The online racing simulator
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Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from thisnameistaken :Assuming it is the absolute highest quality of simulation and that they didn't crap 18 million down the bog. You seem pretty convinced it's the former - what are you basing that on?
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Based on the designer being a genius and producing the absolute cutting edge simulations for the last 20 years. He has never failed to raise the bar with every release so his track record is proven. Hes the only guy I would have trusted to live up to this hype and from what i hear, he has. I havent heard a single person bashing the driving experience. Some dont like the cost or restrictive system and ratings ect but nothing negative about the driving, which must mean its amazing.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from Boris Lozac :But nothing curently suggests that it's teh next-gen of sim racing. Sounds, while sounding great, are just samples, which no matter how good they sound won't give the same feeling as simulated sounds, there's nothing better than the sound of a car strugling on an uphill, while the sample would sound the same on the uphill and on the flat surface... so, nothing next-gen about the sounds...
Graphics are good, while i can't judge the physics by the videos, Legends on the oval looked pretty realistic, while Radical looked too rFactorish to me... I'll check them out for myself though, at the friends house... since there's no demo (great way to atract customers and pay back 18 mil )

Pretty much all the beta tester comments ive seen say it is a next generation driving experience. I think simulated sounds are the biggest waste of time in simulation history. Who the hell would really notice the difference between samples, and the change in tone up a hill, seriously? How many years has it been and LFS sounds still sound embaressing and like C64?
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from thisnameistaken :But is it good value? It's a valid question. Anyone can spend 18 million - give me 18 million and be amazed at how effortlessly I waste most of it - it would be an absolute doddle.

Like I said already I'm going to try it, because I'm curious, but I won't subscribe for a year unless it really is a revolutionary sim. It is expensive.

It depends on what your looking for. If you dont desire the absolute highest quality of simulation, then its a waste of money. If you do then its dirt cheap imo.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from thisnameistaken :Pfft! The trees aren't even the same.

The first one is. The rest of them probably changed since the scan was done.

To those crying about the pricing, Iracing have so far invested 18 million into the product so the pricing is very neccessary and would be impossible to regain without consistent flow of revenue. Thats the price we have to pay for the next level of simulation. If you dont like it , stick to driving the same old crap forever.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from Intrepid :This track thing to me is a red herring. The real tracks exist in reality. If accuracy is SO important save up and go race on them for real instead of some cheap substitute on your PC

So I guess physics accuracy is a red herring also. Lets all race need for speed and if physics accuracy is SO important save up and go and buy a real race car.

Quote from Intrepid :
Due to the G forces NOT acting upon your body, and inaccurate phsyics (which they will be) finding a good set up with a sim is totally pointless as you won't drive the same leaving the data invalid.

It's merely a vanity thing to have BANG on tracks. Yes it's nice to drive a 'real' track in a game, but it's nothing more than icing. If you paying this fee to pay for laser scanned tracks thats pointless. IMO I would rather not. In fact I find it VASTLY more interesting, and challenging driving newly designed tracks from scratch than apparently 'expensive' laser ones. SIm racing gives you the oppurtunity to challenge yourself in new ways, rather than driving tracks that ALREADY exist.

The real meat and two veg is the driving model, and online racing. iRacing does deliver on merit I am in no doubt (from what I have heard), but so what? NetKar, when working, is supreme, and LFS is just as good.


You dont seem to understand the concept of 'simulation'. The point is to simulate reality as closely as possible which is why accurate tracks create a better simulation experience than fantasy tracks.

Quote :
If people are happy to invest in iRacing so be it, but if your prepared to invest THAT MUCH on sims then surely why not just go the whole hog and do it for real?

Since when is $13 a year considered THAT MUCH? I bet you spend more on lunch every day. Its peanuts and not comparing to thousands and thousands for real racing.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from Shotglass :im serious... the only possible selling point for iracing would be interesting tracks and cars... and i dont give flying -insert favourite swear word- if its real content or not
but what youre getting is a solstice and tracks that are even more unimaginative and boring to drive than the ones in lfs
id wish that it would impress me and revigorate my interest in sim racing... but it doesnt even begin to achieve that

You really are a retard. Road American is rated as one of the best tracks on the planet. Fast, challenging sweeping, everything. Your just so desperate to bash iracing its pathetic. Stick to your fern bay's.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from Hyperactive :www.iracing.com, intro and new site
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The imaginery bit doesn't concern me the slightest. Heh, true about the solstices

Looks very slick and professional. Awesome.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from ajp71 :It is about 12 times the price (assuming you race a good sim for 3 years) to race with one car and four tracks (assuming you don't like turning left) compared with LFS which gives 18 cars, 7 tracks and freedom to race with who you want to when you want to in whatever kind of racing you want.

It can have 100 cars and tracks but it wont change the fact the graphics are 5 years old, sounds are crap and it doesnt have real content. I guess someone people like Mcdonalds and others like restaurants. Depends on what standard your after.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from Mille Sabords :While LFS appeals to a wide range of sim racers (dedicated league racers, casual pickup racers, drifters, cruisers, wreckers ) iRental seems to be going for high income, highly dedicated or advertisement sensitive "latest gimmick addict" racers.

I can see Irental taking a part of the higly dedicated racers from LFS but the rest of the public will likely be unaffected. This sounds bad for LFS leagues, the impact on pick up races should however be minor.

Where I see a big difference is that standard competitors in sim racing world still "allow" a racer to use different sims, while with iRental the investment and continuous fees are so high that it will force more commitment - good for them, bad for other sims, very bad for your wallet.

I can not (and do not want to) give more time / dedication to sim racing and LFS suits me for its excellent ROI and instant pickup races, so I will not suscribe to iRental in the near future, however I would love to try it

Iracing is definately going for serious sim racers but not high income. $156 US a year is peanuts for starters, many people would spend close to that just on a night out on the town. And after the basic suscription, for the price of a G25 you can buy all the content you will ever need for years. Just because the sim isnt dirt cheap like LFS or RF doesnt mean its expensive overall like your making out.

If we dont put something into sim racing we wont get much back as evidenced by the last 3 years of no progress. How many years will it take for LFS to get an updated graphic engine to DX9, a bunch of new cars and tracks ect ect? Years if ever, and thats simply because they dont have the resources. Look at the development and quality of WOW and its no coincidence that the devs are swimming in money.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from Shotglass :
with that kind of money you could buy an s2 licence a nkp license rfactor rbr and just about everything simbin and blimey ever did... and all that without somebody telling you when and how to enjoy your purchase

Yeh you could buy them all and what would the end result be? An inferior product, and being stuck in the dark ages of sim racing. Maybe you would prefer tha, over spending the equivalent to your daily lunch money, a month of a new sim but I dont.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from Shotglass :can you establish a community on a system that makes it near impossible to race with friends?

You even have a friends list in iracing which allocates all friends together in races when possible according to their iracing of course, although I think higher irating drivers can race in lower fields anyway.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from bbman :You'll find I'm all but insecure, bashing out in that direction won't get me to cave in... TV I have to pay for because it's mandatory, not because I choose to... And my mobile phone I OWN, I can sell it if I don't like it... Which brings me to the point where your cunning little analogy fails: I can use my TV and my phone in any way I like, I'm not restricted to watch just one show or phone one number a whole week... And be honest: at the end of the day, nothing in a simulated environment has any value, even though you want it so much...

We have enough bureaucracy in our work life, do we really need to have our free time and hobby dictated by it?

Give me control, and I'm sold... Treat me like a baby and I as a consumer will slam the door into your face...

Paying for TV isnt mandatory, you can watch free to air but you dont because you want higher viewing quality and pleasure. And you are restricted by when your specific movie or show starts.

As for Iracing 'restrictions', well your not restricted anymore than 20 formula one drivers yesterday who were all forced to drive at Canada. boo hoo and in two weeks time they are will be forced to race at magney cours. If you dont want to race on specific track then just test alone on your choice.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from bbman :Exactly, SOME... If it means I'm restricted in every possible way imaginable by it, then it becomes bad... Which is the case with iRacing... As sinbad said, you get the distinct impression that you're degraded to a willingness cash-cow, ready to be milked...

Why do I have to prove I'm worth driving a specific car? Maybe I don't need to be nursed to the high powered cars... And even if I would, a few tests offline would certainly bring much more insight than driving a boring slow standard road car for months... It's not like there is any danger of property to be damaged or destroyed after all...

If they absolutely have to insist on their server farms and matchmaking, why not introduce a RTS-like lobby where you specify a combo, the master server creates a host for you or joins you to the appropriate server, and when enough people are in, off you go?

Oh god stop being so INSECURE and crying about some professional structure. You have it in real life motorsport so it should be in a simulation. It makes everything you do in the game have value and importance as you get better and progess. Instead of being insecure you should enjoy it. Are you worried about being a 'cash cow' when you pay money for other products and services in your every day life? Like your pay tv or mobile phone?

The reason they have the matching making system is to ensure there are always servers with high number of cars and balanced skill, otherwise you have random rubbish pick up racing as you do now in LFS and RF, where its hard to find filled servers and high quality racing. Everytime I check out lfs servers I see most of them empty or filled with idiots. The iracing system will help fix this.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from The Moose :Between LFS (i don't care about the graphics in the slightest. They are pretty neutral and functional, more tracks would be nice..I'm sure they will come.) in which i get my fill of top quality pickup racing on CTRA, and nKPro which is far from half a game and rough as hell (it's a high quality sim that's a bit rough around the edges) in which, for two years, i've had a league racing experience that not even iRacing can currently provide, all my current sim racing needs are met. (both have great physics and quality racing, that's enough for me thanks)

I'm not having a go at iRacing or anyone that want's to enjoy the great stuff it offers.(have to keep emphasising this as some people cant read or understand) I just don't need to pay $13 (min) a month for it's services yet, as it doesn't provide what I'm looking for from sim racing.

For me it costs to much for what it currently offers. How hard is that to understand?

I love sim racing. I love a hardcore approach to sim racing (my love affair with nKPro is well known) If i was a multi-millionaire i wouldn't subscribe to iRacing yet.

I'm amazed that some people are so blind that they can't see why not every sim racer on the planet wishes to buy into iRacing as it stands.

I'm also disappointed at some of the ridiculous snobbery and elitism of some of the iRacing community at RSC who seem to have decided that they are the only real simracers in the universe.

It's also no good having a well funded cutting edge simulation if it doesn't yet offer things that a lot of sim racers want.
I applaud those who are buying into it's undoubted potential and are happy with what it currently provides.

Ok thats your opinion so fair enough. Ill give you mine.

Im also a hard core simmer and I think the community has grown very stale and im sick of it. The scene has been stagnet and tired lately and Im desperate for something fresh.

Ive played RF to death for 3 years and its been great but its stale now. Pickup racing is a waste of time because with al the mods its hard to find servers with enough drivers for a good race and the skill levels are a joke and its full of wreckers. Most mods have good graphics but physics are very hit and miss. League racing is good and offers great racing but I want a better leve of simulation. Its 2008 afterall. I want to move forward.

Ive toyed with LFS since the demo days but its never grabbed me. There was always something 'lightweight' about it. Fantasy cars and fantasy tracks dont grab you like real ones, and they have barely changed in years. Graphics are very dated and for me its quite an important issue because its part of realism and simulation, and I want to utilize my new graphics cars. Sounds are still crap also and development rate is very slow. Community is great but it cant make up for the short comings of the game. Im sure its a great game for fun, but for serious sim fans its not good enough.

Nkpro has some good aspects like physics and FFB but its miles from being professional and to me its a waste of time because it has no future. Online code is crap, and is limited to 15 or so drivers, tracks are limited, interface is ugly and none of this will get fixed anytime soon if ever so to me its a dead end. The community is also dead which is a big big area of importance to me.

Iracing basically fixes all the short comings of all these simulations and is a package of all the best bits we have scattered in the other sims so its what Ive been waiting for and Im sure as hell not going to miss it for the sake of $13 a month, the amount of money most people spend at Mcdonalds or a cafe in a single sitting. Hell a pizza costs more than that. Ive just happy I have the OPPORTUNITY to pay someone for such a quality of service and product, and dont intend of waiting another 5 years playing the same dated games just so I can save a few bucks.

Another big issue with sim racing is that the community is scattered through many different games and mods. For sim racing to reach the highest level and become a 'sport' the community needs to be centralized, and I see Iracing as that hub to turn this hobby into something more serious and fun. Thats why I hope its supported.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from sinbad :It really is a "lure you in and hold on tight" pricing system. I may be a cynic, but realistically the basic content is not enough to make the subscription worth paying, and then once you've forked out for the content, which you need, you're compelled to keep up the subscription to get value from your content purchase.

So you need more content to make the subscription worth paying, and then you need to keep paying the subscription to make the content worth buying. I can't imagine many people will subscribe for 1 or 3 months to "try it" buy a load of content and then happily just let the subscription lapse and lose the money they bought content with. I think I would come down with a chronic case of "Buyer's remorse" at some point. But then I've tested it, and this is just my opinion based on those few weeks.

Thats just the usual suscription model, just like my pay tv for example. You have pay tv dont you? They obviously want to make money and I hope they make a lot because it will mean a better and faster developing simulation, something that we have been missing in the community.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from The Moose :That's tricky.
It's the way you have to drive iRacing that bugs me.
It's really frustrating, as if it wasn't for the way your forced to take part in racing the way they want you to, i feel it would easily become the most popular sim on the market.

You mean you dont like the concept of 'organisation'? You prefer just random unorganised pick up races with half filled servers and un even skill levels? That sucks and is why pick up racing is so crap these days. Nothing wrong with some organisation and structure.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from The Moose :
...and no, i don't mean it's expensive as in breaking the bank, but in relative terms, and for what it offers at the moment, it costs too much.

Whats on offer at the moment then?

Rfactor with ancient converted tracks that are not accurate, physics that are hit and miss and developed in notepad?

Or live for speed with 5 year old dated graphics, and same old fantasy tracks that we have been driving on for years, not to mention utter crap sounds?

Nkpro which is just half a game and rough as hell?

Seems like there isnt much on offer these days certainly nothing new and there wont be unless there is a change in business model for simulations and suscription is finally the chance for sim racers to have a funded cutting edge simulation. We shouldnt let it go to waste because we might never have the opportunity again.
Monty
S2 licensed
Quote from The Moose :I'd happily pay $100+ for it if i actually got to own a bit of software. Something i could use offline, and use online how i wanted too, not having every aspect of my sim racing fun controlled by the developers.

Whats the difference between offline and online? Your gaming PC is constantly connected to the internet isnt it? Seems like your making a big deal out of nothing.
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