TSW 6 Speed H-Shifter Review
http://thomas-superwheel.com/t ... m_virtuemart&Itemid=1
This is probably the most expensive and least documented shifter out there. After debating for some time, I decided to purchase one. It arrived today. I will try to document all details on the shifter for the benefit of anyone else who would like to learn more about it.
Packaging
Arrived in a relatively big heavy box. About 11lbs. The shifter and its accessories were tightly wrapped in paper.
The package included:
1x Shifter fully assembled to order specs.
1x Mount
4x Nuts for mount
4x Washers for mount
1x USB cable
1x Instruction manual
1x Piece of black pained wood.
Initial Impressions
1. Build Quality
The shifter is all metal. All internal components are metal. The boot is made of soft leather. Only plastic component is the external housing of the electronics which also bears the TSW logo. It is extremely solid. If you can find a way to break anything on the shifter, you need to be entered in the Guiness Book of World Records!
2. Mounting
The mount is surprisingly solid. Although from the images it doesn't appear to be stable, it is actually very, very stable! I found a way to mount it in my Obutto, and surprisingly it worked quite well. In fact, I feel that it's mounted much more solidly than my previous G25 shifter. I really don't see how anyone could yank this out of place. Interesting bit is you don't need a lot of force to tighten the clamps.
More on mounting later on.
3. Features
6 gears + 1 reverse gate.
- Reverse Gate
The reverse gate position is specified at order time. I ordered right and down. Same as G25 setup (although that's really push down into 6th.) The TSW shifter has a separate gate for the reverse. The reverse gate is spring loaded, so it takes effort to push it over into the reverse slot. That way you can't accidentally throw it in reverse.
- Gate lockout
The shifter can be converted from a 6 speed to a 4 speed. There is a nut you can tighten to prevent the shifter from going into 1st and 2nd gear. I'm guessing the lock out of the gears has to do with how you order your reverse gate position. If you order reverse gate position on the left, the lockout would probably lock 5-6 slots instead. The lockout nut and the reverse gate spring sit opposite each other on my setup.
- Neutral button switch
There is a small switch that toggles the shifter in either pressing a 7th button when in neutral, or pressing nothing. This has to do with how some games recognize the shifter.
- USB Plug & Play
The shifter plugs with a USB cable directly into the PC. There are no drivers to install. Windows automatically recognizes the shifter and maps 8 buttons to it. 6 gears + 1 reverse + 1 optional neutral.
- Mount
The shifter can be mounted a number of ways, however some positions are limited by the external electronics housing box. Best way to mount the shifter is as advertised. However it is still quite easy to be creative and find other ways of mounting it.
4. Feel
This is the probably the most important feature of any shifter. I'll break it down.
- Shifting Force
Surprisingly the shift offers only slightly more resistance than the G25's shifter when sliding it in gear. Very little force is required to move the shifter into the gates. Fanatec shifters on the other hand require much more force to put into gear. However, since it's all metal, you can bang it around as much as you want and shift it as hard as you want! Even the manual says best way to shift is hard and fast! If you shift hard and fast, you don't even notice that very little force is required to shift. In fact, it feels as if you're really forcing the shifter into the gate. Feels almost the same as when you go to the arcade and bang around those shifters. Solid as a rock.
There is also a certain mechanical feel to it, as if you're shifting metal components internally. All of this is due to the ball detent mechanism of course, and even though it is quite simple, it still feels good. Overall, provides a very pleasant feel and gives you confidence in shifting.
Update
Turns out that if you tighten the nut on the bottom shaft it tightens the overall gate movement resistance. So you can actually adjust how easily you can throw the shifter into and out of gear.
- Gates
The gates are guided by a metal gate plate. There is a tiny bit of play in the gates, however nothing major, and certainly won't cause you to miss any shifts (unlike the 3-4 slots of the G25 shifter.) The gears are also engaged quite early when shifting into the slot, so gear changes are quite fast.
- Throw
Even though the shifter sits taller, the throw is not long at all. It's actually quite a normal throw. A bit longer than the G25's shifter. About the same as a short shifter on a real car. I didn't need much time to get used to it Feels quite natural.
- Knob
The knob is a bit small. It feels more like shifting a stick than a ball. The optional carbon style knob I ordered is actually smaller in diameter than the G25's shifter knob, and also a bit smaller in diameter than the standard ball knob available.
5. Internals
Everything inside the shifter is metal and can be seen by just looking under the shifter. The shifter housing has no bottom!
The shifter works pretty much the same way most of the shifters on the market do.
There is a ball detent mechanism that keeps it in gear, and two parallel springs that keep it centered.
The gears are guided by a metal plate which is under the leather boot.
Each gear is selected via button that has a long metal extension that is depressed when the shifter is in gear.
There is grease on the internal components so I don't advise to stick your fingers in there. ...or any other appendages.
6. Modding
So far I'm just taking guesses at what could be done to the shifter by looking at it.
Not sure how much potential this shifter has for modding, but definitely looks easy to disassemble and reassemble. Given that all internals are exposed from underneath, you don't really need to do much if you want to do stuff to it.
- Knob
It is not possible to mod this yourself. Choose carefully when ordering. The knob is attached via a very tight locking mechanism and TSW does not recommend taking it apart as the procedure is complicated. They will happily change it for you if you send back the shifter though.
- Centering spring
It looks quite possible to replace the centering springs with stiffer ones, or even shove something in them to make them stiffer.
- Gear force
Unfortunately, unlike the G25, I don't see how it's possible to mess with the ball detent mechanism to create more resistance. However, it is possible to tighten the nut on the pivot bolt to increase the overall resistance when moving the shifter in and out of gear. This would not only tighten the resistance of putting the shifter into gear, but also the resistance when taking it out of gear.
7. Value
At nearly $400 this is an expensive accessory. You can easily accomplish the same tasks with many other shifters, even mod some of them to get them to your liking. However no other shifter is made out of all metal components. It also looks very maintainable in the long run, and appears that it should easily outlive any other peripheral you may own.
Is it worth it? That depends on you. If you're going for quality, you can find a million ways to justify the cost. If you're not as serious about your sim racing gear, you'll easily find just as many ways to not justify the cost.
I'm happy to answer any questions about it, as I personally had a very hard time finding info on this shifter.
Complete picture gallery:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ma ... aj2EQ&feat=directlink
This is probably the most expensive and least documented shifter out there. After debating for some time, I decided to purchase one. It arrived today. I will try to document all details on the shifter for the benefit of anyone else who would like to learn more about it.
Packaging
Arrived in a relatively big heavy box. About 11lbs. The shifter and its accessories were tightly wrapped in paper.
The package included:
1x Shifter fully assembled to order specs.
1x Mount
4x Nuts for mount
4x Washers for mount
1x USB cable
1x Instruction manual
1x Piece of black pained wood.
Initial Impressions
1. Build Quality
The shifter is all metal. All internal components are metal. The boot is made of soft leather. Only plastic component is the external housing of the electronics which also bears the TSW logo. It is extremely solid. If you can find a way to break anything on the shifter, you need to be entered in the Guiness Book of World Records!
2. Mounting
The mount is surprisingly solid. Although from the images it doesn't appear to be stable, it is actually very, very stable! I found a way to mount it in my Obutto, and surprisingly it worked quite well. In fact, I feel that it's mounted much more solidly than my previous G25 shifter. I really don't see how anyone could yank this out of place. Interesting bit is you don't need a lot of force to tighten the clamps.
More on mounting later on.
3. Features
6 gears + 1 reverse gate.
- Reverse Gate
The reverse gate position is specified at order time. I ordered right and down. Same as G25 setup (although that's really push down into 6th.) The TSW shifter has a separate gate for the reverse. The reverse gate is spring loaded, so it takes effort to push it over into the reverse slot. That way you can't accidentally throw it in reverse.
- Gate lockout
The shifter can be converted from a 6 speed to a 4 speed. There is a nut you can tighten to prevent the shifter from going into 1st and 2nd gear. I'm guessing the lock out of the gears has to do with how you order your reverse gate position. If you order reverse gate position on the left, the lockout would probably lock 5-6 slots instead. The lockout nut and the reverse gate spring sit opposite each other on my setup.
- Neutral button switch
There is a small switch that toggles the shifter in either pressing a 7th button when in neutral, or pressing nothing. This has to do with how some games recognize the shifter.
- USB Plug & Play
The shifter plugs with a USB cable directly into the PC. There are no drivers to install. Windows automatically recognizes the shifter and maps 8 buttons to it. 6 gears + 1 reverse + 1 optional neutral.
- Mount
The shifter can be mounted a number of ways, however some positions are limited by the external electronics housing box. Best way to mount the shifter is as advertised. However it is still quite easy to be creative and find other ways of mounting it.
4. Feel
This is the probably the most important feature of any shifter. I'll break it down.
- Shifting Force
Surprisingly the shift offers only slightly more resistance than the G25's shifter when sliding it in gear. Very little force is required to move the shifter into the gates. Fanatec shifters on the other hand require much more force to put into gear. However, since it's all metal, you can bang it around as much as you want and shift it as hard as you want! Even the manual says best way to shift is hard and fast! If you shift hard and fast, you don't even notice that very little force is required to shift. In fact, it feels as if you're really forcing the shifter into the gate. Feels almost the same as when you go to the arcade and bang around those shifters. Solid as a rock.
There is also a certain mechanical feel to it, as if you're shifting metal components internally. All of this is due to the ball detent mechanism of course, and even though it is quite simple, it still feels good. Overall, provides a very pleasant feel and gives you confidence in shifting.
Update
Turns out that if you tighten the nut on the bottom shaft it tightens the overall gate movement resistance. So you can actually adjust how easily you can throw the shifter into and out of gear.
- Gates
The gates are guided by a metal gate plate. There is a tiny bit of play in the gates, however nothing major, and certainly won't cause you to miss any shifts (unlike the 3-4 slots of the G25 shifter.) The gears are also engaged quite early when shifting into the slot, so gear changes are quite fast.
- Throw
Even though the shifter sits taller, the throw is not long at all. It's actually quite a normal throw. A bit longer than the G25's shifter. About the same as a short shifter on a real car. I didn't need much time to get used to it Feels quite natural.
- Knob
The knob is a bit small. It feels more like shifting a stick than a ball. The optional carbon style knob I ordered is actually smaller in diameter than the G25's shifter knob, and also a bit smaller in diameter than the standard ball knob available.
5. Internals
Everything inside the shifter is metal and can be seen by just looking under the shifter. The shifter housing has no bottom!
The shifter works pretty much the same way most of the shifters on the market do.
There is a ball detent mechanism that keeps it in gear, and two parallel springs that keep it centered.
The gears are guided by a metal plate which is under the leather boot.
Each gear is selected via button that has a long metal extension that is depressed when the shifter is in gear.
There is grease on the internal components so I don't advise to stick your fingers in there. ...or any other appendages.
6. Modding
So far I'm just taking guesses at what could be done to the shifter by looking at it.
Not sure how much potential this shifter has for modding, but definitely looks easy to disassemble and reassemble. Given that all internals are exposed from underneath, you don't really need to do much if you want to do stuff to it.
- Knob
It is not possible to mod this yourself. Choose carefully when ordering. The knob is attached via a very tight locking mechanism and TSW does not recommend taking it apart as the procedure is complicated. They will happily change it for you if you send back the shifter though.
- Centering spring
It looks quite possible to replace the centering springs with stiffer ones, or even shove something in them to make them stiffer.
- Gear force
Unfortunately, unlike the G25, I don't see how it's possible to mess with the ball detent mechanism to create more resistance. However, it is possible to tighten the nut on the pivot bolt to increase the overall resistance when moving the shifter in and out of gear. This would not only tighten the resistance of putting the shifter into gear, but also the resistance when taking it out of gear.
7. Value
At nearly $400 this is an expensive accessory. You can easily accomplish the same tasks with many other shifters, even mod some of them to get them to your liking. However no other shifter is made out of all metal components. It also looks very maintainable in the long run, and appears that it should easily outlive any other peripheral you may own.
Is it worth it? That depends on you. If you're going for quality, you can find a million ways to justify the cost. If you're not as serious about your sim racing gear, you'll easily find just as many ways to not justify the cost.
I'm happy to answer any questions about it, as I personally had a very hard time finding info on this shifter.
Complete picture gallery:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ma ... aj2EQ&feat=directlink
Last edited by Skills, .
Nice review niels. 
It makes me wonder though that if you think that Fanatec has created a G25 competitor after it fixes all the issues, at a $100 dollar premium over the G25, shouldn't it be crushing the competition, not just competing?
One minor nit pick, you mention that the wheel's engine cover is metallic, its actually plastic.
It makes me wonder though that if you think that Fanatec has created a G25 competitor after it fixes all the issues, at a $100 dollar premium over the G25, shouldn't it be crushing the competition, not just competing?
One minor nit pick, you mention that the wheel's engine cover is metallic, its actually plastic.
If you guys can set up a bug/issue tracking repository on your website it could make your life a lot easier. I develop software products at my job and get tons of daily feedback from screaming bankers that cant do their trades right (and they're much ruder than I am
), because the software i give them isn't 100% (or crap), so I know how you feel.You may not have the time to put something up, but here is an idea:
Create a thread with issues only, no comments and sarcasm (we'll reserve that for this thread), and we'll put all our issues in there and make sure not to overlap. An admin or moderator can help you delete or mark posts as complete.
"De-installation of old driver should be fixed now."
Is that the only thing that has been fixed??
Is there a read-me anywhere?
I'm sorry but this is becoming just too easy to flame.
I know I'll be burning in hell, but what the heck, lets do give it another shot.
Right on with you! :drink:
Here's some more sarcasm:
The 911 Turbo Wheel is so realistic, it has real car problems!
:flamed:
Last edited by Skills, .
I haven't tried, but even so that wouldn't fix the rest of my issues with it. I've acknoledged that all technically related issues, such as falling apart components, impossible to install drivers, etc... will be fixed.
My major qualms are with the design decisions made for this wheel, and these hardware issues which clearly live up to their "Made In China" logo are just to boot.
heh
So I guess I've sort of lost interest in trying to fix these, other than rant about how much this wheel sucks. Which probably makes the worst person to give any sort of objective comment on how this product fairs.
I'm ready to give a long list of improvements on how this wheel can be made the best wheel ever, but so far no response from Fanatec, and therefore no real incentive to do so.
I'll stick around just in case im convinced otherwise. I'm not a G25 fan boy, even though I love it now more than ever, I just think that for the promises Fanatec made and the price tag they slapped on, this wheel is crap. If on the other hand this wheel cost $100, I'd be saying "This wheel is the best shit ever!"
My major qualms are with the design decisions made for this wheel, and these hardware issues which clearly live up to their "Made In China" logo are just to boot.
heh
So I guess I've sort of lost interest in trying to fix these, other than rant about how much this wheel sucks. Which probably makes the worst person to give any sort of objective comment on how this product fairs.
I'm ready to give a long list of improvements on how this wheel can be made the best wheel ever, but so far no response from Fanatec, and therefore no real incentive to do so.
I'll stick around just in case im convinced otherwise. I'm not a G25 fan boy, even though I love it now more than ever, I just think that for the promises Fanatec made and the price tag they slapped on, this wheel is crap. If on the other hand this wheel cost $100, I'd be saying "This wheel is the best shit ever!"
Last edited by Skills, .
I will test G25 specifically for this, but I can swear I have never heard that sound out of it for the 2 years ive owned it (and abused it).
Ive only had the 911 wheel for 3 full days, and it started making that sound only yesterday. The 4 screws fell out yesterday as well, and today its making the rattling sound. Maybe the 4 screws were supposed to hold something in place, and now its rattling?
I dunno.
I want to vent some more, so here we go:
On top of these issues, im a bit disappointed with the ergonomics of this wheel. I cannot find a comfortable position where I can sit, see my computer screen, and be able to press the pedals without them lifting off the ground.
The wheel doesn't fit well into my home made cockpit, because its angled much more than usual, and the when I shift gears, the added torque from the side feels like it will destroy my cockpit, and causes the wheel to come loose.
The best fitting position ive found is clamping it to my desk, but the driving position is anything but natural and after a while I got tired from sitting upright.
On the flipside, once I clamped it to my desk, I discovered how easy it is to attach and detach from the desk, making it very convenient to stow away and set it up again. But again, whats the focus of this wheel, to provide a realistic driving experience, or to let the user put it away faster??
I also can't stand the flex in the shifter. It actually causes me to misshift. The sequential shifter seems to solve that problem, but then what's the point of the H-box??
The wheel does have some very neat features, like the LED, the PC/PS3 buttons, nice round grip, a Porsche logo, but honestly, none of these features contribute to driving faster laps. Remember, you're targeting simracers, not a bunch of mooks who want to show their friends how they can't afford a porsche at the moment, so they got the next best thing.
The buttons are also placed a bit odd. When I hold the wheel in the 3 and 9 o'clock positions, the edge of my palms hit the 1 and 7 buttons. Also the paddle shifters align with neither my index or middle fingers, only my 3rd and pinky (the most useless fingers we have), so it makes it inconvenient even to use the paddles.
I can't get the pedals to stay in place!! I tried it on the carpet, yes it grips great, but when i heel toe, the whole pedal set tips forward!
How can I be on the clutch, the brake, and the gas at the same time and not have this super light weight pedal set not give in to the forces of my feet??
The clutch pedal is very nice. The only mass production wheel that actually attempts to simulate the feel of a real clutch. But getting 1/3 pedals right isn't good enough. The brake shouldn't stop functioning, where the real life brake begins to function! And whats up with this super flimsy gas pedal? It's like I'm stepping on air!
I'm only this frustrated because I'm trying real hard to like this wheel, but with every attempt to like it, I find more and more faults with it.
I've decided that if the G25 carries the same quality as Gran Turismo does for the playstation, where its not perfect, but its pretty damn solid, this 911 wheel is like Need For Speed, plenty of special effects, but the true real feel is left out.
Fanatec,
This wheel needs a soul, and you need to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to put one in.
There are some very simple and practical things missing from this wheel that prevent it from being what its supposed to be.
We can tell you what those things are, and its not hard to figure out what they are. If you guys want to compete with the G25 look at all the things its doing right, and improve only on the things that its doing wrong. Look at other wheels as well, but the G25 is pretty much the market leader where your product fits in.
Only then you will be able to win the market over and expect people to pay you a premium over your competitors.
Personally, I think this wheel needs a lot of work, and I will be sending it back to you. Again, I will be happy to sit down with someone from your team and give better and constructive feedback for the issues I've experienced (because obviously this is just a rant), and we all want a better wheel, so if this is something that will help in your process of delivering such a product, then its worth it.
If you don't feel like the issues here are legitimate enough and you just want to sell some units, then so be it.
At this moment, my G25 is far superior in quality to the 911 unit I have and I do not wish to pay anything to keep this wheel. Sorry
I really like this shrug icon. I feel like its been very appropriate for all my posts ...
Last edited by Skills, .
Ok, it's been 2 days since I reported my hardware issue to Fanatec. No response on email, and no response on forum.
My wheel is making more funny noises, and I can't help but think that this wheel is complete crap!
Sorry, I can't help myself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Jko6eN10Y
Fanatec, I apologize for the sarcasm, but I couldn't help myself. I need a little cheering up because I'm getting frustrated with the quality of this wheel.
If you want me to give you detailed feedback about these issues, you know where to reach me, I already reached out to you guys on your support page.
My wheel is making more funny noises, and I can't help but think that this wheel is complete crap!
Sorry, I can't help myself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Jko6eN10Y
Fanatec, I apologize for the sarcasm, but I couldn't help myself. I need a little cheering up because I'm getting frustrated with the quality of this wheel.
If you want me to give you detailed feedback about these issues, you know where to reach me, I already reached out to you guys on your support page.
Hmm... I don't know what that means, but it sounds smart. I agree!Where did the Fanatec guys go?
My wheel is falling apart here, now I hear some kind of a squealing sound when I turn the wheel, similar to the sound that a car makes when it needs its engine belts replaced.
Anyone?
My wheel is falling apart here, now I hear some kind of a squealing sound when I turn the wheel, similar to the sound that a car makes when it needs its engine belts replaced.
Anyone?
Some more issues:
I'm having trouble getting the pedals to stay in place. I have a smooth floor, and the rubber ends don't seem to be doing anything.
I tried playing with the lap wings today, and what an interesting experience.
I found that the wheel and shifter are in a very comfortable position, but the driving experience is simply awful! Since the wheel is in your lap:
1. the force feedback shakes it all over the place
2. shifting gears moves the wheel around in your lap
3. you can't heel and toe, because when you lift your feet, you move the wheel! :doh:
Also, the following 4 screws decided to just come out of the wheel
ArrAssAdor, any idea where these came from and why they came out?
I'm really trying to like this wheel, but I don't think its liking me back. Maybe because it knows I have a G25?
Just kidding.
I'm having trouble getting the pedals to stay in place. I have a smooth floor, and the rubber ends don't seem to be doing anything.
I tried playing with the lap wings today, and what an interesting experience.
I found that the wheel and shifter are in a very comfortable position, but the driving experience is simply awful! Since the wheel is in your lap:
1. the force feedback shakes it all over the place
2. shifting gears moves the wheel around in your lap
3. you can't heel and toe, because when you lift your feet, you move the wheel! :doh:
Also, the following 4 screws decided to just come out of the wheel
ArrAssAdor, any idea where these came from and why they came out?
I'm really trying to like this wheel, but I don't think its liking me back. Maybe because it knows I have a G25?
Just kidding.
Last edited by Skills, .
Got my wheel yesterday, and I've posted my first impressions with plenty of pics here:
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=115
I have pics of the internals of the shifters if anyone is interested.
I also have plenty of videos, but need to edit them first before posting. I'll try to get them up tonight.
http://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=115
I have pics of the internals of the shifters if anyone is interested.
I also have plenty of videos, but need to edit them first before posting. I'll try to get them up tonight.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG