I really like it, the vid has a lot of good qualities.

Some constructive critisism: The demo (LFS Saiko D demo movie.wmv, which is the only other movie by you I've seen) feels more refined, I'm not talking about the technology but scene selection and editing. On the other hand, in the Dragons movie you have much more speed and drama, some clips are awsome and elegant, but it feels like there are some "filler" clips as well. In the demo on the other hand everything felt spot on.
I would guess you put more hours into the demo though? So perhaps the comparrison isn't entirely fair.

Still, a good one and a keeper

Steve

Quote from i30i3i3y :

... Although, I do support allowing restriction of servers by PB times solely because I've seen it work so well in leagues.

I think that sort of restriction gets rid of some of the wrong people while not keeping the right ones out.

It is entirely possible to be fast, reckless and disrespectful.
It is equally possible to be a responsible, careful driver who do not cause trouble for others but just isn't very fast.

As a matter of fact I would count myself into the latter category.

Quote from Peptis :

Instead of trying to keep the new players off the servers perhaps we could try and help them get better. We'll build a much better community working together than trying to create some sort of tiered elitist structure.

Right on.

Many years ago I flew an online flightsim alot (Aces High). They had a training area where experienced volunteers were appointed as instructors.
The instructors joined the game when they had time/wanted to and found someone to help. As a student you simply joined and waited for an instructor to offer help, then they'd take you for a ride, diagnosed what your problem was and helped you fix it.

Best and most efficient training I ever had in any online game, works for all experience levels. 15 minutes of personal, practical instruction is easily worth 15 hours of training lessons by yourself. Only problem is you have to find enough instructors, but people usually like to teach.

Then again you could argue this is how it works anyway if one joins a club or team. Of course, if the teams stop accepting newbies with restrictive licensing systems, then it doesn't.

Just a thought.

Point taken. You should be playing with a G25 instead
Anyway the difference between virtual and real racing might be shrinking. There are official FIA-associated virtual racing leages now, i.e. "virtual" is now a "real" motorsport. Live simracing on Eurosport soon? Not impossible.

Eh, I blew this thread way off topic, didn't I?

Well, perhaps, the difference being that wildlife and wrestling has nothing to do with each other while racing and racing... well, does

Personally I'd feel pretty stupid calling myself "STCC champion" since it'd be misinterpreted... but on the other hand there is no risk I'll ever have to wrestle with that problem.

Steve

Nice.

Just wondering, when you guys named the racing series, you were aware that there is a real-life FIA racing series called STCC, right?
If you expect the series to really go places, that might be a problem down the line.

Steve

All these arguments about input devices makes me wonder why some people seem to be so interested in what everyone else is doing.

I drive sims because it gives me a kick to drive. To pretend, if you will, to drive fast cars in ways and surroundings I do not get to experience in real life. And obviously MY driving experience is not in any way affected by whatever input device someone else use.

Personally I can't fathom why anyone would WANT to drive a reasonably realistic racing game with anything other than a wheel and pedals, but that's their problem. People can drive by manipulating potentiometers with their teeth for all I care.

As far as unfair advantages goes, well, IF those who complain can beat all other wheel drivers yet get their butts kicked by keyboard drivers, then we can have a talk about fairness. Until then I would recommend everyone to worry more about their own driving experience and less about what other people do.

Quote from anttt69 :

Question:
Momo Racing or DFP?
so which is best ?
i'm confused
I have seen them both for less than 30quid.

It's not that simple. But for starters you may want to scroll back in this very thread. I wrote a rather lenghty post above about the wheels.

Steve

Quote from Bob Smith :

Maybe you could post their location anyone so anyone who also seeks the same information won't feel like an idiot by having to post in this thread.

Excellent point and it is also a comforting thought that I might not be all alone in this

The customizable messages are in Options, under Game, click the tab next to AI Driver names.

/Steve

Crap. Just after posting this I went back into the game and OF COURSE I found it right away. Silly me.

Disregard.

This may be a stupid question but I can't figure it out, it's about these keys:
F1-F8, CTRL-(F1-F8) customizable message shortcuts

Where and how do you customize them?
I've looked at the Wiki manual, messed around in the sim and looked through the config files but I can't find where to change the messages.
Sorry if I missed something obvious. Thanks.

/Steve

Quote from tristancliffe :

Radical SR3 - not historic, but surprisingly good fun to watch, and probably brilliant to drive too

Agreed. Radical would be perfect for LFS.
I'm sure they'd be very popular.

I don't care about real car-brands either, but some real tracks would be very nice (i.e. the Nordschleife)

Quote from anttt69 :

HELP
i have a gameport ffb sidewinder but cannot calibrate the pedals properly!!
there are no drivers, how do i do this?
Ant

There are drivers. You need to get Sidewinder driver version 4.0, not the 3.2.
Unfortunately they are tricky to find. I don't recall exactly, it's a long time since I got rid of my sidewinder FF gameport (like years) but I remember that you need the 4.0 drivers to get the FF to work. I could be wrong but that's how I remember it.

Google a bit.

Quote from lowgoods :

Steve, if you own all those wheels, you can most probably answer this question : Are the pedals of Momo black and DFP plug compatible? The reason I ask is, that I've got ECCI pedals for my Momo and (of course) would like to reuse them for a DFP without buying a separate USB interface then.
Thx, Roland

I had never thought of trying that before . I just did.

Yes, they are compatible.
I plugged the Momo pedals into the DFP and that works fine. I didn't try the other way around but I can't see why that wouldn't work too.

Edit: The Momo Force (red) is not compatible though, different sort of plug.

Last edited by RBSteve, Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:56.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yes thats a good point. But I think you've missed my meaning of elitist.

I think you are right, I must have.
And since I agree with everything else you wrote I can't see a reason to go on arguing with you

/Steve

Quote from tristancliffe :

I wrote I like to think they are like that. Perhaps I should have written I wish, but it means the same thing basically.
<snip>
I think if you look at my posts again you'll see that they are actually very similar. I'm not denying either are elitist. Sims ARE elitist, just like real life is. You don't get grannies in Formula One because they can't drive. So why do we get grannies in LFS so much? They can't drive. They can't get within a second of WR. They can't race without causing an accident. They can't even be lapped without causing an accident. They have no hope of ever getting in the top 3 of any race ever?

I did read back and I admit that I may have read more into your first post than I should've. If so, my bad, sorry.

However, I disagree that both posts are elitist. I don't think there's anything elitist about wanting to race with people who are taking the game seriously, who try to improve their skills and who show respect for others.

I can't really see what possible harm a slow but careful and respectful driver could do on an open server? If "granny" enjoys driving LFS, if "she" is seconds after pace but let faster drivers have their space and if she can control the car well enough not to screw things up for everyone else, I can't see the problem with her driving.
I certainly do not consider "her" to be a bigger problem than a fast driver with a world record hotlap that try to pass me in a f*cking chicane, where not even Michael Schumacher would attempt to get past, rather than waiting 3 seconds, because he can't control his adrenaline-rush.

/Steve

[Edited for clarity]

Last edited by RBSteve, Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:54.

Quote from Billeh :

http://www.logitech.com/lang/images/0/1366.jpg

thats the one i looking to buy at the min not to botherd about the 900 degrees steering thing tbh

That's the Momo Racing.

Since I happen to have all three wheels mentioned (DFP, Momo Racing and Momo Force), I thought I might add a few things.

While the 900 degrees in the DFP is nice and does give an added precision in the control, I can't honestly say that it makes a damn bit of difference on lap times, not for me anyway. It gives me the feeling of better control but I can't see that translate to actual results.

The ergonomics of the DFP is not as good as the Momo Racing. The momo is thicker and fits adult hands better (my hands anyway). Perhaps this is the reason I drive the same times with both wheels, ergonomics versus precision. I don't know.
Also the paddles are actual paddels on the Momo and just oversized buttons on the DFP, which is not as nice IMO. That only matters if you use the paddles for gearshifting. Finally, the PS2-style buttons on the DFP is better than the six simple buttons on the Momo. For example the D-pad is convinient for looking to the sides and so on.

Both these wheels, DFP and Momo Racing, are very good wheels. I do not believe that switching from one to another is going to make any significant difference to the lap-times of anyone. If someone thinks that getting a 900 degree wheel is going to transform their driving and turn them into an instant pro, think again.

I use the Momo Racing on the PC, rather than the DFP simply because it is much more comfortable to hold. That matters to me, especially when driving for a long time.

Finally, the Momo Force (that's the red one, all heavy-duty plastic, metal and leather) is also an excellent wheel. I've had it for years. It is no longer in production.
As far as build quality goes it beats anything out there. From a performance standpoint it is no better (or worse) than the Momo Racing (the black plastic one). Also it lacks the shift stick. Going back to ergonomics, the wheel is thick, leather covered and the metal paddels have a wonderful feeling. The wheel is also a little bigger than the two others (26 cm versus 25 cm). I love this wheel for its outrageous build quality, but it sits on a shelf and I drive the Momo Racing.

My recommendation:

• if at all possible, try out both the Momo and the DFP before a purchase.
  

• if you are buying a new wheel, don't even think about getting a second hand Momo Force. They are overpriced due to the build quality and a new Momo Racing for less money is just as good and has a stick shift.
  

• if you already have a Momo Force, don't get a new one, stick with it, neither the Racing or the DFP is so much better that it warrants a new wheel. Arguably they're not better at all.
  

• if you also own a PS2, get the DFP. It is a PS2 wheel that works on the PC (not the other way around) so you'll get the best wheel available for the PS2 at no extra charge.
  

My 2 cents.

/Steve

Tristan, you wrote:

Quote from tristancliffe :

I like to think that EVERYONE who plays LFS more than 2 to 3 hours a week has the mentality of "I want to be the best racer in every aspect ever".

And a bit later you wrote:

Quote from tristancliffe :

Even the amateur races try to improve themselves. They are serious about their racing (or they wouldn't do it).

Speed has nothing to do with it. You can be a great racer and still be 4 seconds off the pace (you just race greatly with slower people).

What I meant was dedication. That's what we lack.

These two statements seem contradictory to me. The first implies that only super-competitive, type A personalites with the goal to kick everyone elses butt should play LFS and the rest should go do something else.

The second statement I read as you're asking for dedication to improving ones own skill, to attemt to continuously improve ones previous performace. The latter, of course, is possible even for the slowest driver alive.

The first statement is elitist, the second reflects more of a Zen attitude. Dramatically different. Que?

/Steve

It seems to me like there are a couple of different things being discussed at the same time in this thread. Wreckers, i.e. those who intentionally try to mess up other peoples fun, is a separate thing. I've only seen wreckers once in LFS so it's not a big deal to me.

More interesting is the discussion about people who screw up due to inexperience, attitude problems or whatever. This is not something that can be learned by any kind of licensing system, nor is it directly related to driver skill.

I am new to LFS, though I've been driving racing-sims for a long time. That means I am not particularly fast, yet. On the other hand I always try to drive clean. If I find myself in a crowd that is much faster than me, I'll let them by and do my own thing while trying not to screw up their race. I still enjoy driving with others, even if I can't beat them. If I didn't I'd be offline driving GTR. When I do find myself in a crowd that is at about my level, I race competitively. Of course I still screw up sometimes, when I do I apologize.

My point is that how quick you are around the track does not really have much to do with your respect for others, or lack thereof. That is an attitude and maturity issue. I often see fast drivers, much faster than me, who try to overtake in places where it is impossible to overtake for example. You don't see Schumie or Kimi do that in real life (but you do see Sato doing it).

Anyway, racing on open servers inevitably means that drivers with different skill level, of different levels of maturity and with different attitudes will be on the same track. Anyone who want super-clean racing where all the drivers are at the same skill level have to race on closed servers, there's just no way to enforce that on an open server.

Obviously the same thing applies to servers that allows any type of car. One does not have to be a genius to realize that a UF1 is going to appear almost stationary to someone driving a FO8. I guess servers that allow all cars have more in common with a real-life "track-day" where anyone can come and race their car, than with an organized competition. Track-day events require the drivers to prioritize everyones enjoyment over their own lap-times, yet some won't do that.

Sorry if I got sidetracked. But from what I've seen most people behave quite well in LFS. I've never got really pissed off at anyone and when people do annoy me I just pick a different server. I never got myself kicked or banned either. I 'm having fun and I do not think it is possible to regulate out all bad or stupid behaviour by any kind of automated rating system or by voting.

/Steve

Ok, thank you kindly.
I got the DDS plugin and I can open the files.

It seems to work just adding them as I would a normal map.
Is that the right way to do it or am I supposed to do something magical with the DX shader Lightmap panel?

/Steve

I ran into a problem while trying to render a skin in 3dsmax.

I have no probs with the whole process, I'm familiar with 3dsmax and I've loaded a car model and so on. However, when correcting the material I can't find the image maps.

According to the LFS-3DSMax_UK.pdf tutorial there's supposed to be a /tga folder under /data/pic in the LFS install. But I don't have any /tga folder in /pic and therefore no image-maps (for example XF_Interior1.tga).
There's not a single targa-file in all of /data for that matter.

What am I missing?

Thanks!

/Steve

Last edited by RBSteve, Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:04.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Even more sadly, it's called the Nürburgring

Actually, one can score extra points by just refering to it as the Nordschleife. Most ring-heads do, in order to avoid confusing it with the modern Nürburgring F1-track.

Seriously, it would be great with a pseudo-nordschleife track. But I don't think it can be done by just adding together racetracks. It's not just about the distance, I believe the surrounding terrain is part of the magic as well. But I've never driven on in in real life so I'm just guessing.

Quote from L(Oo)ney :

<...>
And people should play the game with whatever they can afford/feel most comftable with, if thats a kb and mouse, then fine.
<...>

I dont really care about this issue, but the "can afford" argument is kind of weak. Someone playing LFS obviously have a computer setup that cost them at least 400 euro (and probably more than 1000 euro). Add to that the 24 euro for the game and the cost for a broadband internet connection. If your economy allows for this, in order to play a game, then you can damn sure save up to 150 euro for a decent wheel in a rather short time.
So those driving with the keyboard do so out of choice not necessity.

And regarding the arguments against driving-aids with the keyboard... I am sure that those who get good laptimes are good at LFS whatever they use. But players are competing online against each other and as long as there are "different rules for different people" there will be lots of arguing about it. For that reason alone it would make sense to either a) have no driving aids for anything or b) restricting races to either or both controller types.

Steve