I don't think we can say "Button coped much better thanks to his style" so easily...
We could argue that :
1) Button was going a little bit slower and relaxed compared to Vettel as he was doing more or less the same times but Brawn could probably go few tenths faster
2) Button changed tyres two laps later than Vettel. If we consider Vettel's 52th laptime of 1:30.154 as inconsistancy/mistake (as the next lap he was doing again 1:29.721), then Vettel's tires troubles began only on lap 54 (1:30.237)
When Button reached lap 56 (54+2), he encountered Safety car (1:37.817) so we have no way to say if Button style had preserved tires longer than Vettel or if he was going to lose 1 or more seconds in the following laps.
On top of that, different cars have different tire usage... so to see Button's style effects we should probably compare him to Barrichello (unless Barrichello is smooth too..). Unfortunately, Barrichello soft stint was even shorter so we haven't got data on it.
Having said that, I'm not a real racing driver nor an expert, so if you say that Button is smooth and so he would preserve his tires more than Vettel... I'm going to believe you
Just wanted to point out that in this race, laptimes wouldn't prove a massive difference between Button and Vettel.. (maybe there was some better evidence looking at some videos?)
Edit:
Agreed
Although, in Rosberg's case he did have problems somewhat sooner (6th or 7th lap) but he was also the one pushing most: 1:27:706, fastest lap of the race, compared to Button and Vettel who stayed above 1:29 on softs.
I think someone said he was asked by the team to push to get Barrichello (can anyone confirm this?).
Last edited by Starblue, .
It's Kajanima's teammate
Melbourne fastest laps:
http://www.fia.com/public/f1_media/aus09_race_laps.pdf
And a link to view all laptimes:
http://channelf1.net/timing.php
Using those laptimes, I tried to get a rough estimate of "race pace"... so I calculated the average of each driver's top 20 laps.
Best Top 20 Laps Average of each team:
Button 1:28,375
Vettel 1:28,486
Kubica 1:28,867
Robserg 1:29,105
Raikkonen 1:29,265
Trulli 1:29,571
Hamilton 1:29,668
Sutil 1:29,673
Alonso 1:29,704
Buemi 1:29,934
It looks like only RBR was really on BGP pace, and BGP didn't push on softs during the last stint.
Obviously a simple average like this cannot tell exactly team strenghts, but I think it gives an interesting overview of how teams performed on Melbourne.
http://www.fia.com/public/f1_media/aus09_race_laps.pdf
And a link to view all laptimes:
http://channelf1.net/timing.php
Using those laptimes, I tried to get a rough estimate of "race pace"... so I calculated the average of each driver's top 20 laps.
Best Top 20 Laps Average of each team:
Button 1:28,375
Vettel 1:28,486
Kubica 1:28,867
Robserg 1:29,105
Raikkonen 1:29,265
Trulli 1:29,571
Hamilton 1:29,668
Sutil 1:29,673
Alonso 1:29,704
Buemi 1:29,934
It looks like only RBR was really on BGP pace, and BGP didn't push on softs during the last stint.
Obviously a simple average like this cannot tell exactly team strenghts, but I think it gives an interesting overview of how teams performed on Melbourne.
I agree. Other drivers probably drove better, but the one who impressed me most was Buemi: I didn't know anything about him and I expected a poor rookie performance with his Toro Rosso, instead he got a good result and I also saw him fight for some positions.
+1 for Buemi
Notice: the Tracker suffered a disconnection so it's not showing the correct standings anymore.
Yes, I think it's still active...no changes where needed for patch Z.
As for wheel temperatures, Insim&Outsim don't give this info.
I suppose the host sends data to the client as fast he can...so if you flood the host, the host will flood the client. If you wait 1 ms, you don't flood the host and the host doesn't flood the client
That's the control you have on the "host to client flood"
Starblue
I encountered this problem with one my apps: "NextRace".
NextRace can display almost 200 buttons at once like this: http://img88.imageshack.us/my. ... racker310120081806ta5.jpg
However, I experienced the problem myself only once...and only a few users said they had trouble using it....most people could see it just fine.
NextRace was always running on a Windows machine.
I've tried to make a test a few min ago: I've modified one my apps so that it sends thousands of Insim buttons. Using it on "single player", it causes no problem. However, if I start a dedi in local and connect to it, my LFS gets disconnected after the flood of insim buttons.
My LFS just says "Lost connection to host", however, my app registered this message too:
21:59:43,125 [127.0.0.1:17464] received this msg (TCP ERROR : WOULDBLOCK) by ConnId: 0
Looking up in the forum, I found this post:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showth ... ght=WOULDBLOCK#post813975
I think Victor's answer solves the mistery: sending too many buttons at once can saturate the network buffer, thus when the LFS host tries to send some more information it fails to do so and declares the connection dead.
I suppose the network buffer size depends on the machine config, so that would explain why your Linux machine has no problem, while your windows server fails.
Victor also provides the solution:
I've tried to put a simple pause of 1 millisecond between one button and another and it's working: my LFS has been receiving thousands of buttons in the last 3 minutes and it's currently still connected and receiving more buttons...
Starblue
NextRace can display almost 200 buttons at once like this: http://img88.imageshack.us/my. ... racker310120081806ta5.jpg
However, I experienced the problem myself only once...and only a few users said they had trouble using it....most people could see it just fine.
NextRace was always running on a Windows machine.
I've tried to make a test a few min ago: I've modified one my apps so that it sends thousands of Insim buttons. Using it on "single player", it causes no problem. However, if I start a dedi in local and connect to it, my LFS gets disconnected after the flood of insim buttons.
My LFS just says "Lost connection to host", however, my app registered this message too:
21:59:43,125 [127.0.0.1:17464] received this msg (TCP ERROR : WOULDBLOCK) by ConnId: 0
Looking up in the forum, I found this post:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showth ... ght=WOULDBLOCK#post813975
I think Victor's answer solves the mistery: sending too many buttons at once can saturate the network buffer, thus when the LFS host tries to send some more information it fails to do so and declares the connection dead.
I suppose the network buffer size depends on the machine config, so that would explain why your Linux machine has no problem, while your windows server fails.
Victor also provides the solution:
I've tried to put a simple pause of 1 millisecond between one button and another and it's working: my LFS has been receiving thousands of buttons in the last 3 minutes and it's currently still connected and receiving more buttons...
Starblue
Nice video!
The subtitles were a bit too quick for me though, I had to stop the video to read them all
I look forward to the second part
Starblue
I think it's the Lapper that clears the button...I tried to log the insim communication and it seems that Lapper sends a 42 - ISP_BFN packet right after LFS has sent a 23 - ISP_PLL (Player Leave) packet.
Infact, trying with another app (LFSAdminRights), I do not lose buttons on screen when going from race to spectator.
Btw, congrats for all your work on LFSLapper, I haven't used it much (yet) but it looks amazing
The possibility of using user-defined scripts is absolutely brilliant
Starblue
Weird
Can you send me your config files? config.ini , drivers.txt , events.txt, calendars.txt.Do you get this error *all the time* or does it manage to download some PB or Hotlap between one error and the other? Is your LFSWorld idkey being used for something else?
About further development: I will do it if there is enough interest from the community
I'm thinking about developing Andy King request (automatic start of Qualy & Race of events in the calendar)...although I think there is already LFSLapper to start races at fixed times, it wouldn't check if people in the race are registered for the event or not...so maybe I should add this to NextRace
Starblue
New version published in the opening post
Starblue
I'm glad you like it!
My fault, I should have written something on how to use the program.
I'll try post a little tutorial later, so that other people won't have to figure out by trial and error
Good point. I'll make soon a new version where 1) every use of commands is logged to the log file 2) 100 Last executed commands can be seen from the adminGUI panel.
Starblue
Good idea! I love Eclipse but I remember it was quite a pain the first time I used it...trying to understand its many perspective windows and how to import an existing project, libraries and such
I'll try to make the tutorial you suggested.
I'm glad you solved it and.... welcome to Jinsim!!
Starblue
When you create a new "admin", he starts with no rights to use any command: you must click on the command buttons next to his name to give him rights to use them
Yes, 10 laps worth. I forgot to write it, thanks
Patch Z Balance: Tests needed
Hello everyone,
as you may know from the other thread, I'm collecting data from AIs to see the effects of adding mass to balance cars.
To make sure that data provided from the AI is reliable, I need some real drivers to make some tests.
So I ask all the drivers who want to contribute to Patch Z Balance, to do the following test:
Car: Your team car, be it FZR, XRR or FXR.
Track: choose one of the tracks of the season: Blackwood GP, Kyoto National, Fern Bay Gold, Aston Historic, Westhill International, Kyoto GP Long Rev, South City Long, Aston North.
If possible, use the one you're most familiar with.
Fuel: enough for 10 laps.
Ballast position:
41% front for FZR
50% front for XRR
53% front for FXR
Test procedure:
Do a race (alone) of 10 laps without ballast.
Do a race (alone) of 10 laps with 95 KG ballast.
Try to be as consistent as possible, use the same setup for both races.
Save the replay and send it to me (you can attach it here in a post)
You can even do a combo already tested by other drivers, but maybe it's better if I get data from different combos first.
Tests done:
FXR on SO4 by R.Kolz (TDRT)
Thnx everyone for your help
Starblue
as you may know from the other thread, I'm collecting data from AIs to see the effects of adding mass to balance cars.
To make sure that data provided from the AI is reliable, I need some real drivers to make some tests.
So I ask all the drivers who want to contribute to Patch Z Balance, to do the following test:
Car: Your team car, be it FZR, XRR or FXR.
Track: choose one of the tracks of the season: Blackwood GP, Kyoto National, Fern Bay Gold, Aston Historic, Westhill International, Kyoto GP Long Rev, South City Long, Aston North.
If possible, use the one you're most familiar with.
Fuel: enough for 10 laps.
Ballast position:
41% front for FZR
50% front for XRR
53% front for FXR
Test procedure:
Do a race (alone) of 10 laps without ballast.
Do a race (alone) of 10 laps with 95 KG ballast.
Try to be as consistent as possible, use the same setup for both races.
Save the replay and send it to me (you can attach it here in a post)
You can even do a combo already tested by other drivers, but maybe it's better if I get data from different combos first.
Tests done:
FXR on SO4 by R.Kolz (TDRT)
Thnx everyone for your help
Starblue
Last edited by Starblue, .
Notice: I have been told that people do not like Intake Restrictions...so I'm now testing Mass ballast effect. As for the position of mass ballast, I've assumed:
41% front for FZR
50% front for XRR
53% front for FXR
Adding ballast on these positions doesn't alter car weight distribution with 100% fuel and driver on (maybe it would have been better to check on 50% fuel actually).
Starblue
Ok, follow these steps:
1) Check that your setup.cfg of DEDI server has an Insim line like this:
// optional: InSim port
/insim=17464Is there such a line?
2) Start DEDI server
3) Start AdminRights
4) Check DEDI server window, you should see a message telling that AdminRights has connected through Insim: "Insim - TCP : AdmRts".Can you see it?
5) Start LFS
6) Go to Multiplayer, Join Specific Host and join your local DEDI Server on 127.0.0.1
7) Type the message !adminGUI
8) Can you see the message !adminGUI after you send it?
Starblue
AIs have already done more than 7000 laps on my PC....they've been driving all night long
This is my current plan, feel free to make suggestions:
0) I'm testing Intake Restrictions. Why? Because it's only 1 variable instead of 2, i.e. mass restriction have both kilograms and position to adjust and test.
1) First of all, I run a series of tests to see Intake effects. That is, how performance degrades with various levels of intake restriction.
For every car (FXR, XRR, FZR) and every restriction (from 0 to 19%) I'll run multiple races on a few tracks (KY3R, WE1 and maybe SO4 and AS7).
I've already run 12 races, 10 laps long, for every car, on KY3R with 20 drivers (0-19% intake). The best times graph gives a nice overview of how intake restrictions affect each car's performance. As expected FZR is more affected by restriction than the other cars (e.g. using 19% intake makes FZR about 5% slower, while XRR/FXR are only about 3.5% slower).
I'm now running WE1 to see if changing track affects these values
2) However, IGTC races are not 10 laps long and they are not about "fastest laps": cars who use less fuel have better average times and so they have an advantage on long races. For this, I'll check the "Stint effects", how carrying fuel for one stint affects car performance (avg time vs best times).
For every car, I'll run a few 1 hour long races (stint length) on various tracks. During each race, some cars will bring intake restrictions to see if intakes alter the stint effect.
3) It is usually not possible to balance cars so that they are equal on every track ("Track Effect") so I'll do some maths to check the "Season effect" (i.e. track effect over remaining races). That is, summing up Stint effects + Intake effects + Track Effect what would be the restrictions to apply to each car so that all 3 cars have the same chances to grab points in the remaining races?
Obviously all these tests are good for AIs, but they must be checked with some "Human" tests to see which values can be used and which ones can't be applied. For example, Intake effect results might be ok for humans too (e.g. a FZR with 19% intake might run about 5% slower on KY3R, no matter if AI or human driven) while Track Effect might change (e.g. XRR is 3,5% slower than FZR on KY3R if used by AI, but it might be only 1% slower if driven by a human...because AI maybe don't know how to handle XRRs..).
Also, variables related to setups aren't tested...all AI are just driving with a basic restricted setup for now. It would be probably best if we had real race setups, especially for the Stint effect test. If some teams could provide some setups for that, it would be a lot better
So, at the end of all the tests, we will not be able to just "blindly" use these values, but still I hope that by doing a proper organized testing we might get a better overall picture of how the variables interact and gain insight on how we could balance them.
Starblue
Is this the only line in the log? It looks ok.
I see the IP address is local (127.0.0.1): are you using a DEDI or your LFS with Start New Host?
Starblue
Please check the AdminRights.log file and let me know if there's an error reported there
Starblue
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