Quote :

not this again

according to todd (and i take his word for it) the force combining has come a long way since p and apparently is pretty good as it is
the slip angle curves are already as forgiving and realistic as they can be
and if anything the longitudinal slip curves will become less forgiving in the next patch (as they appear to be a little too forgivin right now)
so if anything the rwds will become harder to drive

I hope soon it'll be the last time I have to say that.. Its not so much about easy / hard to drive. Its not too 'hard', as sliding is quite easy to catch, its imo unrealistic that fairly gentle wheel movements can send cars in to oversteer. I enjoy LFS with normal front tyres fitted and super rears but there is a fair way to go before the car behaviour is realistic. Be that due to tyre issues or problems elsewhere in the physics.

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Its not too 'hard', as sliding is quite easy to catch, its imo unrealistic that fairly gentle wheel movements can send cars in to oversteer. I enjoy LFS with normal front tyres fitted and super rears but there is a fair way to go before the car behaviour is realistic. Be that due to tyre issues or problems elsewhere in the physics.

im starting to believe its a problem on your end like spiking wheel inputs or bad driving or something along those lines
especially since the fz5 which is one of the cars you like to run on normals in the front gives me nothing but understeer with supers all around

I think S3 will include a Soap Box Derby. Even if it doesn't -
LFS rules

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

I do find it a bit worrying where Scawen says a lot of time was spent on the tyres making them 'realistic' which isn't true yet. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy the odd 'test drive' in LFS but the road RWD cars with super front and super rear tyres just are not there yet.

Should Scawen feel differently (i.e. this is how it will stay) that would be a dissapointment.

Oh come on. I agree (and I'm sure Scawen would) that the tyres or not perfect yet, but implying that the tyre physics are a quick 'n' dirty job that shouldn't have taken a lot of time is just unnecessarily harsh. Especially considering that the physics of LFS are still the best in the business. Or do you disagree?

I'm sure we will see improvements in the future but at some point you have to be able to say "I like these physics and I enjoy participating in simracing like this". Otherwise you'll just be doing "test drives" in all sorts of different sims without ever really having any racing fun.

I'm certainly not saying that they're a quick and dirty job! I don't think I'm a 'bad' driver. I'm not crashing a lot, I'm just noticing its easy to get oversteer with not overly wild steering even in 3rd / 4th gear at times where in real life you see drivers really trying to throw the car into a turn.. and once that fails its understeer. With LFS you can dial in oversteer very easily. Anyway thats my opinion. With some tweaking to the setup and normal fronts I reckon its the best sim available. The hardware is far more accurate and responsive than commercially available wheels as well.

So its good, but not there yet. Also the tyres seem to loose grip in a too linear way with temperature whereas I believe real rubber has a more constant grip with rising temperature until you really get over a certain temp.

I'd say LFS is a bit of a raw diamond. Huge potential but not 'great' yet for physics realism. So I hope we'll see many physics improvements before we get a new graphics engine!

I've found in the LX's (which is the only car I've been driving recently) that yes in fast corners at 100mph/4th gear (or whatever) the rear end wants to step out even with smooth controls.

But I think that's 100% accurate. You can't make the tyres generate more grip just by being gentle - at some point you WILL exceed the limit of grip. And then you just recover it. As for the oversteer/understeer balance, I think it's partly because all LFS setups are setup for faster but riskier oversteer, and partly because you can't feel the oversteer building up though your seat.

So in terms of grip, and grip loss I think LFS is pretty close. Having opposite locked my F3 car at 90mph I think it's a fair comparison. But LFS still loses/regains traction (once it's lost, which isn't far off) a bit too gradually... Again, my F3 car is on 'forgiving' crossplies, yet still snaps a lot. Radials would make this fine line between grip and slip even finer.

Scawen has already stated he doesn't consider the tyre model 'finished', and there is no doubting it's better than it was. A few tweaks here and there (and I firmly believe it is just a few tweaks, albeit perhaps tricky, time consuming tweaks), and it will be very very good.

Regardless, there is NO OTHER SIM that gets close to LFS's feel or accuracy on tarmac. rFactor forgot to include the physics engine, Sinbin found it too complicated and simply deleted the 'Physics' folder, and nKP might have superlative tyres but no one can load the software for long enough yet to find out... If you don't like LFS then you either don't know what driving a car is really like, or you don't care about the driving and just want lens flare...

tristancliffe, good words

Anything on wheels could mean a lot of things. Bikes, gokarts, buggies etc

Limitless = maybe Dakar rally style racing?

Quote from jamesgp2viper :

Limitless = maybe Dakar rally style racing?

That would be something else...ooohh. They definitely need more rally variety though.

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

I'm certainly not saying that they're a quick and dirty job!

Maybe it just came across wrong then. The line "I do find it a bit worrying where Scawen says a lot of time was spent on the tyres making them 'realistic'..." made me go a bit .

Ah ok.. I meant worrying because it seemed to imply the current LFS tyres are very near to the final tyres as far as Scawen is concerned and I am hot totally happy with them. The tyre deformations, heat and wear per 1/48th of the tyre.. its by no means a simple model..

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

I'm just noticing its easy to get oversteer with not overly wild steering even in 3rd / 4th gear at times

i cant get the cars to oversteer with normal gentle driving inputs like id do irl ... not at all

Quote from tristancliffe :

But LFS still loses/regains traction (once it's lost, which isn't far off) a bit too gradually...

you remind me that i wanted to start a discussion on the effects of sidewall stiffness and height on the sharpness and location of the peak which currently appears to be somewhat off

It`s also in danish on our danish forum.. http://www.lfs-forum.dk/showpost.php?p=9158&postcount=2

Quote from Richard Torp :

It`s also in danish on our danish forum.. http://www.lfs-forum.dk/showpost.php?p=9158&postcount=2

Cool
All though, it needs some small adjustments.. :P
Hehehe...
Glad you all liked it.

Victor
- Don't be afraid to be a newbie. I think that many people underestimate
the difficulty of racing really fast.

i like those words :bannana_g.

Quote from FlyingSam :

Victor
- Don't be afraid to be a newbie. I think that many people underestimate
the difficulty of racing really fast.

i like those words :bannana_g.

Me 2... Thats why I have em in the signature :P