Angered peoples, you do realize that testing a piece of software for vulnerabilities is basically the only way of finding and fixing them? There's a reason for exploit testing software such as Nessus being available.

Would you rather have n3o finding this sort of stuff and keeping it for himself? would be alot "smarter" to keep this a secret and then get to the top of the MHR by cheating as little as possible.

You also do realize that even if n3o is a skilled programmer, he's probably not the greatest programming genius that ever lived and hasn't spent four years working day and night on this, meaning this sort of exploit could probably be (quite easily) found by other people too, fixing it would be very beneficial for LFS.

In my opinion, n3o has helped Scawen find a serious exploit, meaning Scawen had time to work on the updated track selection menu instead of looking for obscure exploits.

Quote from n3o :

, i did nothing wrong, its just like mecanik or LFSTweak.

I dont want to start flame discussion because its notmy taste but its obviously that you have done something wrong by giving the program out of your hands.
The point is that your tool works online for latest patch while the other not.

Its like I would have a weapon and give it to terrorist and they would made somethign wrong.There would be no excuse for me.I would by guilty.I know its a bit harsh but thats just my opinion on this issue.

Hope you can still fix what you have done.

filur, I'm not a fan of security through obscurity, but just like n3o you're missing the big picture.

Quote from filur :

Angered peoples, you do realize that testing a piece of software for vulnerabilities is basically the only way of finding and fixing them? There's a reason for exploit testing software such as Nessus being available.

Would you rather have n3o finding this sort of stuff and keeping it for himself? would be alot "smarter" to keep this a secret and then get to the top of the MHR by cheating as little as possible.

You also do realize that even if n3o is a skilled programmer, he's probably not the greatest programming genius that ever lived and hasn't spent four years working day and night on this, meaning this sort of exploit could probably be (quite easily) found by other people too, fixing it would be very beneficial for LFS.

In my opinion, n3o has helped Scawen find a serious exploit, meaning Scawen had time to work on the updated track selection menu instead of looking for obscure exploits.

More usefull and wise would be just giving it directly to Scawen instead of spreading it around.He gave it to his lets so called friend and the end of story we all know...
I bet Scawen would be more happy then see people angry now.Just my 2cents.

Quote from n3o :

By the way, i didn't do any crap or something like that, if the game has got bugs or a low security that's the developers problem

What if I break into your house, and say I'm not doing anything wrong because it's simply your responsibility to get a better alarm system?

I know it's a far fetched analogy, but the principle remains the same. You're doing something you could have known is wrong and you're putting the responsibility at the other side.

Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you HAVE to.

As a programmer you know that any piece of software can be compromised. There will always be a way. That means, following your logic, that you can hide behind the "it's the developer's problem" argument no matter what happens.

well said joen
will have to work somehow on my english skills

If u want to repare the dammage that you've caused, it's nice because even if u don't want to say it you're maybe a little guilty but if u realy want to help the dev, contact them instead talking here. You'll only find here angry people and its quiet normal when you see a noob who can't make 1:36 making 1:31:60 the next race speeding like chassed by hell in the straigt line. It's unfaire. It's fustrating. And we want to kill somebody (you in this case if u don't know).

Anyway, contact the dev and solve the problem with them. In place of "I want to kill you" you'll recieve "Thank you so much n3o" wich is quiet nicer don't u think?

Quote from Albieg :

filur, I'm not a fan of security through obscurity, but just like n3o you're missing the big picture.

Perhaps i am, i don't feel like this is such a big deal tbh, LFS is still in alpha and i'm not surprised these kinds of exploits are still around. I'm sure it'll be fixed and all will be back to normal.

Quote from joen :

What if I break into your house, and say I'm not doing anything wrong because it's simply your responsibility to get a better alarm system?

I've got a similar analogy, not really a reply to your post, but here goes.

Which situation would make you prioritize the issue most, a friend calling you saying your car is unlocked but he'll protect it until you've got time, or reading that your car is unlocked in the morning paper? Not saying it's a good way of making sure an issue gets priority, but its widely used and probably works. I'm not into anything like this so i couldn't say how i'd do it.

Quote from filur :

Perhaps i am, i don't feel like this is such a big deal tbh, LFS is still in alpha and i'm not surprised these kinds of exploits are still around. I'm sure it'll be fixed and all will be back to normal.

Somehow, very unlogically, I think the same way. If there is a vulnerability in a program, it's better to be found now, than when the game is ready and really breaking through for the BIG crowd.

On the other hand, Scawen does not exist for fixing leaks in the game.
(offtopic: if that was a chuck norris fact, it would continue like: "He eats all the coders so there will never be new cheats")

Quote from n3o :

Keep one thing in mind, it wasnt me who released it, there was a leak, and it was made by my friend for which i coded the app

I'm having trouble keeping track of who is who, because there are at least two cheats around, and all posters were posting under portuguese flag.
If I am not mistaken you were the one who posted the app on this forum. I'm talking about the limited version here. I replied to that post, but it and my reply were deleted from the thread very fast. If you weren't the one who posted it I'm sorry, but I think I'm right about that.

Quote :

I did this for fun, and to help a friend, never meant to cause any trouble. You guys can think whatever you want, if i really intended to do harm, i would just release the final version of this app, and i would kept updating every patch, 1 afternoon wasted for me, 1 or 2 weeks for the devs, can pretty much ruin a game.
Im not that kind of person, instead im trying to help solve the problem and preventing future ones, cause as a programmer i understand what can happen to a project when something like this happens. And it is this perspective as coder which made me waste time register in this forum, try to explain what happen and offer my help to the devs.

I think I believe you didn't really intended any harm. I just can't understand how naive you were about all this. Ofcourse it's going to leak, ofcourse it's going to ruin other people's game because of it.

The irony of this all is that if you would have thought twice about some things people could be praising you here instead of being mad at you.
A lot of people would love an LFSTweak like program that works with the latest patch. As long as it just doesn't work online and if it's been approved by the devs.

Since you're not an LFS player that probably isn't your intention to do, but it just show that sometimes it's essential to see the bigger picture.

Anyway, I hope you'll help the devs out if they need/want you to. I DO respect you for offering your help. I also hope this has been the first and final version of your app.


@DEVIL, I understand you perfectly, your english is fine

We're all jumping down this guys throat for making this 'cheat'. But I think, in a way, he should be applauded.

Not only has he made a cheat, he's (apparently) told Scawen about it, spoken openly about his thought process during the making. Okay, so a few people have it, and it will of course spread. But he strikes me as apologetic to a degree. Wouldn't it have been much easier for him to keep quiet so that if a ban does get given he wouldn't get it.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not supporting him, or condoning the program (or it's use), but I don't think he's clearly all evil. Maybe we should think about the bigger picture, i.e. the future of LFS and the cure of this vulnerability, which Scawen will acheive more easily with access to the 'mod'.

Tristancliffe,
you have must been drinking too much beer again .

Seriously the point it rather that he cant still admit that he made obviously some wrong things so some part of comunity is really upset.I said already he could help devs much better just not giving it to his friends hands and give the aplication directly to Scawen.

There will be always holes as you cant achive 100percent vulnerability as it sometimes less time and sometimes longer time but its very important what approach will take the guy who has created something like that.

I will not bash n3o here and there because he at least found out a bit what this small aplication has caused and trying to fix it.

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

I said already he could help devs much better just not giving it to his friends hands and give the aplication directly to Scawen.

Note the fact that he knew absolutely nothing about LFS, Scawen could be John Programmer at floor 14 in building C of company X.

I agree with tristan and filur,

n3o claims he was making an app for a friend and he's not part of the lfs community. As he said, what does he care about lfs? To him lfs is just some silly game. If he was an active racer and part of this community and did what he did, then you could hang him from the nearest lampost.

He made this app and found out the trouble it has caused and is making an effort to help repair the damage he unintentionally caused. He could just sit back and think 'screw it, let them sort it out'. So put some thought into the situation before you decide to lynch him.

As he so rightly said, what assurance do we have that this isn't a new cheat and it has been found earlier and used more discreetly?

Hi,

in a way it is not that bad that these cheats appeared. If Neo hasn't done this cheating tool, it would have been created by another person and probably would habe been used in a more secret way. Are you really sure that there haven't been such tools out there? Just 3-5 km/h more top speed and noone would have had a suspect. We all thought that there weren't any cheats out there, now we are proofed wrong.

Of course it would have been much better to inform the devs without letting it spread out. This was really a big mistake by Neo and the other Portuguese. Now it is out and the worst thing about this is that every fast driver is assumed to be a cheater.

Of course we all want Scawen to work on other things like weather, better A.I., LX8 But on a long-term basis for Scawen it is not wasted time to make LFS safer.

And hey, why don't we create a cheater list, so all teams could keep their servers clean by banning those cheaters?

Ciao
Veit

When this sort of things occur, I'm glad that LFS is still alpha and not completed already...

(well, you know what i mean )

Quote from shadow2kx :

Hi everybody.
Yesterday i was on a bl1 xfgti only demo server and i saw an xfgti going up to 600km/h. I was ONLINE its the important point. How is it possible?

I asked to the driver his setup. He used hard track (anyway, its impossible to have a setup that's permitting that but ... who know what's possible when you see "that" passing you?)
I asked how he's doing to go that speed and he replied to me "Turbo fuya" or something like that (apologize but i don't remember exactly).

I join a screenshot (You can see my car on the right in the grass). It's NOT a fake! Unfortunally i totaly forgot to save the replay Shame on me.

My conclusion: he used an external software (i know, i'm a genius ).

I repeat that's not a fake, i'm juste worried about the impact that can have on lfs. If its working for all cars we will soon see bf1 going mach 1. Another important thing before end this topic: in lfs the speed is limited. When you go over the maximum speed your car reset (or maybe i'm wrong) but he didn't reset and go ... realy fast. I prefere not to say the top speed i can saw you'll think i'm mad.

I had the same thoughts www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=11462

I won't argue whether he should have done this, or if he should have presented it differently to the developers, but I would argue that he should stop using the hack.

I've seen it being used as recently as yesterday under a variety of screen names.

First cheater on a FM Server. (/ban 9999)

Mc21 (28.97 pb on oval)

Yeah i'm really sorry, I got this of a friend and he said it worked, I didn't believe him so I tryed it.. I didnt see a speed difference. I'm really sorry.

why did you have to go online to try it.

Cuz i'm stupid.

Quote from Mc21 :

Yeah i'm really sorry, I got this of a friend and he said it worked, I didn't believe him so I tryed it.. I didnt see a speed difference. I'm really sorry.

Cheating sux!!And I hope U will be banned from every server in LFS-World!!!
And in my opinion U are sorry,cause someone saw U cheating!!!

Over and out!!!! illepallillepallillepallillepallillepallillepall

P.S. Other guys are working hard to get skills,U will never get them!One time cheater,everytime cheater!!

i never really answered to one of those cheat threads but now it's time i think
sad to see that even S2 licenced players risk their money just for a damn cheat
if you wanted to try it online go at least on a private server
and for me it looks like you just wanted to be fastest in their stats
or why you looked for them all the time?


its just plain stupid and i hope you get what you deserve (not alltime
ban but at least some timeout to think over the consequenzes
this can have for other fair racers and the whole lfs online part)

what worries me also that the prog seems not anymore to be only in portugese hands
so it will spread even more before scawen can do somethin about it

Quote from Mc21 :

Cuz i'm stupid.

Good call.

Honestly, I hope a zero-tolerance policy will be used regarding the use of cheats and that your license will be disabled.

The moment we will start accepting apologies and excuses it will be a signal to other cheaters that they can use cheats without big consequences.