I think the carcass model Scawen uses is a bit more complex. See news from 12/2011: https://www.lfs.net/news/900

I just thought about LFS tire physics and realized that for some reason I didn’t give here the most obvious example that points to a lack of tire physics. In LFS it is impossible to make a proper competitive car for drifting.

Drifting is a good stress test for tires and I think it can be used as a kind of benchmark. One battle consists of two heats (runs/races), between two drivers, since the leader and the chaser change positions. No tire changes are allowed between the heats. So they drive both races on the same tire. There drifting series (RDS, DMEC, Formula Drift, D1) where some cars have engines of much more than 1000 horsepower, Before the start of pair run drifters also warm up tires by making donuts, wearing off part of the rubber layer and drive 2 heats in a some configuration at full throttle with a high angle and good grip. (Although some drivers claim that their tire is enough for exactly 2 laps in configuration, after which the metal cord can show through.)



Like this example with the New Jersey Raceway in total there's over 1 km of drifting, If similar conditions are made in LFS, (with same cars/power/tires/track configuration) then on a good grip, with good angle the car will only be able to drive half of configuration for first run, and then the grip will be unrealistically bad. And most likely won’t even be able to complete the second one due to tire pop.

This example vividly demonstrates not only that the LFS don't have the correct grip in relation to temperature, but also wear and tear.

Quick test, everything pretty much like I said.


Correct size replica of New Jersey Speedway.
I did a little warm up of the tires to simulate a real drift battle, lost the grip in the second half of the first run, I couldn't even finish it properly because of the loss of the grip. (I'm not at my best as a drifter right now, so you can blame me.) And tire pop in second run.

Mod - 8JFZ NAGATA SPEC.
Engine 900hp.
Weight - 1520 kg.
Tires - Road_Super, Front 245/35R19, Rear 275/35R19.

The mod is close enough to what can be in real competitions, except that it is a bit heavy, usually copm drift cars weigh about 1250kg.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

I just thought about LFS tire physics and realized that for some reason I...

Hello, my friend Alexey

1. All LFS default cars(except FBM, RAC and BF1 i guess) were made from scratch to suit the tyre physics parameters which are not obvious for people who has no degree in vehicle dynamics. As far as i understand, LFS vehicles are all about tyres they need to utilize. Weight balance, engine, suspension geometry, driver position, default setup values and all kind of stuff is strictly balanced by Scawen himself. We still have some good tools like Bob Smith's VHPA to dig into this mess, but VHPA has nothing to do with suspension geometry so thats not enough to be fair. Also, most valueable things related to tyres u can see in Editor are SA/SR and thats all.

2. 90% of real competitive drift vehicles are using so called "wisefab kits", so the suspension geometry and handling balance of these cars are far from what was done by car manufacturer and engineers. I'd rather say the "real" conditions u are talking about, well, its all about vehicles which just suck in handling the tyres in a right way. Im absolutely sure here, maybe except some cars like z05 which was engineered to utilize 18-19 diameter rims with wide tyres. As far as i can judge, in RU pro drift scene we have all kinds of japanese and european FR cars but the way those cars were "tuned" is just to add wide "grippy" tyres. Those kind of adjustments makes some drivers struggle when they are behind the wheel.

So, until we get more suspension info in LFS Editor + new VHPA in new patch and/or people who are interested to dig into physics part more than, lets say adding triangles into a wheel 3d mesh, u gotta enjoy your drift mods tuned by all kinds of teenager players


P.S. Houssem mods are not bad in terms of physics, gotta admit that. Much respect

Quote from paket42x :

Hello, my friend Alexey...

This topic is about tires and not suspension, so I don't understand the point of this comment.

I just gave a simple example that with the current tire physics do not have enough tires for 2 runs, and that's it.

Just try to read

Also important to note that the compounds that LFS ships with are fairly generic. Like they're not shipping "drift" compounds or even oval compounds (in the case of the stock car mods).

Real life you have Goodyear bringing a different compound to nearly every track which will suit that tracks load and try to optimize the tyre to work its best (sometimes oo good becuase they have incredibly grippy rocks that never wear)

Quote from gu3st :

Also important to note that the compounds that LFS ships with are fairly...

I completely agree, I don’t see the point of having different brands of tires in LFS. It would be reasonable if these brands have different treadwear.

Quote from paket42x :

P.S. Houssem mods are not bad in terms of physics, gotta admit that. Much respect

What about martin18 mods and mods tuned by him?

Quote from Evolution_R :

What about martin18 mods and mods tuned by him?

I suck in driving but will give them a try tomorrow for sure

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

I completely agree, I don’t see the point of having different brands of tires in LFS. It would be reasonable if these brands have different treadwear.

Mod cars just need to have a bit more input into their own tyre properties (assuming it's possible in Scawen's physics model). The different brands are nice just for visual variety (although also unrealistic as almost all series are "spec" tyres at this point)

First thing... I would like to have more feedback about tyre wear.

Seond... I will go a bit controversial here...
It would be nice to have some ability to adjust tyre parameters in mod cars.
1. Compound - harder-softer u know but beyond what we have now so ability to make softer tyres than R1 and harder than R4 (for drifting)
2. Sidewall stiffness - drag tyres have very very soft sidewall, rally tyres have very stiff. It should affect the weight (stiffer = heavier).
3. Tread Pattern Depth - more could make tyre less grippy on tarmac but more grippy on off-road surfaces.
4. Textures

U now gona say "but that allows for cheat tyres", "people gona make unrealistic tyres".
1. If someone host a race, they can use cars with the same tyres from same modder or make it himself.
2. Everyone have different perception of realism. It's just a fun game and reviewers can reject cars with unreal tires but I don't think that u could make something very unrealistic with system I suggested above.

From when I last dug into LFS tyre physics (around 2009 or 2010) I concluded they heated and cooled too slowly, but lost too much grip when too hot or cold. These factors average out during racing, to give reasonable amounts of grip change, but fall apart in extreme conditions, like drifting.

Im just putting in my two cents regarding the rallycross tire.

In rallycross nowadays the most used (and best tyre) is the Avon/Cooper/Nova ACB11.

Used on a 600hp Supercar on tarmac. They have no problem lasting for 4 laps and atleast 3 full qualifying heats, before they are needed to be changed. Same tyre applies on local RWD-FWD rallycross aswell getting fantastic results.

So a more durable Rallycross/Hybrid tyre should also be in the new update. Now its 3 laps on concrete and red on 124bhp per ton car.

A bit more grip is needed. But most of all durability needs to be up a bit

Thanks!

The accuracy and realism of LFS can be enhanced, but as a developer, it’s crucial to avoid overcomplicating the engine to the point where additional complexity yields diminishing returns in performance. Achieving this balance is incredibly challenging; even Formula 1 teams, with their extensive resources, occasionally find that their simulator data does not always align with real-world track experiences, despite all their efforts.

And on top of all this, Tire may not be limited to rubber today. Also tires has different frames inside rubber shell, such as steel and various different alloys.

Of course, only the contact surface matters most... but if we are speaking tire improvements generally...