Here's something for everyone who said -1, that might just tip you into a -0.5 or 0.
I don't think there's an absolute truth in how road cars are meant to be used in LFS, some say it's closer to casual track day machines, some say it's closer to a thoroughly tuned club racing car, there's no end to such argument because LFS isn't set on real world with real specifications, at least not that the dev have suggested, different car class are here to provide different driving experience that loosely resembles some real world counterparts.
XRG and GTi resembles our daily shopping trolleys, turbo class is for the low to middle range sports car, LRF for the middle to high class sports car, then touring cars, grand touring cars, singles seaters etc etc.
Now the POINT of having these classes are to provide a variety of racing experience, it provide people choices no matter what they like, for go kart feel, you have the FOX, MRT. For some B road thrashing thrill you have the LX and say XRT, it's all very good in that aspect, in terms of variety.
The problem I think with the current setup perimeters is that, when tuned to the extreme, a Gti no longer feels like a low end shopping trolley, but more like a go kart on 5 season old rubber. The skill involved in handling the weight without perfect damping and fun of throwing the car around within a rather large performance evenlope is lost, and replaced by the knife edge feeling for race cars.
Now I have to clearify that it doesn't mean I want the cars to handle like crap, absolutely not. A handling of a car very much depends on the balance of the package, power, grip, chassis setup, when they are all put together well, you can get rewarding and finely balanced handling with feel. Just think about a 1st gen miata, or a 930 porsche 911, none of these have state of the art technologies in nowaday's standard, and will probably be out cornered by an average clio sport, but although they lacks grip and top notch stability, they can still be driven close to the limit, because the package is balanced in all aspect with sound engineering.
Looking at the currently lineup in LFS's road cars, I can see there are many potential good cars that is fun without "race" suspensions. I remember doing a race with some of the guys here with road going soft setups in the gti and xrg, and they are beautifully balanced, they roll and lean, and doesn't always regain their posture quick enough after corners, but those can be worked around with different driving styles, you actually have to adopt different ways to drive in different corners, and that is very very rewarding, the race is purely a challenge in driving skills.
The turbo class are by themselves quite nicely engineered, tried and tested recipes for low budget race cars, xrt is great out of the box, fxo might just be too good for it's class, and the RB4 basically flows with the right differential setting.
the problem group might just be the LRF, LX6 is fine - just live with the understeer and raw power. Raceabout is inheritedly dangerous, especially on the quick stuff and when lift off, and it has no rear anti-roll, so that's a design issue.Fz5 is actually fine to drive if you know how, being a rear engine car it's naturally handicapped, however most rewarding when you get it right, and it is indeed possible to drive around the problems.
All in all I think the direction of more simple setup is the right path, and actually it has been done already, anyone remember we took out the street super tires for the Gti and XRG, and we also took out the rebound damping? I don't know what hotlappers think about it, but I don't feel majorly handicapped while trying to drive these cars after that patch. And they don't suddenly became a bore to drive with street normals.
All I wanted to say is that..."feel" is something we usually lack in racing sims, and LFS is special in a way that, you instantly "feel" it's different from any other racing sim on the market, one part being the better physics, the other part i gather, is that not much sims out there do honest simple street cars. Certainly it's one thing to admire the algility and response of race cars, however there should also be some space for some factory stock feel, that should be found in the road cars (or else why call it the road cars at the first place?). Of course this will take away the fun of people who want something in the middle, but I think maybe that's a good direction to go when the devs put in new cars for S3 or some later patch, to produce some track tuned sports cars, it's a tough call though because the variety in tuning is huge, and the fun part is you decide the exact spec of your car, and that cannot be fully replicated in setup options, unless you get turbo boost adjustments or sort.
long post, I'll give it a +1, although how much we should get rid of will surely have to be discussed in depth.
I don't think there's an absolute truth in how road cars are meant to be used in LFS, some say it's closer to casual track day machines, some say it's closer to a thoroughly tuned club racing car, there's no end to such argument because LFS isn't set on real world with real specifications, at least not that the dev have suggested, different car class are here to provide different driving experience that loosely resembles some real world counterparts.
XRG and GTi resembles our daily shopping trolleys, turbo class is for the low to middle range sports car, LRF for the middle to high class sports car, then touring cars, grand touring cars, singles seaters etc etc.
Now the POINT of having these classes are to provide a variety of racing experience, it provide people choices no matter what they like, for go kart feel, you have the FOX, MRT. For some B road thrashing thrill you have the LX and say XRT, it's all very good in that aspect, in terms of variety.
The problem I think with the current setup perimeters is that, when tuned to the extreme, a Gti no longer feels like a low end shopping trolley, but more like a go kart on 5 season old rubber. The skill involved in handling the weight without perfect damping and fun of throwing the car around within a rather large performance evenlope is lost, and replaced by the knife edge feeling for race cars.
Now I have to clearify that it doesn't mean I want the cars to handle like crap, absolutely not. A handling of a car very much depends on the balance of the package, power, grip, chassis setup, when they are all put together well, you can get rewarding and finely balanced handling with feel. Just think about a 1st gen miata, or a 930 porsche 911, none of these have state of the art technologies in nowaday's standard, and will probably be out cornered by an average clio sport, but although they lacks grip and top notch stability, they can still be driven close to the limit, because the package is balanced in all aspect with sound engineering.
Looking at the currently lineup in LFS's road cars, I can see there are many potential good cars that is fun without "race" suspensions. I remember doing a race with some of the guys here with road going soft setups in the gti and xrg, and they are beautifully balanced, they roll and lean, and doesn't always regain their posture quick enough after corners, but those can be worked around with different driving styles, you actually have to adopt different ways to drive in different corners, and that is very very rewarding, the race is purely a challenge in driving skills.
The turbo class are by themselves quite nicely engineered, tried and tested recipes for low budget race cars, xrt is great out of the box, fxo might just be too good for it's class, and the RB4 basically flows with the right differential setting.
the problem group might just be the LRF, LX6 is fine - just live with the understeer and raw power. Raceabout is inheritedly dangerous, especially on the quick stuff and when lift off, and it has no rear anti-roll, so that's a design issue.Fz5 is actually fine to drive if you know how, being a rear engine car it's naturally handicapped, however most rewarding when you get it right, and it is indeed possible to drive around the problems.
All in all I think the direction of more simple setup is the right path, and actually it has been done already, anyone remember we took out the street super tires for the Gti and XRG, and we also took out the rebound damping? I don't know what hotlappers think about it, but I don't feel majorly handicapped while trying to drive these cars after that patch. And they don't suddenly became a bore to drive with street normals.
All I wanted to say is that..."feel" is something we usually lack in racing sims, and LFS is special in a way that, you instantly "feel" it's different from any other racing sim on the market, one part being the better physics, the other part i gather, is that not much sims out there do honest simple street cars. Certainly it's one thing to admire the algility and response of race cars, however there should also be some space for some factory stock feel, that should be found in the road cars (or else why call it the road cars at the first place?). Of course this will take away the fun of people who want something in the middle, but I think maybe that's a good direction to go when the devs put in new cars for S3 or some later patch, to produce some track tuned sports cars, it's a tough call though because the variety in tuning is huge, and the fun part is you decide the exact spec of your car, and that cannot be fully replicated in setup options, unless you get turbo boost adjustments or sort.
long post, I'll give it a +1, although how much we should get rid of will surely have to be discussed in depth.
cars without =