Quote from tristancliffe :

Most people don't actually know what black ice IS, let alone how to predict/recover from it, and TC won't save you if you drive along blissfully unaware of the threat.

There is no road speed that is perfectly safe. Chances are driving a car will be the most dangerous thing you'll ever do, but familiarity breeds contemp. People take driving for granted. In fact they feel they couldn't actually live without it (which may be true if you're the only one without it, but not if no one had them). Of course I've taken corners too fast. But rarely am I too fast for the road or the prevailing conditions based upon the ultimate grip levels I will achieve. I may, however, be going to fast for the off chance of a cyclist or a deer doing some exploration. But TC doesn't have ANYTHING to do with go fast. Turning on the TC in an Enzo doesn't make it safe, not in the slightest. It purely means that idiots can jump in and press the loud pedal, pretend they are Michael Schumacher and, normally, survive the experience without killing somone or themselves by over enthusiastic application of loudness. But it doesn't make you safe, and it won't stop you crashing. At this rate supercars (if you can call the Enzo super) will be a thing of the past, bloated with airbags, TC, ABS, Yaw Control, 4WD and all the other non-supercary things designed to make driving easier for idiots.

Me? I'd rather have the option of controlling my own destiny. It won't make me slower, and it won't make me faster. TC won't stop people from understeering into a cyclist at twice the legal limit. It won't stop people from hitting kerbs when they go too fast for their talent. It won't stop the vast majority of accidents in actual fact. In fact, the lack of TC on cars wouldn't make me any more of a threat to society than I am in a 2CV. But without it I'll have a bigger grin. Perhaps supercars should be sold with driving instruction, but not only instruction but to give the drivers an awareness of their own limitations, both on the track and in real world driving conditions. Then throw away ALL the safety equipment and keep supercars super! I don't believe there is ANY need for TC as a safety or performance device. It's only useful contribution is helping poorly suited cars cope on icey roads in colder countries.

ABS on the other hand has real world benefits. I myself still like to NOT have it, as I have learnt how to cadance brake in emergency situations (and I've tested it succesfully too). But 99% of people don't even know what cadance braking is, let alone how to do it. They just see a Go pedal and a Stop pedal, and to stop quicker, no matter what the situation, they press Stop harder and harder. Thus ABS works in reality. TC just spoils the fun. In the UK one of the few things that isn't directly forbidden is acceleration. It is perfectly legal to accelerate as fast as any car is capable of, though you might get booked for driving without due care and attention.

In responce to JeffR, if you need to resort to electronic trickery to make your car go faster (in which case the focus of the car must surely be on speed) then it shows, pure and simply, that the car is inadequately designed for the task in hand. If an Ultima GTR has the world 0-100-0 record for a road car, and Caterhams can out accelerate a Corvette, then surely it just shows that the Corvette (in this example, but could be almost anything that relys on TC) isn't as good as it could be?

I knew I should have come up with a better scenario than the ellusive Black ice that people probably already know to watch out for when the conditions arise, but everything else will be met with a sassy reply demanding Colin McRae replace the said driver.

I'm just saying that maybe some drivers might infact suck enough that traction control near Gravel or some less ideal surface could be helpful.

Quote from Scawen :

Is there a (possibly empty) Blackwood autocross layout in the layouts folder?

Empty layouts have the undesirable effect of setting the number of laps.

Wait, so how do we clear the track layout when we want a clean park with no laps?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yup. Who'd want to buy a fast car and have a computer programmed by a spotty teenager tell them how much throttle you're allowed to use. I know I wouldn't. I don't approve of 'chipping' cars, but if I ever get a car with TC I'll be finding out how to get the damn thing removed (or at the very least default to off rather than on, and be 100% off when it says it's off, not 70% off like a lot are now).

I don't think Fiat/Ferrari, Honda, Porsche, or Pagani hire many newbies to work on their flagship sports cars.


Also, while TC is good on road cars, for the game. I don't think I'd be happy with the GTI having Race TC in any form.

(For those who want to debate a car that sees road time having TC, I will mention Black Ice and then ask if you've EVER taken a turn or driven a bit faster than what is PERFECTLY SAFE.)

Quote from tristancliffe :

It would be the quickest way to boost sales, but the quickest way to absolutely ruin the car. Drivers cars should not ever have TC.

What about the Honda S2000, Ferrari Enzo, Corvette, Ferrari 360 Modena and the Pagani Zonda?

TC is neccessary to get to the track and if you ever drive in not so ideal conditions, then I'm sure you'll welcome Traction Control on your sports car.

Also, the Ferrari Enzo has a race and an off mode for "driver aids", if race and off are two distinctive modes you can select from among the Traction Control Agressiveness and such, then there's obviously a need for Traction Control in some driver cars. Also, doesn't Traction Control make you slightly slower in all but the quickest of cars?

I'll give you some general advice:

One technique I used recently is to categorize turns. I went to the skidpad with my chosen car and ran around the pad seeing how slow I had to be in order to maintain a certain circle. stay outside the inner most circle if you want to see a drasticly sharp turn. I found myself getting around 50 in an easier turn, 40-45 in a medium turn and anything below 30 not being a turn. This was in an F1 car though with cold tires.

I'd say that you at least get around that pad though and see what the maximum speed is to stay within the circles or close to the 'wall'.

This will help you when you are making those hard turns and let you know how much you have to slow down to take a turn "with care"

I'd basically recommend taking a cautious approach to racing. Once you get a bit more confident around the track, go ahead and start gambling a bit and being a tad rougher.

You should also realize that some of the turns are rather harsh. Blackwood is a good example of this. It has some really brutal turns for anyone who just came in from arcade racing. Turn 1 and the turn after the long backstraight are very brutal.


Also:

Be careful with that throttle and with braking. Slamming on them lead to trouble sometimes. If you nail the throttle out of a corner you may oversteer and end up near the inside wall. If you nail the brakes you'll hurt the tires. Be a bit smooth on them.


So basically, be gentle and cautious when you are learning. Taking it too easy and losing the race is better than nailing the outside of a hairpin at 100 and ending up dead last. Also, the skid pad can give you a few numbers to use as a basic guide for the turns. Just use the numbers as a loose and general starting point. After you feel comfortable, rev it a little harder to see just what that turn is exactly made of.

Launch Control would kind of be cheating. I do however think that Traction Control (Or wheel spin reduction) and ABS would be good things to add. Just make them a little overbearing if it gives too much of an advantage. (Not to the point of gimping rookies, just to the point that you are basically going to get around faster with the stuff off.)

Quote from Lathafummi :

Have fun

That skin is dusting my wheel off. If it wasn't so late tonight I'd be putting that FZR through its paces.

An XBOX release with XBOX Live integration and PC integration with XBOX live servers. This will allow us to gain a broader market of 9-12 year old pale kids who can scream racial slurs over the microphone and play crappy music to add a neat background to the race. They can also add spice by crashing into people and using YOUR car as a wall in turns so they can make a harder turn without ending up in the grass while putting you in the grass at the same time.

This thread is for failed LFS ideas as opposed to real ones.

1) Whenever you race Hot Lap, how about a big flaming logo comes up with metal looking letters that say HOT LAP and then you can hear a cinema promo guy's voice scream HOT LAP!

2) The ability to add chrome spinners

3) The ability to add blue painted fire extinguishers so you can pretend you have 'DA NAWS'

4) Landmines, machine guns, and oil slicks

5) In game advertisements during races with sound on the side so Live For Speed can have extra funding to continue developing LFS. Imagine the fun of having Billy Mays suddenly appear to advertise Oxyclean which is followed by McDonalds....I'm loving it!

6) A whacky small cartoon character sidekick who looks like some sort of random animal thing and only serves to harass you as you drive 'WHOA LOOK OUT!!!!' or 'WOW THAT WAS A CLOSE SHAVE THERE BUB!' This would help us in obtaining a bigger userbase like it does for PS2

7) Tractor Trailers! Screw F1 cars with their dinky 7 speeds, this baby has 15!

I'd like to see a track like Bristol Motor Speedway. I already understand that we have Kyoto Ring, but a small track like Bristol is a whole different race track. You can't just stay on the gas the whole race, you have to actually brake for the turns since they are a bit less gentle.

Also, I'd still like to keep my selection for a dirt ring. Those are bundles of fun.