Quote from rageshgr :

Dude, check out our replies to your previous threads, don't give up now, you are missing some great fun, Come to ![amg] gti motorsport today. Tell me when you are coming, I will be there, and make sure you are well treated

Fewer ass hats on this track, but that is where I met my last straw. AA demo is even worse.

I'm surprised at the number of ppl who responded here. Shocked, actually. Typical response to noob hat throwing a hissy is "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out the door."

Childish, yes. Warranted, absolutely. I took the time to prepare. And got screwed anyway.

You want new blood in this game? Police your fellow veterans. There is a split crowd here. There are the very cool vets like mcs mad max who use their brake pedals and say encouraging things. (And ... this is important... manage to get past me without tossing me off the track. Imagine that) Then there are the "others" who go out of their way to haze new drivers. Maybe that's the culture. Maybe that's the initiation process that works. But it is 180 out from the spirit of this forum and the documents describing how you expect this community to behave.

Yes, their are ass hats in every online gaming community. But with racing, it's far more damaging. A good race requires a very high degree of cooperation and it only takes one or two to ruin it for everyone. One could argue that a beginner like me is one of those who ruin it for others, but there is a difference between trying to get with the program and deliberately punishing those with less skill. Trying real hard to improve? Screw you, I'm going to run you off the track until you're as fast as me.

Some argue that new drivers should practice off line until they get their lap time up to a certain level. The problem there is lap speed is only about 40% of the equation. Racing with the pack is a whole different skill set, far more important and only obtainable by driving on line. The unavoidable truth is new drivers are going to have a learning curve and the only way to get through it is to get on the track with others. This is why we have clean driving rules - so people don't run slower drivers off the track.

Some could also argue that "pros" who don't know how - or don't have the discipline - to control their speed and line to compensate for slower drivers aren't as good as they think they are. I've found that taking my foot off the gas and even using the brake pedal on a straight to stay behind a slower driver works great. Sooner or later, you will catch them in a position where you can pass safely. Patience is a skill, too.

What we really need is a graduated track system. There is that first round of skill improvement where you go from spending most of your time in the dirt to a good lap with a clean line and a time of about 1.45 or more. Then there's 1.40 and then the elusive 1.30. Tracks set up for three or four well-known milestone lap times with qualifying and accumulated driving time requirements would help new drivers work their way up without getting in the way of the pros.

Hell with it. Too many ass hats in this game. Cya.

Quote from Skagen :

Go to a decent server, and the tossing should stop.

Point me to a "decent" server.

Quote from DrBen :

Faster drivers - if they are experienced at all - will wait for a chance that does not include sending you into the ditch on purpose.

Simple rule to think about: overtaking is best done on straightways NOT when entering a corner.

That rule stays true even in multi-class racing - even if some blockheads seem not to remember sometimes(...)

As I learnt before: decide which line you want to take through a turn before you get to the final turn-in - and then stick to that line.

That means: If you're entering a corner with noone else in sight: feel free to use all the track (fastest line). If you are under pressure from behind: consider the possibility of entering the corner side-by-side with your opponent. Then you both will need a somewhat slower speed through the turn in order to avoid hazardous contact and to hold your own line throughout the corner. Biggest responsibiltiy: chose either the outside or the inside throughout the whole corner (or left/right throughout a combination of consecutive corners) and do not deviate from your chosen side of the track.
Simple rule of thumb: If you are already at the inside: stay inside
If you are a little too late on your brakes and your (faster) opponent from behind aims for the inside : outside line is your only option.

Really: blocking your opponents by wildly switching lines back and forth while cornering is generelly considered bad sportsmanship.

Whatever you do, please keep an eye on the mirrors and monitor your own distance to other cars constantly throughout the race.

Always give your opponent enough room to "survive" a given corner while staying on the track. It is perfectly O.K. to make room sparse for your opponents but never take away another's room as much as to throw them off-track. Always leave enough space for others to survive.

Good racers can vary their racing line as to force their opponents onto a slower line without the need to <<kill>> them.

Big hint: don't join an ongoing race mid-way if you can help it. Especially on a short and tight track this can be very troublesome. If you absolutely have to get started, wait for the main field to pass the pits and go out afterwards to avoid any immediate conflict.

If you see yourself in the situation of a total stand-still, posing a potential danger to the rest of the race: remember the magic [shift]-[s] command.


However: especially in multi-class races -- consider your own vehicles's limits
- what tires are you running on? Street/offroad/slicks ?
- what tires is your opponent running on? If it is a gt-class racer that usually means some variant of slicks = more lateral road-holding capability.
- downforce-enhancements on your car or the opponents' vehicles?


The first rule when you are faced with an opponent slower than yourself, coming in sight in front of you is very simple, as well:
YOU are responsible not to interfere with the line of the racer you wish to overtake. Prepare to avoid physical contact as much as possible.

Sure enough there are a great number of racers out there that did not yet take to heart the most basic principles of the racing code. Do not let them discourage yourself from aspiring a a clean and competitive racing style.

Wow, what a lot of stuff. Here's the deal. I can hold a decent line and avoid hitting cars in front of me. Holding a line and paying attention to the guys in my mirrors at the same time is beyond me at the moment. Side by side isn't too much of a problem, I just move over as best I can, although I still get sideswiped sometimes. I don't know if that's me or them.

My biggest problem is getting hit from *behind*. Perfect example is last night, going into the first turn. I'm in pole position and dash for the turn as best I can, knowing that half the field is going to try to jockey for position in the first turn. (It has been my observation that most racers, especially the more experienced ones, compete for position in the first turn rather than keep position so everyone survives.) Anyway, I do my very best to brake as late as possible and *still* get tossed from behind. Then told I'm stupid for braking before the 50 sign. Well, you know, I started braking at the 100 sign, which is really good for me. I downshift smoothly and brake early. And invariably get hit from behind. There is always one asshat who hasn't read the "brake early" document regarding the first turn.

Bottom line is that the more experienced players don't seem to have a lot of patience for noobs. I'm averaging just under 33 for splits and my best lap so far is 1.41. I'm slower, but not entirely incompetent here. I don't block and, when able, I move over and slow down to let folks pass.

Still, I get hit from behind in a lot of races. Hold my line, move it in, move it out, slow down, don't slow down. Doesn't matter. If they're faster, they hit me.

This isn't everyone of course, but it happens so often that I've given up racing in the pack. I do a false start and come in from the pits and try to catch up.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

To let people by go to the outside instead of the inside, as the inside is normally the fastest way around the track.

That kind of makes sense. I brake earlier than most because I'm still learning, but if I keep the line, that gives Andretti dude behind me a sensible choice: slow the hell down or go around me. If the speed differential is high, it makes sense for them to try to slingshot around me to the outside, in which case I give up the line and stay just inside it until they get by.

Hmmm....... Interesting.

I go outside and slow down and they toss me. I go inside and slow down and they toss me. Tried slowing down on the freakin straightaway and dude tosses me. There was nobody for miles and he couldn't just go around.

I'm new. I'm *trying* to abide by proper etiquette and let people riding my ass overtake me and they seem to prefer knocking me off the track instead.

I can't think of any more obvious ways of going off line to consent to an overtake.

So, what am I supposed to do?

Quote from boothy :

What is etiquette, and how do you code it?

if MyWheelsYourDoor(MyWheels, YourDoor) then MoveTheHellOver(myX, myY, YourX, YourY)

If CompareSpeed(MySpeed, YourSpeed) and BehindMe(MyVector,YourVector) then SlowTheHellDown(MySpeed,YourSpeed)

Thank you for responding! And big thanks for not saying something like "RTFM" or "Try search dumbass." Coolness totally appreciated.

I've spectated on a quite a few servers now and they all have things like !info and such for rules etc. However, I can't figure out how to actully type this in to get a response. I tried "/" but that just gives me a message about admin rights.

Now, I know this is like the stupidest question in the world, but there ain't no instructions nowhere!. What do I need to do to type in !info and other server commands?

Quote from conticreative :

I have LFS for quite some time now, but out of the major sims it's the one I use the least. One of the reasons is the AI driving unrealistically.

I've only tried rFactor and LFS. The problem with rFactor is I could not get it to read my controllers properly before the 1 hour demo timed out. I figured if I can't get it to work in an hour, they're right, I know enough to make a decision. LFS fired right up and I had it all working in 10 minutes. Winner.

What other sims should I be trying? Any of them have better AI drivers?

I'm trying to prepare for live racing with other drivers, which means working on staying with the pack and overtaking properly.

The AI really don't let you practice the "right" way. Their are two basic problems, and they're pretty significant:

1. AI drivers do not understand "racing room". If I get up along side one for an inside pass, they have no problem pushing me right off the track. In an actual race, it's my understanding that once you are next to another driver, they have to give you enough room to complete your pass. Outside passes are not better. AI drivers routinely block and cut off.

2. AI drivers have no problem rear-ending me. If I get up a position or two, I inevitably get tossed by somebody from behind, spin out and have to restart. I've yet to finish an actual race after overtaking another driver.

These two problems make the single player mode virtually useless for practicing proper racing technique except for trailing dead last in the pack, which is OK, but sooner or later, I need to practice passing.

Any thoughts?