How about whenever a user requests the server list (especially demo!), it automatically sends off the name of license holder and their license status, then it checks if that license has the license it says it has, before returning the server list to them, if it finds out that the user xxx has no license, yet LFS thinks its S2, then you know that something fishy is afoot, for a start LFS could lock itself, or something more aggressive

i would send this to the devs, but i thought id check if it would work with the community, and i have my concerns about it with 3rd party server lists

+1

I think it should send the IP adress to the devs, delete LFS and restart the computer.

wait.. how .. you can't play online if LFS is cracked..?

i dont get what your saying; if a demo person starts lfs, goes to multiplayer list, and it searches if that user has a license.....

okay i may not understand what your saying; but a few things:
1. how would it recognize the user has S2 content (unless with a license)...


.. i really have no idea what your saying to be honest

I have a counter-argument:
If a demoracer can fake an S2 license to the game, then tries to go online and your not-yet-implemented trap is triggered and his game falls back to demo-mode, what would stop the user from using the crack a second time?

Vain

There is not a single protected piece of software that has not been hacked, that is the nature of software at the moment in time.

The thing with LFS is that the online part of the game is protected because LFS world knows every player so it can spot hacked software when they try to join a game and block them.

Hacked versions can only be played offline, you are never going to stop people hacking LFS offline just like any other piece of software so why try.

The protection appears good enough at the moment.

imho it's a waste of resources. At least right now.
Every protection is vulnerable and crackable anyway.

Let the demo players use cracks if they want, they can't get online, can't they? Maybe it decreases their T1 incidents when they buy S2.

edit: didn't read Woz's post:doh:

what i was going to suggest would be that LFS goes online everytime you start it up to see if you have a license or not

the only problem.. which isn't really a problem i guess (although could be if your internet went out randomly and you wanted to play) is you would'nt be able to play without the internet (play s2 content)

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i guess a way to counter this, is everytime you go online, it checks to see that you have a license, and once it recognizes that, you can play offline with the conten

so.. basically, if you unplug your computer from the internet, run the crack, it wont allow you to play S2 content seeing that you dont have the internet; and will NOT let you play, until there is proof that you have a license

LFS needs something like VAC that steam has.. You cheat, you think you may have gotten away with it, but a week later, bam, your account is banned.

ok, what i meant was when a demo user tries to get the server list of demo (or S1 of S1 or demo) it sends off the license, and checks it its real), if not it would go back to being normal content

HOWEVER, once you know that they used the crack you could do anything from freezing the pc to doing something nasty!

i know this wont stop it being cracked, but having LFS lock itself everytime you go online might be enough to stop people getting the crack and getting them into buying S2

hey, it was just an idea!

your idea has a serious conflict:
why would a demo person search through licensed servers?

1. its not possible, demo people can look up licensed servers (least i dont think its possible?)
2. crackers cant play online anyway, so how would LFS even recognize its cracked


i still dont understand your idea

He means retrieving the list of demo-servers.
Actually that's quite possible. Everytime you go online with the demo you're crack is disabled because LFS checks the license-name (if existant).
If you're a normal demo-racer without a license all is fine.
If you're a normal S2 player and want to play on demo-servers all is fine.
If you're a cracker with a faked S2 license and retrieve the list of demo-servers the game reverses to demo-mode.
That way you'd have to re-crack the game everytime after playing online. That'd make it rather cumbersome...

Vain

Quote from Jakg :

ok, what i meant was when a demo user tries to get the server list of demo

Quote from XCNuse :

your idea has a serious conflict:
why would a demo person search through licensed servers?

the post above this probably outlines it better

yes; but this is implying that the devs know what exactly is changed in the crack file

i dont think that LFS knows that you have unlocked S2 content, unless your on a licensed server, in which case it checks to make sure you have a license

see, the thing is, its a file; its no "replacement" or actual license, its an actual cracked LFS.exe, so lfs doesn't check to see you have a license, it just says you do (with the crack)

the thing is; the cracked version of LFS right now is some old patch, so .. its not fixable, you cant just take away what they have since its old (and obviously some of them know not to upgrade to the latest patches)

so.. what someone would have to do, is create a fake crack for some newer patch, remove all cases of the current cracks, and get everyone to believe its ligitimate, then at some controlled time it would completely remove all LFS related files (incase they had a crack saved somewhere outside of the lfs folder.. it wouldn't work)

either way, this is not feasable in any simple way

Quote from Jakg :

How about whenever a user requests the server list (especially demo!), it automatically sends off the name of license holder and their license status, then it checks if that license has the license it says it has, before returning the server list to them, if it finds out that the user xxx has no license, yet LFS thinks its S2, then you know that something fishy is afoot, for a start LFS could lock itself, or something more aggressive

i would send this to the devs, but i thought id check if it would work with the community, and i have my concerns about it with 3rd party server lists

it already does! both things! whenever you try to have the server list, lfs connects before to master server and check the license before replying with server list, also when starting or joining a lan game lfs checks the license before.
regarding the ip, whenever a pc send any type of ip packet the receiving pc/server (the lfs master server in this case) knows already the sender ip, by the ip protocol itself, i don't know if lfs master server logs the clients ip (i guess not), but it knows them by means of the ip protocol itself.

so lfs master server may be aware of any cracked lfs trying to go online, but it cannot do any malevolus action (not even rebooting the pc) because in almost every country it is a very severe crime...you may argue that any of sony employees got busted and jailed for the rootkit crime, but big companies are above laws and lfs is not a big company so it must follow laws...

Quote from Jakg :

...

Tbh, I'd rather see the dedicated / non-dedicated servers become more authoritive over the speed and handling limitations on the vehicles, rather than effectively being a clever packet relay. Unfortunately this could increase the requirements for the server and Scawen's potential work load

The ideas are quite good... but I'll agree with the angry angel. I want other improvements more than unlock-protections.

What's the motivation for this? Are you seeing demo users racing around in S2 servers? I know I'm not. If you just want to stop demo users being able to unlock it (and play offline/lan/whatever) then I think you'll have a hard time doing that (suggestions here merely make it slightly more difficult). In my view, the license system is working fairly well (you can't just crack the game and play on normal s2 servers).

Honey is right - LFS already does send the username (and password, sort of) when requesting a server list, and it is supposed to match versions, and the master server won't send a list otherwise. It also hopefully checks these details again when joining any server.

BTW, I think 'speed' cheats are very hard to detect properly. Just look at Valve - they still haven't got detection right. Connection issues can give false positives, among other things.

~incase you dont know (which.. i know none of you do know)

jak and i already went over how the crack works and reverse engineered it etc. so.. this chat can really turn into what can be done about cheater cheaters (and not crackers)

I think what jak is trying to say is, create a security system that stops you from having the crack, by having LFS check if its cracked when u try to play online(Demo Servers). either way what will happen is people will use two different LFS installations if thats the case. 10 to 1 the next hack that comes out will disable any such feature.

Combating piracy is too hard to spend too much time on it, it would be far easier to convince someone through constant updates, and improving the game. If alot of demo people have a crack and have expericed the game the only thing LFS can truly advertise is its online gameplay.

o wait just realized you were talking about cheating and not cracking the same thing will happen though the next cheat will prob disable the call home feature

Quote from lalathegreat :

I think what jak is trying to say is, create a security system that stops you from having the crack, by having LFS check if its cracked when u try to play online(Demo Servers). either way what will happen is people will use two different LFS installations if thats the case. 10 to 1 the next hack that comes out will disable any such feature.

Combating piracy is too hard to spend too much time on it, it would be far easier to convince someone through constant updates, and improving the game. If alot of demo people have a crack and have expericed the game the only thing LFS can truly advertise is its online gameplay.

o wait just realized you were talking about cheating and not cracking the same thing will happen though the next cheat will prob disable the call home feature

Yes, these crackers will soon get fed up offline, get addicted like the rest of us and then have to go online"Combating piracy is too hard to spend too much time on it, it would be far easier to convince someone through constant updates, and improving the game" +1 well said,
Also does LFSW lock your ip to your user name?

Quote :

Also does LFSW lock your ip to your user name?

No and it would be unrealistic to do so too as most of us have floating IP's. Mine changes a few times a year (not too serious granted) but some people have monthly or weekly IP changes and dial up users (and there are some) find their IP changes every time they dial up.

As for the crack protection, I couldn't care less. It doesn't effect me, and it isn't going to go toward 'cheat protection' as the thread says, it's hardly solid protection, and it'll add bandwidth to LFS World without adding content.

I dont see the advantage of it.

Quote from Vain :

He means retrieving the list of demo-servers.
Actually that's quite possible. Everytime you go online with the demo you're crack is disabled because LFS checks the license-name (if existant).
If you're a normal demo-racer without a license all is fine.
If you're a normal S2 player and want to play on demo-servers all is fine.
If you're a cracker with a faked S2 license and retrieve the list of demo-servers the game reverses to demo-mode.
That way you'd have to re-crack the game everytime after playing online. That'd make it rather cumbersome...

Vain

Surely it could be possible to get it to reformat their C drive? Or at least delete LFS.

Quote from duke_toaster :

Surely it could be possible to get it to reformat their C drive? Or at least delete LFS.

nope, they could sue, but i think explaining how they have cracked LFS (make it a message that doesnt go away fro a minute with siren sounds!) and then reboots the pc

well after some research i have discovered that LFS already sends your username and password off for Licensed servers, and at least sends the username (can't test password, may try later) for Demo, so this wouldn't be that hard to do

Quote from Jakg :

nope, they could sue,

Not if it gets put in the EULA.

I think that the user name and password should be sent off the first time S2 licenced content is attempted to be used for each time LFS.exe is ran.

Yes, I appreciate that would mean needing an internet connection every time LFS is run but it's worth it IMO.