... I've seen formula cars cutting the track lap after lap without any issues; you won't do that in real-life, not only because you'll probably bounce and spin (again, might be hard to put all the params in the sim), but also because this will cause damage to suspension, tires and maybe your brain :P ; also, consider that even hitting a kerb at certain angles could pop the tire off the rim... race over. There is damage simulation and effects are pretty cool, but it just comes up too late... I had to get out of my way to damage a car just to get some results that would make it undriveable/competitive... I won't end up to that point in real life due to internal bleeding...
cargame.nl had a go with classes and safety points but really, if people would drive with similar setups and take care of the cars programmers won't have to find almost impossible solutions to keep races clean, it will just come naturally... get too fast in a turn and off the track, it would be hard to catch up with someone that drives slower but consistent... same, hit someone in a turn and you might get both out of the race due to damage. Brake with care when someone is in front of you, and not because you are responsable according to clean racing guidelines (common sens as well but heck), but because you might damage the radiator if you hit someone too many times.
I've been racing online for a while now (I'm 29, LFS/race gaming is just a hobby) and what I was looking for and was kind of hoping to get from LFS was clean and tight racing. I can appreciate ppl having great setups and records and spending hours on tracks but it's frustrating to have racers pass you 2-3 times in a race just because they are fast but crash allot too. I don't know if LFS was developed as a type of arcade game, where people care about records and winning at all costs... from my point of view, here are two improvements:
1. setup is way too permissive... we get it, people learn from it and that's a good thing but really putting all the physics in a sim is almost impossible so players that have the time can get away with allot from setup alone. Maybe have 2-3 types of shocks, 2-3 springs, 2-3 sway bars available, 2 gearboxes (low speed and high speed and so on)... I think you know what I mean... I know these days shocks have infinite setup options, but really, do real racers/teams get to 100.000 laps? At which costs? There's fuel, tires not to mention time, it takes more to try a setup in real-life than it is in a game where you click two times and that's it. If this is not economically viable to implement in LFS, maybe allow server admins to force default setups for all racers? That would be pretty cool anyway...
2. damage is way too permissive... and this leads to some anomalies... I've seen formula cars cutting the track lap after lap without any issues; you won't do that in real-life, not only because you'll probably bounce and spin (again, might be hard to put all the params in the sim), but also because this will cause damage to suspension, tires and maybe your brain :P ; also, consider that even hitting a kerb at certain angles could pop the tire off the rim... race over. There is damage simulation and effects are pretty cool, but it just comes up too late... I had to get out of my way to damage a car just to get some results that would make it undriveable/competitive... I won't end up to that point in real life due to internal bleeding...
cargame.nl had a go with classes and safety points but really, if people would drive with similar setups and take care of the cars programmers won't have to find almost impossible solutions to keep races clean, it will just come naturally... get too fast in a turn and off the track, it would be hard to catch up with someone that drives slower but consistent... same, hit someone in a turn and you might get both out of the race due to damage. Brake with care when someone is in front of you, and not because you are responsable according to clean racing guidelines (common sens as well but heck), but because you might damage the radiator if you hit someone too many times.
Last edited by V8Li, .
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