Hm, that wasn´t my point, Marsh.
Yes, the people normally control in what political direction a country goes. Maybe with a demonstartion, at least when they vote,... But that doesn´t prove that they are free in their decision of what´s right or wrong, or in whitch direction the country should go at best. Your judgement can just be as good as the information you get. And when you are surroundet by wrong facts it´s impossible to get to the right answers.
Edit: Major correction of the first sentence for a better understanding
Yes, the people normally control in what political direction a country goes. Maybe with a demonstartion, at least when they vote,... But that doesn´t prove that they are free in their decision of what´s right or wrong, or in whitch direction the country should go at best. Your judgement can just be as good as the information you get. And when you are surroundet by wrong facts it´s impossible to get to the right answers.
Edit: Major correction of the first sentence for a better understanding
Last edited by RoadRunner, .
Hehe, yes but imo it´s very unlikely, that a government has the power to manipulate an election in this way. The only thing they can do is to control our opinions. When you would manipulate the election process itself, there would be to many people knowing about it. On the other hand it´s silly why so many elections are using more and more computers for the voting process itself, for example. There is no need to do it, and it gives the option to tweak the results much easier then with a pen and paper election.
But there is also an intersting thing when you vote in my electoral district. We do not have ballpens for our election or something else that is good for documents, no we use pencils... Oo I mean... WTF? What are they doing, when they are counting the votes? Is the number of sold rubbers significantly increasing in the voting periode?
But seriously: I don´t think that manipulation is a big point in that. It works more subtle and most of the things are legal in democracy. And manipulating opinions is the main part about it. It´s just a question of useful open discussion or spreading lies/opinions with the power of the mass media. Besides the US, Italy with Berlusconi is a good example for this, although it works quite different there.
But there is also an intersting thing when you vote in my electoral district. We do not have ballpens for our election or something else that is good for documents, no we use pencils... Oo I mean... WTF? What are they doing, when they are counting the votes? Is the number of sold rubbers significantly increasing in the voting periode?
But seriously: I don´t think that manipulation is a big point in that. It works more subtle and most of the things are legal in democracy. And manipulating opinions is the main part about it. It´s just a question of useful open discussion or spreading lies/opinions with the power of the mass media. Besides the US, Italy with Berlusconi is a good example for this, although it works quite different there.
Last edited by RoadRunner, .
Hi everyone 
This is a really interesting discussion for two reasons.
As a german I really know how it feels to get attacked just because of your nationality. “Heil Hitler” and “Nazi **** of” are the nicer comments from this people. All you can do, is to leave the server and wonder how some guys can be so stupid. Idiots live everywhere. The sad part of this story is, that this nazi-comments mostly come from two countrys in the northwest. Funny, that I especially like these countrys most of all european countrys. Fate...
Anyways:
On the other hand it´s also very intersting to have the possility to discuss directly with you americans about the political things, witch are the origin of their problems on the servers.
I really can not understand comments like Infinitis. How can you have such an one dimensional viewpoint to your countrys political actions? Why can a US citizen like Hallen be so confident of the democratic system, while living in a country where it works so bad, worse then in nearly any other country in the world?
Please stop talking about the USA as a free country. It is all theoretical nonsense! All this babble about the land of the free and the power of the masses is imo absolutly bullshit. It just sounds like a mantra the citizens have to repeat all the time to make themselves believe it. I would be quite happy to say that it´s better in "old europe", but I think it´s a lie on each side of the ocean. We are all media controlled voting livestock. But there is still an important difference: When I look to your country, I see a media industry that was afraid to raise some critical voices against the irak war. That´s a point to get seriously worried about, not just because of your massive military power.
There is a (at least at the second election) regulary voted president who is not ashamed to lie as hell to accomplish his (or his financiers) inhuman politics. A Condoleezza Rice who is lying about the fact, that the us military is torturing innocent people with the knowledge of the government. A Dick Cheney who would perfectly fit to our goddamn NPD party... how can such a man be acceptalbe to your nation? A barefaced Donald Rumsfeld lying to the UN by pretending facts about Saddams weapons of mass destuction. His presentation just made me want to puke. It´s like losing the little rest of faith in the world politics in just a few minutes. And in the end there is a nation legalizing all this by still supporting this government. WTF?
How can a nation be so brainless? Or is it just ignorant?
I saw the movie “Hotel Rwanda” some weeks ago. I can only recommend this film to everyone who doesn´t understand how perverted our “democracy” is. This film establishes the question, how it was possible that the whole western world was looking a bit bored at the genozide where 75% - 90% of the Tutsi were murdered and doing just nothing. The answer the movie gives is as simple as it gets close to the truth: A living african isn´t worth one stupid vote on the next election.
The world is never like the propaganda, the media wants to make you believe. It´s so important to understand this. It doesn´t mean that the press ist always wrong, but it´s always just a small window you are looking through and in the worst case the window grate warps the picture to a lie.
I can highly recommend you to read the speech of Harold Pinter he held after winning the literature Nobel Prize. The interesting part of this speech begins with the following sentence: “Political language, as used by politicians, does not venture into any of this territory since the majority of politicians, on the evidence available to us, are interested not in truth but in power and in the maintenance of that power.” If you are interested in it you might search for this cut. It´s definatly worth the time the reading takes
http://www.counterpunch.org/pinter12072005.html
Ps.: I hope nobody feels harmed because of the written, the main reason for it might be my bad english knowledge. I hope it´s not to bad, so you understand what I want to say And if some things sound a bit rude, they aren´t ment to
This is a really interesting discussion for two reasons.
As a german I really know how it feels to get attacked just because of your nationality. “Heil Hitler” and “Nazi **** of” are the nicer comments from this people. All you can do, is to leave the server and wonder how some guys can be so stupid. Idiots live everywhere. The sad part of this story is, that this nazi-comments mostly come from two countrys in the northwest. Funny, that I especially like these countrys most of all european countrys. Fate...
Anyways:
On the other hand it´s also very intersting to have the possility to discuss directly with you americans about the political things, witch are the origin of their problems on the servers.
I really can not understand comments like Infinitis. How can you have such an one dimensional viewpoint to your countrys political actions? Why can a US citizen like Hallen be so confident of the democratic system, while living in a country where it works so bad, worse then in nearly any other country in the world?
Please stop talking about the USA as a free country. It is all theoretical nonsense! All this babble about the land of the free and the power of the masses is imo absolutly bullshit. It just sounds like a mantra the citizens have to repeat all the time to make themselves believe it. I would be quite happy to say that it´s better in "old europe", but I think it´s a lie on each side of the ocean. We are all media controlled voting livestock. But there is still an important difference: When I look to your country, I see a media industry that was afraid to raise some critical voices against the irak war. That´s a point to get seriously worried about, not just because of your massive military power.
There is a (at least at the second election) regulary voted president who is not ashamed to lie as hell to accomplish his (or his financiers) inhuman politics. A Condoleezza Rice who is lying about the fact, that the us military is torturing innocent people with the knowledge of the government. A Dick Cheney who would perfectly fit to our goddamn NPD party... how can such a man be acceptalbe to your nation? A barefaced Donald Rumsfeld lying to the UN by pretending facts about Saddams weapons of mass destuction. His presentation just made me want to puke. It´s like losing the little rest of faith in the world politics in just a few minutes. And in the end there is a nation legalizing all this by still supporting this government. WTF?
How can a nation be so brainless? Or is it just ignorant?
I saw the movie “Hotel Rwanda” some weeks ago. I can only recommend this film to everyone who doesn´t understand how perverted our “democracy” is. This film establishes the question, how it was possible that the whole western world was looking a bit bored at the genozide where 75% - 90% of the Tutsi were murdered and doing just nothing. The answer the movie gives is as simple as it gets close to the truth: A living african isn´t worth one stupid vote on the next election.
The world is never like the propaganda, the media wants to make you believe. It´s so important to understand this. It doesn´t mean that the press ist always wrong, but it´s always just a small window you are looking through and in the worst case the window grate warps the picture to a lie.
I can highly recommend you to read the speech of Harold Pinter he held after winning the literature Nobel Prize. The interesting part of this speech begins with the following sentence: “Political language, as used by politicians, does not venture into any of this territory since the majority of politicians, on the evidence available to us, are interested not in truth but in power and in the maintenance of that power.” If you are interested in it you might search for this cut. It´s definatly worth the time the reading takes
http://www.counterpunch.org/pinter12072005.html
Ps.: I hope nobody feels harmed because of the written, the main reason for it might be my bad english knowledge.
I hope it´s not to bad, so you understand what I want to say And if some things sound a bit rude, they aren´t ment to
Last edited by RoadRunner, .
Thats an interesting thread
I was wondering why so many of you know "Das Boot"
Here is my list:
-Pulp Fiction
-The shawshank redemption
-Memento
-Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi
-Princess Mononoke (these Miyazaki films are so great)
-The Godfather (maybe except part 3)
-Le fabuleux destin d´Amélie Poulain
-Das Boot
-Enemy mine
-Blues Brothers
-High Fidelity (Jack Black rocks)
I was wondering why so many of you know "Das Boot"
Here is my list:
-Pulp Fiction
-The shawshank redemption
-Memento
-Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi
-Princess Mononoke (these Miyazaki films are so great
)-The Godfather (maybe except part 3)
-Le fabuleux destin d´Amélie Poulain
-Das Boot
-Enemy mine
-Blues Brothers
-High Fidelity (Jack Black rocks
)You simply don´t know how fast Drago is...
Jeep, Pallukka?? Just names from good old times.
MacEST is really good, yes! N1lyn, too (why didn´t you mention him? He is the best of them all)
The others may equal Drago, but they are not better!
But I´ll quit from this thread now... Thats so senseless.
And btw: I also think that we are not the fastest of all teams, but we still deserve to be in the list.
Jeep, Pallukka?? Just names from good old times.
MacEST is really good, yes! N1lyn, too (why didn´t you mention him? He is the best of them all)
The others may equal Drago, but they are not better!
But I´ll quit from this thread now... Thats so senseless.
And btw: I also think that we are not the fastest of all teams, but we still deserve to be in the list.
You are kidding...
Name me 5
Quite stupid discussion in a thread like this btw. I´m sorry for that, but I can´t let Orions stupid posts stay here without a comment.
And in the end it´s not only drago who goes really fast. Plz take a look at
-Biernot
-majestic
-jay
-dahoe
-jenzen
All slow, aren´t they, Orion?
Name me 5
Quite stupid discussion in a thread like this btw. I´m sorry for that, but I can´t let Orions stupid posts stay here without a comment.
And in the end it´s not only drago who goes really fast. Plz take a look at
-Biernot
-majestic
-jay
-dahoe
-jenzen
All slow, aren´t they, Orion?
So you only want the teams you would vote for to be nominated? Thats funny. Why don´t you release an "Orion thinks these teams are the best" list? Everybody will be keen on reading it, I think ^^
Yeah, but I was also wondering why ZT is nominated to be the friendliest team. I mean: Orion is still a ZT member Oo
Anyways: Drago rocks
Anyways: Drago rocks
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG