There are clearly game-based optimisations well worth making, as the visual fidelity of Batman is far above any other games I've played with it. In other games, the greater the depth, the greater the ghosting (even though most of the time it's not a bother). In Batman, it doesn't matter if it's low or high, everything looks flawlessly rendered.

Excitingly, it looks like Battlefield Bad Company 2 will be providing official support for it, too: http://gamers-underground.com/ ... a-schedule-announced.html

And I imagine many other developers will follow suit over the next 6-12 months due to the rise of consumer interest and entertainment industry backing.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

iRacing and LFS both show the ghosting a bit because of the large contrast against simple shapes (white lines on a dark background for example). That is a monitor limitation; the monitor just isn't fast enough white to black to eliminate the ghosting sometimes.

Afaik, it's a software (convergence) issue, not monitor.

There is no ghosting in Batman Arkham Asylum what-so-ever, but is in most other non official "Nvidia 3D Vision Ready" games.

Ah, yes - skin_y it is. Well, that's a shame that they're simply made available to use and/or modify if you know where to look.

Are there any still operating that anyone is aware of?

My skins_x folder is completely empty... and I've downloaded/seen dozens of custom skins on servers? Still don't get it.

Edit: Ah, there are plenty inside the "skins_dds" folder. I guess that's them?

Edit 2: those dds skins seem to be the default ones provided with LFS?

Hey guys - I've recently created a skin for myself and a friend, based on the gaming community we participate at.

We've uploaded them so it can be seen by others, but only him and I have the skin files. How is it possible that someone else joined our server wearing one of ours? He says he found it at Google [wtf] - but I haven't put the skin file anywhere except our PC's and LFS World.

When I see custom skins on the server, I don't have a way of using them myself, even though they've been downloaded to my machine to see them.

Or am I missing something?

Sorry to dig up an old thread - anyone know where to find this shadow layer?

Quote from roadrash17 :

Here is a link to the Pro-Kit Collection. It's a 37 MB RAR. Also includes other helpful templates. I didn't make ANY of the templates inside the RAR, So credit to the maker, mostly Master Skinnerz.

Legend.

I can - had a 7 hour session the other day and was fine.

But I know that certain people get headaches, other struggle to hold the 3D effect (people particularly long or short sighted etc). It's a minority though, as far as I can tell.

You need to adjust your convergence, Racer556.

I've turned my "depth" all the way down to remove the ghosting, then I've set my convergence so the cockpit looks roomy and not completely blurry.

Go into your Nvidia control panel, and enable advanced keyboard shortcuts for 3D vision. Then hold ctrl and hold f5 in game for 10 seconds, and then hold f6 for 10 seconds. You'll see a dramatic shift in how perspective is rendered.

Once you've found what you're happy with, hit ctrl + f7 to save it for that game.

Quote from Shotglass :

youre mixing better 3d techniques used on large cinema screen with technology that hasnt changed one bit used on very tiny ones
completely different ballpark

It most certainly has changed - evolution is still advancement, even if it's not a revolution. And for the record, the fidelity of image and quality of experience delivered with Nvidia's 3D Vision is far superior to my experiences in any cinema (Up! and Avatar are good examples).

Quote from Shotglass :

youre not understanding how this works at all
your eyes are always focused on the same depth which is the distance of your screen to your eyes and everything you see is actually at that depth
the 3d perception is only you looking more or less corsseyed which does create double image at whichever perceived depth youre not looking at

the thing is unlike in real 3d space all of those double images are seen by your eyes in perfect sharpness (depending on how good your eyes are of course) since they are all on the same focus distance
out in the real world however those double images are blurry which is the way they should look for the scene to feel natural

trouble is no 3d technology i know of and certainly none available to customers tracks your eyes crosseyedness to adjust the depth of field according to where your looking at and of course most games require you to see different 3d depths sharp (racing games are an extreme example where a dash some 50cm in front of you has to be readable as well as the corner brake markers 100m in front of you) so you cant just choose an arbitrary depth of field (eg wherever your crosshair is pointing at) and be done with it (with the exception of the previously mentioned cinematic games which expect you too look at whatever the game designer wants you to look at)

When I'm focusing on the road in LFS, the cockpit isn't. It may be nothing more than how in the same way that when you focus on the middle of your computer screen (say, this text input box), the task-bar down bottom is out of focus. But that's enough to create the illusion for me.

Quote from Shotglass :

40" is still way too tiny for the effect to work properly you need a screen that fills your entire field of view or at least the bit your imminently aware of which is why imax screens are so huge

I disagree whole-heartedly. My 22" is enough (when a couple feet away). As previously stated, good 3D isn't about throwing stuff at you, it's about dragging you in. Most of Avatar sets itself up so that the 3D world is inside of the screen - it doesn't try to pretend anything is coming out of it, or at you.


I'll also reiterate this, which you conveniently ignored:

Quote from rec :

I'm really not sure why I'm bothering to defend the product - most of the commercial and consumer world is against you on this one. Based on your statements, it seems you haven't even given Nvidia 3D Vision a few hours of personal use. Go play Arkham Asylum with it and get back to me with an opinion that's backed up by recent and relevant experience. I can unequivocally assure you that your stance will have changed...

You can argue this until the cows come home, but the 3D Blu-ray format was just finalised, TV's are out next year, films are being made with it in mind, sports and other TV have confirmed plans to film in stereoscopic... It's leaps and bounds ahead of the stereoscopic equipment I've tried in the past. Playing Batman Arkham Asylum is like having a whole micro-set with figureines set-up in front of you... just as clear, just as tangible. Feel free not to try it, though.

Last edited by jamieskella, Tue, 22 Dec 2009 06:48.

Quote :

nothing just that its age old technology that never really took off for good reason

Because it wasn't ready. 10 years of advancement does a lot for a product. And now big studios are adopting it.

Quote :

the whole thing is a relatively heavy pieve of kit (particularly when compared to better techniques such as polarisation filters or 3 colour comb filters used in dolby 3d)

Heavy? Not heavier than my pair of sunglasses.

Quote :

you need a high refresh rate monitor and still only get half the refresh rate so it will flicker to some degree (might be a bit better with the sample and hold tfts compared to crts which at 60hz meant horrible flickering) and the requirement of alternating images at 120hz means that the only viable panel technology for this is tn which are of course best known for being utterly rubbish

No flickering here. 120Hz Samsung LCD. That's 60Hz per eye, the same as what you would see on most LCD's. And even 60Hz LCD's don't "flicker" - that was a CRT characteristic. Also; nothing wrong with needing a high refresh rate panel. My old 22" CRT did 140Hz - we took a step back with LCD/plasma. It's about time we got back to where we once were. But yes, this Samsung panel I'm using is absolute rubbish. But I've only bought it for games. My graphic design is done on my other screen.

Quote :

also 3d in games always looks off since you cant use depth of field (with the exception of cinematic games) which means that everything will be in focus regardless of depth which just looks off in every which way

The depth is created by your own vision. When I'm looking down the sights in Modern Warfare 2, my gun is blurry, because I'm not focusing on it. However, like in real life, I can focus on that instead, and then the distance in blurry. The only time it would all be crisp is if I had the depth set very low.

Quote :

lastly and this is by far the biggest problem with all 3d on a screen... the whole thing doesnt work properly unless the screen is gigantic
the thing is as soon as you become aware of the depth of the edge of your screen in actual space everything that is 3d on the screen moves into the the screen and cannot appear in front of the screen

40" and larger panels will be out by June 2010 for the World Cup 3D broadcasts. But I don't share your concern here anyway - I'm on a 22" and it's amazingly immersive. Good 3D isn't about throwing stuff at you, it's about dragging you in.


I'm really not sure why I'm bothering to defend the product - most of the commercial and consumer world is against you on this one. Based on your statements, it seems you haven't even given Nvidia 3D Vision a few hours of personal use. Go play Arkham Asylum with it and get back to me with an opinion that's backed up by recent and relevant experience. I can unequivocally assure you that your stance will have changed...

Last edited by jamieskella, Tue, 22 Dec 2009 06:12.

I can't find the Toyota one in the BF1 thread. Can someone please link? The only Toyota 2006 skin there is linked off-site, and that link is broken.

Last edited by jamieskella, Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:08.

iRacing has the same "issues" as LFS, as does rFactor. They're still good, but could be much better. As mentioned, I'd love to see LFS be the first with full support, as I personally think it's the best of the bunch.

And yes; CoD is great. Playing Modern Warfare 2 in 3D blew my mind. But, it still has some small issues. None as big as ghosting/convergence issues, but the crosshair is rendered in 2D and does not adjust with the 3D depth, so you need to disable it and enable the hardware crosshair.

I beg to differ... as does Hollywood, as does the next generation of television broadcasting.

A lot changes in 10 years of technology. Go see Avatar, or better yet try Nvidia 3D Vision. There's nothing flawed about playing Arkham Asylum - the quality of image as good as sharp and detailed as playing it normally, but in 3D; like looking out a window. It's truly surreal.

Depends on how much I'd get paid?

EeekiE; the issue with your convergence settings is that ghosting then becomes apparent on everything down the track - especially at high depth levels. The clouds look particularly strange.

Unfortunately without proper LFS support for 3D, there's no way to get it set-up just right. I personally just leave the depth all the way down, and tweak the convergence so there's no ghosting at all.

It means the 3D effect is quite small, but at least everything looks right.


On another note; Nvidia 3D Vision is most certainly not just a gimmick for other games. I agree with zapz on this one, and so does virtually every review on them. It's the first time ever that a 3D product works as advertised. In actual fact, it works far better in various other types of games than it does in racers/flight sims.

A prime example is Batman Arkham Asylum. It's a 3rd person action title, and has brilliant support for 3D Vision - the best, in fact. Everything appears as perfect as it would in the real world. It appears like there's a living, breathing 3D world inside your monitor that's incredibly believable - as real as the coffee cup sitting beside it. Immersive and absolutely spectacular.

3D is the new big thing. Avatar at the cinema, the 2010 World Cup on our TV and Batman Arkham Asylum on our PC - all with 3D firmly in mind.

Avatar has created a cinematic revolution, the FIFA World Cup in 3D will ensure tens of thousands of new 3D capable televisions are sold, and Batman Arkham Asylum has proven that when done right, 3D on the PC is the pinnacle of the technology.

But that's the problem; Rocksteady Studios are the only team to capatalise on this. It looks absolutely breathtaking with Nvidia's 3D Vision setup. No ghosting, perfect depth perception. It feels like what you're seeing a tangible objects in front of your monitor. You think you can reach out and touch it.

I haven't met many that would argue against my stance that the best application for 3D gaming is surely in aircraft and land vehicle sims and arcade games. I'm currently using my Nvidia 3D Vision package to play LFS, and it's good, but flawed. The core problem is ghosting due to convergence at different distances makes it impossible to use accurate depth settings. There is also no in-game gamma setting, so everything looks quite dark in 3D.

I'm hoping that LFS can be the first mainstream consumer-focused race sim to successfully adopt 3D support.