Quote from logitekg25 :

+1

very origional idea, and i like it....but i want a truck

Truck racing! That would be fun!!

Quote from Scawen :

It is definitely time for all LFS websites to update to the new format.

The problem you encountered inspired me to write some instructions to help any LFS website owners to update their links :

New Thread in Hosts Forum : http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=63744

I guess the guide is what is needed for the webmasters!

Quote from boothy :

I click that above and get the parameter 1 error.

I use lfs://join=GVRteam%20Demo%20Server%20^h2 and I can connect...

Yeah. So either this kind of links should be updated or the LFS should work with them too.

I think that's developers call.

[url]lfs://|GVRteam%20Demo%20Server%20%232|0|S2|/[/url]

Well there isn't any "join=" part in the above link...

Quote from boothy :

I got the same parameter 1 invalid message when trying to join: [url="lfs://%7C"]lfs://|[/url][SR]+Hotlap+League|0|S2/ but once I deleted the association and joined it on LFSW with: [url]lfs://join=[/url][SR] Hotlap League it worked

Well that's interesting. I didn't use LFS World links. I clicked on some links of the first type you posted.

So can't I join to a server through this type of links? Is there an issue with character encoding maybe?

edit: The links I followed are available here: [url]http://gvrteam.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1147[/url]
Just click any "Join" link above of the boxes!

Quote from Scawen :

Did you have LFS Join installed before? I think maybe you would get that if the messages are still going through LFS Join.

So... if that is the case I think you should uninstall LFS Join.

I've also attached this useful tool which is like a cut-down installer that only add or removes the associations.
Save the exe from the zip file into your LFS folder.
Then after uninstalling LFS Join you can run the association tool and make sure the lfs:// association is enabled.

NOTE : The translations are not finished in the association tool.

I had installed Join2LFS but I have uninstalled it. Basically I just deleted its files.

I also ran the tool you attached with no success!

Firefox has the following associations available:



I will translate them for you:

1. Always ask
   
2. Use "C:\LFS\LFS.exe" %1 (default)
   
3. Use LFS.exe
   

I tried both options (2 & 3) but I get the same message:

Quote from Scawen :

Added support for lfs:// (start LFS with command line from web page)

I get the error message "Parameter 1 is invalid" when I try to join a server via a browser. (I tried both Fx 3.5.5 and IE 8).

Last edited by Costas Athan, Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:05.

Quote from AndroidXP :

That's I think an artefact of the anisotropic filtering. Has nothing to do with LFS itself or Z28 specifically.

You 're right. It happened when I installed 9.11. It's just a coincidence that I installed Z28 at the same time.

And I just found the solution thanks to you! In the above screen of CCC "Use application settings" check box at AF section must be checked. That's it; it does all the work!

Thanks for the tip!!!

I have a problem with Z28 and ATI's drivers 9.11. (The video card is 4870, 1GB RAM).


(click on the image to see a larger version of it)

The curb's blue lines are not any more straight and the tarmac is more aliased than it used to be.

System's Catalyst 3D settings can be seen here:



I had Catalyst 9.8 installed till yesterday - with the exactly same settings as long as I can recall - along with previous versions of LFS (I have used 9.8 with many patches up to Z27) and LFS graphics looked better.

Any ideas on what is causing the problem?

During race starts, if everyone respected yellow flag things would be much better!

Quote from AndroidXP :

Posts like yours are the reason the devs post so rarely nowadays. Instead of applying common sense you pick these posts apart, analysing what the exact wording could or does imply, drawing false conclusions or even promises from it.

Yeah he said that. At that point in time it wasn't clear if they might be uploadable at some point. Or maybe it was just a figure of speech and didn't think twice about it. Turns out Z15 hotlaps won't be uploadable, considering the new physics coming out and all.

If I was a developer that had to put up with this bullshit over-analysing, I'd also rather stop posting altogether than risk saying something that could be interpreted wrong or could possibly not be 100% correct. FFS.

The contradiction I described in post #257 caught my eye and I tried to figure out what could be different in next patch that could do Z15 hotlaps compatible with it. Is it that bad?

Quote from Stiggie :

Are people really that retarded..
TEST patches are made because people are supposed to TEST it. That was hard to understand, wasn't it?
Just drive using 0.5 if you want break records.
Just go to the improvement section if you want to complain about other problems in LFS. This section is for reporting problems regarding the TEST patch. I think you can report the ABS section there aswell, instead of here.

Sorry, i sound like a mod. It just annoys me. I should stop now.

Before you post a message in that tone you can read more carefully...

Quote from Scawen :

ABS brakes have been added to 5 cars (as a setup option) so for now you cannot upload hotlaps made in Z15.

I have bolded the phrase that made me ask the question. Scawen says for now. For now implies that in future Z15 hotlaps will be uploadable. I just wondered if for now is not OK because of ABS, how can it be OK in the furture with a new patch and physics?

I just tried to clarify if he really meant what he has written. Because of the part I quoted (and especially the bold phrase) I believe my question was legitimate.

Quote from Flame CZE :

Sure we will. I think that all hotlaps will be deleted, so we will be able to upload new hotlaps.

Yeah, but if the hotlaps get deleted when the new patch is released, wouldn't be a physics mismatch between Z15 and the new patch?

Now Z15's hotlaps can't be accepted for that reason. Because patch Z doesn't have ABS.

Quote from Scawen :

ABS brakes have been added to 5 cars (as a setup option) so for now you cannot upload hotlaps made in Z15.

Will we be ever able to upload them? Because if I'm not mistaken the next patch will come with other changes (like tire model) besides ABS.

Quote from Forbin :

Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?

I am a university student. But it's not a matter of wisdom or excessive knowledge. It is basic physics that we have taught since High School. Take a pen and drag it from the middle, it will move straight. Then do the same but make sure that you hold the pen's end at the same point. The pen will make a circular movement. The above experiment is so simple that you can try it yourself. Too much grip has the same effect as holding the pen's end still.

Last edited by Costas Athan, Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:22.

Quote from legoflamb :

All this may or may not be fixed with the new tire physic patch.



There might be less grip from load transfer to the outside wheels causing them to slide instead of roll over.

However, that is just an assumption, not based on fact.

You may have a good point. I had modified 2007 Sauber BMW F1 1.00 rFactor mod's tires in order to gain more grip and it was really easy to flip the car. So by reducing the grip sliding will be easier but rolling over harder.

Last edited by Costas Athan, Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:59.

Quote from Degats :

Looking from the best angle I can from shift+u, the final corner curb is about 20cm or so at its top. A few real racetracks have similar curbs, so it's not that out of the ordinary.

I've seen SS cars get launched on another's tyre and not sustain any major damage (usually will break something though) and the forces involved there would be higher than bouncing off a curb at a guess, so not sustaining damage on that curb wouldn't be out of the question. At that kind of speed I wouldn't have thought it impossible to roll a car hitting a similar curb in RL, especially with the amount of lateral force going on. I've seen touring cars almost roll on shallower curbs, although it's usually corrected by the driver so they don't actually roll all the way.

As far as loss of downforce and breakable wings are concerned, Scawen has said that breakable wings are in the works for S2 to get out of alpha, so I would assume loss of downforce will go along with that.

Touring cars produce less amount of downforce compared to an open wheeler when both cars travel at the same speed. I've never seen a one seater rolling over by hitting a curb and of course drivers do mistakes in real races too. There are plenty examlpes of race drivers loosing control while turning...

And if I'm not mistaken the grass isn't lower than the curb in turn 1. If there was a height difference and the wheel stepped from +20 cm to 0 cm in a split second I would expect a major accident. But in my case in the first corner I don't even have contact with the grass... And even if the curb is 20 cm high it is not an instant step from 0 to 20, but the curb is an angled area.

edit: Look at a BMW rollover crash test --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0I4fmttN7Y&NR=1 at 2:00". Look the height of the ramp they use. In turn 1 I had almost the same results with lets say the double speed from this crash test but with a car with much better downforce and a curb which can't be compared with this video's ramp. And as I said if the curb gained 20 cm vertically it would definitely be a disaster to ride it. But the curb is angled. The only thing it happens is that the right wheels aren't on the same level with the left ones. I don't see why this should cause a rollover.

Last edited by Costas Athan, Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:45.

Quote from Bluebird B B :

I am sorry i have to disappoint you, there is no such thing as a perfect simulation Also, what exactly happens when you destroy your car, is not very interesting for a simulation; you're out of race, if the wheel came off, you flipped over of got launched to the moon.. so what..
The curb in itself is ok, i never,ever flipped my car and i did .. many, many many(!) laps at bl gp. Just don't steer in too early and if you do, evade that inside curb! irl there are tracks too where you just cannot drive onto the innerside curb because its too high.

It is indeed possible to do a 1:22 with bent suspension, that is about 10 seconds slower then wr time. I will be worried if you can do 1:14 or better with seriously damaged car.

About the 1:22 watch the replay. I don't full throttle because after the accident I thought my chances for a better position were ruined. I do a 1:22 because I don't push the car! If you watch the replay carefully it is quite obvious. (Watch the green bar that represents the throttle pedal). And notice how many degrees I have to steer the wheel left in order to drive the car in a straight line. The suspension is really damaged... (And your comparison with the WR is not fair. I usually drive around 1:15 to 1:16. My PB is 1:14.57. I did it yesterday!)

As of what is interesting or not, I don't care. If developers start to think that way they will develop an arcade game. Arcade driving games are more interesting for the majority of users. You can easily find out by checking the sales of many arcade titles. They are not even comparable with simulation titles.

And of course simulation can get better. There is not perfect simulation, I agree. But it can get better and better. And in case of LFS it does in every new patch. (Right now we expect a new tire model).

There are examples of better simulation of car damage. Drive for example rFactor's mod FSONE and you'll see that when you lose a wing (especially the rear) the car is almost undrivable. You have to drive slowly to the pits for a new wing. (When the front wing is damaged you have way far less braking power). And of course in a high speed crash, the engine breaks down.

In LFS a damaged body doesn't affect aerodynamics (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=192109#post192109). I don't know if the majority of LFS users want this to stay as it is, but personally I prefer the realistic approach. It's not good when someone has smashed his front wing to rejoin the race without problem. In a real race a mistake like that usually costs you some positions. And because of that a real race isn't about fast laps only, but it is essential to keep your car intact.

Quote from Bluebird B B :

100kph is not that fast, but hitting head on into a concrete wall is also for a single seater seriously fast. The chassis will be broken and the entire car will have to be rebuild..and everybody who isn't in serious good condition will stay in hospital for some time.

I seems you don't want to hear it, you drive up a steep and 15cm-20cm high curb at 100+ km/h and complain something happens that makes it impossible to continue race. It does not matter if the wheel should have broken off or flip the over. You are out of race, that is realistic. Since formula cars are very,very strong, irl the suspension would bent slightly making the car so bad to drive you have to retire from race. And in this case, with the giving angles, g-loads and steering input irl you might also flipped over the car.

If you buy lfs and start racing the hot gtr hatchbacks, it will be a lot worse, you can flip those over low curbs, and they do that irl life too

Well as I already wrote (#43) I expect from a simulator the right behavior. If that means a broken suspension which would lead to a retirement it's OK.

Although, even with a bended suspension you can drive the car very fast. Watch this replay --> http://www.filedropper.com/steering and notice that in some straights I don't full throttle because I gave up the effort for a better position. And even without pushing the car I can steel do 1:22. Notice also how much I should steer in order to keep the car in a straight line, in order to understand how damaged the suspension is.

edit: I forgot to write it...

I don't know if the curb is 20 cm high (it's difficult to estimate its height and I don't know if there is a way to measure it) but if it is so high it must be redesigned. Curbs aren't there to cause accidents...

Last edited by Costas Athan, Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:23.

Quote from Breizh :

Your replay looks just like what a stuntman would do if he wanted to flip his car over. Live and learn.

Are you sure you watched the replays?

Because I consider 100 kph as a slow speed for a one seater, slow enough to prevent rollovers. (In fact slow enough to prevent many kinds of racing accidents).

Did you watch the two wheels drive? I don't think Formula BMW is an ordinary car for that kind of stunts. Actually open wheelers aren't good for stunts at all. Stunt cars are specially tuned.

And in the case of the uphill turn I didn't make the perfect entry, but I have seen worse in racing and in most cases cars ending up out of the road with wheels facing down.

Quote from Hallen :

You are making the assumption that this only happens with the FBM. It doesn't. It will happen with other cars too depending on the angle you hit the curb, the speed you are going, and how the car is setup. Search for physics, exploding curbs (kerbs), roll over, etc.

You are also missing the point about those curbs. Those are not normal curbs and you won't find them on any F1 track in the world. That corner is about a 80mph or more corner and that's a lot of force being slammed through a very rigid frame with probably a very rigid suspension setup. Plus, you are pulling at least 2gs through that corner. Put those things together, you get a roll-over. In the real world, the car might not roll over, but you wouldn't be going any further anyway because of a broken suspension and possibly a broken frame. So the point is, don't hit that curb.

The contact patch problem is a possible contributor to what you are seeing. Also, there could be a problem with hitting the car frame and we also know in certain situations, that can cause massive forces to occur that aren't normal. However, this is nothing new. It is a bit unusual to see a FBM do a roll over, but that is an off camber corner with a very high and sharp curb. It's going to ruin your day one way or another if you keep hitting that curb so don't hit it.

Quit fretting over this and go learn the lines and have fun. It is a gravity problem. It isn't a CoG or rotation problem. It isn't really a tire model problem.

I've said a couple of times already. There are other two more unrealistic incidents. I also flipped the car with 100 kph in the first corner. That's about 60 mph. And in my second replay I drove on two wheels for a second or two. I put effort to keep it in the track and land it. I insist that's not a typical behavior for an open wheeler. I don't care if the right outcome is a damaged suspension or anything else. The game is a simulation title and I expect the right behavior, even if this means a totaled car.

Look Bawbag's WR 1:12.080. At the start of the replay he does the same corner with 160 kph, 100 mph. He runs over the curb but the car doesn't flip. Maybe the problem is the setup.

Anyway, I will try to avoid the curbs... In fact, I don't use them too much. It just happened these days to flip so I opened that topic...

Quote from JoRuss :

My point was it doesn't matter what was the cause, curbs or something else (car for example) when you doin' it wrong you can't expect the game to not punish you for your actions. Once you get past the verge of flipping it's one way road...
You basically went into uphill turn too early, bumped left side while turning at 140km/h with 2g side acceleration... how'd you expect to end that if not by flipping

Losing control, spinning?

But that's not the only replay. I uploaded another one in which car flipped while doing 100 km/h. And another one with FBM on two wheels...

Quote from Sponge :

I just wanted to point out that the video's posted above have nothing to do with flipping by hitting a curb or anything. And race cars can flip.. what else is new?

I posted the videos in response to JoRuss video. I explained that they haven't anything to do with curbs.

Race cars flip but that's not common. They flip because of crashing which is understandable or in Webber's Mercedes case due to bad aerodynamic design.

My point was (and if I didn't make it obvious I will try to make it clear now) that it is almost impossible for a car to flip by hitting track's curbs or bumps. And if that happens it must be a problem with the car (that's why I made an edit to point to Mercedes video).

The conclusion from the above is that I don't believe the way FBM reacts on curbs is normal and it should be revised.

Quote from Luke.S :

ah sorry i'm that used to people complaining

(my mother does it all the time :razz

You are free to believe what ever you want. I just declared my position.

I honestly think that LFS is one of the best simulators and it doesn't deserve any complaints. I also think suggestions can be a good starting point for further improvement.

Quote from JoRuss :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eulwu_50l04 fake?

Of course not. Real. But we are talking about curbs here.

That's totally another thing. The green car hit the red and lifted it in the air.

Here is a well known incident between Michael Schumacher and Damon Hill. Last race of the season, Adelaide Street Circuit. Schumacher won the championship (his first F1 title) over Damon Hill for only one point due to this incident.

But that's a different story. In that kind of situations cars have a good reason to leave track's surface...

edit1: I have to mention Mark Webber's incident which maybe well known because Webber drives for years in F1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V2Jqp27XFM

Quote :

Mark Webber flipped twice on the main straight during practice events for the 1999 24 Hours of Le Mans race.[2] An aerodynamic fault on the team's Mercedes-Benz CLRs caused Webber to spectacularly become airborne during both practice and race-day warm up, with the same fate befalling teammate Peter Dumbreck five hours into the race. Both drivers escaped uninjured, but the crashes forced Mercedes to shelve their sportscar program for the year and Webber to reconsider a return to open wheel racing

Source: Wikipedia

Webber's incident was something unusual. But as it proved it had to do with an aerodynamic fault. It's obvious it isn't a typical race car behavior.

edit2: Another link with a Mercedes from the same race --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFN_Gp1eHN0

Last edited by Costas Athan, Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:49.