So...

Stalling when stopped at a light, and the car behind you thinks you will be moving and rear ends you, then that is an accident.

Stalling or not being quick enough at a light on a hill and rolling back into the car behind you, then that is an accident.

Stalling in bumper to bumper traffic on a freeway/highway, and you can cause accidents behind you.

Plenty of more examples, and I don't see how it is pointless. And in all these situations, they are in tight traffic where you can feel very cramped. If you mess up, there is a higher chance something will happen. Recovering from one wouldn't still be enough time if the person behind you cannot react quicker.

Manual is far more prone to causing accidents, and just because you've 'mastered' the stick, doesn't mean we are incompetent from using automatic... that is so absurd and ignorant on your part.... especially when you are trying to claim that manual is never problematic of stalling or never unsafe :rolleyes: Anything can happen on the road with automatic or stick, and if you put an experienced stick driver behind the wheel many incidents could still happen -- it's not like you are 100% perfect every shift and every movement. Automatic would provide you with your hands on the wheel at all times, but it's too bad we have all these noobs with cellphones in the car and/or driving with one hand like they are some rap superstar . Going to be a law next year in California that you can't drive with your cellphone, w00t \o/

I would say that if there would be only autos or manuals, then let it be autos, because I'm really tired to these local heroes that are so slow to get moving from traffic lights that only few cars can go when it is back to red, with auto they could be about 200 times faster

But I don't see any point arguing which one is better as that is just impossible to say.

They have had that over here for the last 2-3 years. Doesn't stop anyone.

And being a good driver means you expect someone to **** up in front of you so you don't back end them. Part of being a good driver is knowing how to sift and handle the car, but it's mostly knowing not to do something that'll put you in risk. Bumper to bumper traffic for example, I don't move until I can see the road. So if [s]he stalls I have room to stop.

All those things you listed are examples of what happens to people who have passed their test but have not learnt to drive yet. And other than the hill (though really it means the other guy was to close to the one in front) they are the other drivers fault. If you EVER back end anyone it is your fault. If they back into you it is their fault. But if they back into you because they stalled on a hill and rolled onto you, it was your fault for not leaving room for them to stop if it does happen. Of course, if you left plently of room and they still rolled into you, they are an idiot behind the wheel and it's not really the fault of the stall but the fact they cannot drive.

all those cases is because of an incompetent driver (either the one who stalled, or the one behind him) and it is not because "you may stall a manual". a manual may not stall by itself, it is the driver's fault. accept some responsibility in what you do with your car.

first case: the driver behind you just blindly slammed into you... and it is the "manual" that is risky? not the idiot driver who first starts off and then checks to see if the traffic in front is moving or not?
second case: what are brakes for? bling?
third case is the same as the first case.

manual is not prone to cause accidents, not any more or less than a knife. it is a tool. if you stall it it is the driver's fault.

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and just because you've 'mastered' the stick, doesn't mean we are incompetent from using automatic... that is so absurd and ignorant on your part....

you should not read only what you want to read and ignore the rest.

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can't drive stick without stalling, or you are lazy and do not want to do the work, you want others to do it for you.

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especially when you are trying to claim that manual is never problematic of stalling or never unsafe

uh... i never claimed that manual is "never problematic of stalling". any car can be problematic. driving manual forces you to learn it... so you spend even more time learning the car. it is not "power on, go" anymore. if you think that in doing so diverts attention from the traffic around you, you are either going way too fast, or you are not competent enough to shift without thinking about it.

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More small accidents happen from inexperienced stick users than any automatic user that last I heard. Automatic is safer (easier) for our streets at least, which is why it is the more dominant option on cars you buy nowadays. Expecting someone to drive stick is like expecting someone to do a flip on a bike...

I was reading this laughing until I realised you where serious, then I laughed harder. 'stick' it transpires is an American term of a manual gearbox car, and apparently it is some kind of zenith to drivers over there...

No seriously, this was a shock to me, I had no idea that manual transmission was only spoken of in wispers and installed in cars sold by drug dealers on the black market, "Hey man, you wonna buy some stick?" of course, I imagine most of the problem is lack of training/practice - because whilst I think it isn't actually terribly hard to drive a manual I do remember my first driving lesson well still, and a very long wait at a set of traffic lights for all those unlucky enough to be behind me...

Anyway all of this is totally irrellevent, if the kid hadn't driven before, or been shown how to drive, or has asked questions about it, then he can't be expected to drive.

The father is not just out of sorts here, he's actually neglecting his child. He would not let his son stick his hand into an industrial lave whilst it's milling out metal work would he? Yet it's ok for him to sit in a car, with no tuition, and play.

When he took his driving test it should have been explained to him that the reason he needs a license is because driving a car is a responsibility. They dont give out pilots licenses to just anybody (*pause to hold in a bad taste joke*) - a car license is little different, the only difference infact, is it is statistically more dangerous but alarmingly more common.

But that's ok, we'll just give the kid some keys, give him no tuition, and see what happens when he turns it over.

you mean lathe?

One of those too

What's wrong with saying 'stick'? If I call a wrench a 'spanner' is that something that is funny? I still don't understand why language has to be so blunt and distinct these days... not everything is out of your own book.

Why do we have to pick at things so heavily on these forums, aghhhhh. This place is turning into RSC

Beware the manual people! The horror of traffic who stall their cars and cause huge accidents by being lazy and incompitent!

I really don't get why tweaker is putting me into some stick people, I would much rather drive automatic because it simply is more pleasent when you drive in cities or need to stop once in a while. Everyone can learn to drive with manual. It is not hard nor some special skill. In Europe the automatic transmission is the more expensive and people are used to manual transmissions. My father would never buy automatic, probably because he has never driven one.

That being said I don't think that Americans are more worse or better drivers than any other nation in general? Why would they be? Driving automatic or manual makes _no_ difference on your driving safety. I'd like to see any article that says manuals are dangerous because all the car makers would use this slogan immediatelly in EU to sell more expensive transmissions with the car.

RSC, right.

Stick is really stick shift, when your shifter is built into the steering collum on the same sort of sticks as the other stuff you find around there, so automatic not manual. But it has changed over time and now stick is manual, which makes no sense.

But then anyone who spells "fount" "font" or "colour" "color" makes no sense anyway.

Quote from Gabkicks :

on the jeremy clarkson show from a decade or so ago (motorworld) there was an episode on Italy.

yup - that is the worst i've seen, i saw two people on scooters riding next to each other so they could talk, and both people on the scooters were turned round :X How they survive i dont know!

Anyway, i am 15, and can drive a Manual, why? because my Dad took me to an abondoned Airfeild with an old VW Golf to teach me. The first 5 times i stalled, like everyone does, then i got the knack of it and haven't stalled since (...well, i did leave it in gear, put the handbrake on and start it once ). There is no way that the kid would be able to move the car forward on his first time, and perhaps he though you needed alot of the throttle to get it moving, how would he know?

The father knows the kid doesn't have any experience, and that that car has a LOT of power, he is stupid for letting the kid drive it, if he can drive a manual, im sure he stalled it a few times, too. Letting him in that car is a stupid idea in such a confined space, and although the kid probably shouldn't of said he can drive a manual, he will because his dad has a nice new car HE want's to drive. He understands about slipping the clutch out, but, because of lack of practice he WILL cock it up.

Oh, and my Dad has an Auto Vauxhall Omega, loves it, and will never go back to a manual. Why? Because he's lazy, he doesn't want to drive, he wants to get there in the most comfortable and most relaxing way. What's wrong with that?

Quote from Jakg :

Oh, and my Dad has an Auto Vauxhall Omega, loves it, and will never go back to a manual. Why? Because he's lazy, he doesn't want to drive, he wants to get there in the most comfortable and most relaxing way. What's wrong with that?

Ones driving degrades because of which. That's what is wrong with it. Don't get me wrong, I love the Omega, it's a smooth ride, has a responsive and informative drive, like you're driving around in an arm chair and if I had the cash I'd buy my own. But it's all the fancy gizmos that take driving out of the hands of the driver that are the problem as you start to get too relaxed which is a bad thing when you're driving around in a tonne of metal.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Ones driving degrades because of which. That's what is wrong with it. Don't get me wrong, I love the Omega, it's a smooth ride, has a responsive and informative drive, like you're driving around in an arm chair and if I had the cash I'd buy my own. But it's all the fancy gizmos that take driving out of the hands of the driver that are the problem as you start to get too relaxed which is a bad thing when you're driving around in a tonne of metal.

In short those fancy gizmos can prevent accidents because there are people who don't know what to do if the rear ens starts to step out. There are indeed peiople who have no idea. I understand your point that the driver can make more errors and the computer then corrects them without the driver even noticing, making the ride more pleasent when in fact you are driving on the edge all the time. But in case when something surprizing happens, you usually have very short time to do anything and the chances are - you will do it wrong.

Quote from Hyperactive :

That being said I don't think that Americans are more worse or better drivers than any other nation in general? Why would they be? Driving automatic or manual makes _no_ difference on your driving safety.

Automatic is an aid like ABS for example, and as said here aids can make people less focused on their driving and controlling it. I heard from my driving instructor that insurance company had made a study when the ABS system was still an option in cars, and they found that people in the same car model but with ABS had more accidents. Why? Well, because they knew that the system helps to stop quicker with no skill, so they started to brake later and drive faster at winter which of course is a bit risky and can cause a bumb or two if you are such an idiot.

And about the manual, I think it's a great way to learn handle a car and unlike tweak thinks, it will come natural after a while and you wont stall. Stalling and accidents is a thing so funny that I just don't go in to it. :P

Edit. One more thing I have to say, it's stupid when you always here "car did that, and that" and people blame the cars of accident and bad driving. That's what it looks like from the outside but in the inside it's the driver who make the mistakes or drive too fast and then mess up.

He should know about driving cars before he gets into it.

In my country, there has been news of about 15 year old kid gets his parents car and drives very fast on highway and then crashes...like WTF?

Im suprised that someone says: "Do you think that 14 year old do know how to drive?" That sentence sounds like all 14 year olds dont know how to drive. My post is nothing new, offcourse i didnt read the whole thread, but just my post.
Thank you

heheheh funny vid, that little rich punk would be paying in body parts here in the UK. Us Limeys learn to drive quite early, most guys i know could prolly drive a car at 15/16. When UK guys are young they like to get Police Chases, as this teaches them vital driving techniques in the shortest possible time! So as a nation I can quite happily say that our (UK) kids are better than your (any other Country) kids at driving. I can get a Pie Chart if you need proof.

So in summary - Autos are strictly for Fat Hairdressers called 'Chump Muffin' or 'Dick Steel' or 'Chad'.

...and we all know what 'they' say about women, children & animals, now dont we!

...now where did i put me flame retardant thong system.....

Quote from Eleanor SpeedGT :

blah

you can not hold a child 14 year old responsible for crashing the car.
it doesn't matter if the child can or can't drive, it is irrelevant.
the only one responsible for this accident is the parent and the owner of the car.

and the video is not funny, not in the least. it is sad.

now that i think about it, you can't hold responsible anyone,that doesn't know how to drive a car, for crashing it.

Since he doesn't know how to drive a car, why did you give him control of one? what did you expect to happen? he will crash it of course! Then what? are you going to ask him to pay for it? That is wrong. He doesn't know how to drive, he does not know what to expect to happen when he uses its controls. An adult can understand if the device that is given to him is something that must be first learned to operate, but a child can not do that. If someone gives me the keys to a helicopter, i would say "no way dude"... but a kid? You think a child can show self restraint? You think a child can understand the level of complexity of operating a helicopter?

that is why we have driving instructors and driving schools, so that someone who doesn't know how to drive, can learn in a safe enviroment. Safe for him and for the others.

Quote from Jakg :

yup - that is the worst i've seen, i saw two people on scooters riding next to each other so they could talk, and both people on the scooters were turned round :X How they survive i dont know!

Anyway, i am 15, and can drive a Manual, why? because my Dad took me to an abondoned Airfeild with an old VW Golf to teach me. The first 5 times i stalled, like everyone does, then i got the knack of it and haven't stalled since (...well, i did leave it in gear, put the handbrake on and start it once ). There is no way that the kid would be able to move the car forward on his first time, and perhaps he though you needed alot of the throttle to get it moving, how would he know?

The father knows the kid doesn't have any experience, and that that car has a LOT of power, he is stupid for letting the kid drive it, if he can drive a manual, im sure he stalled it a few times, too. Letting him in that car is a stupid idea in such a confined space, and although the kid probably shouldn't of said he can drive a manual, he will because his dad has a nice new car HE want's to drive. He understands about slipping the clutch out, but, because of lack of practice he WILL cock it up.

Oh, and my Dad has an Auto Vauxhall Omega, loves it, and will never go back to a manual. Why? Because he's lazy, he doesn't want to drive, he wants to get there in the most comfortable and most relaxing way. What's wrong with that?

My dad said he will take me to a car park in his Megane 225. The car scares me though lol he floored it yesterday and the wheels wouldn't stop spinning. There's so much tracking on the car and he wants ME to drive it lol

Knowing Americans someone problem left the car in 1st, so the kid jumped in gunned the engine and wee. If he didn't know how to drive he wouldn't have been able to put the car into first without mulching the gearbox, and you'd know if he did.

If it was an auto then that's why they are deadly cars, kids can drive them. Ban automatic cars!!11oneone

Quote from george_tsiros :

now that i think about it, you can't hold responsible anyone,that doesn't know how to drive a car, for crashing it.

Since he doesn't know how to drive a car, why did you give him control of one? what did you expect to happen? he will crash it of course! Then what? are you going to ask him to pay for it? That is wrong.

that is why we have driving instructors and driving schools, so that someone who doesn't know how to drive, can learn in a safe enviroment. Safe for him and for the others.

You can hold people that are 18 or older resposible for what they are doing, and in Finland, in some cases, over 15 years-old. The idea behind this is that a person old enough should have intelligence and composure to not to get into such situation, i.e. you should not get into a car and start the car if you don't how to drive it.

I agree 100% with george that you can't expect a 14 years-old to know how to drive. It doesn't mean that a 14 could not learn how to drive.

btw do the still have chicken lanes in franche ? a few decades back they had those fun roads with 3 lanes ... one for each direction and a 3rd one for overtaking in both directions

Quote from Tweaker :

and even when my brakes are 'fading' from downhill mountain driving, it is a good safety measure to have the car in low gear and to pump the parking brake whenever needed.

uh the handbrake uses the same brakeing calipers as the footbreak tweak

Quote from Tweaker :

Stalling or not being quick enough at a light on a hill and rolling back into the car behind you, then that is an accident.

have you ever driven a manual at all ? if youve stalled you wont roll back

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Stalling in bumper to bumper traffic on a freeway/highway, and you can cause accidents behind you.

its impossible to stall a car in any other situation then starting from a standstill or slowing down to one
ie a car doenst move if its stalls

Quote from NetDemon01 :

At the end do I hear "Don't worry you'll get a new bike" ?? This is pretty funny. Stupid kid, even dumber Dad or whoever gave him the keys.

One of the other kids got his bike run over.

Maybe someone who shoots himself in the face with a Howitzer isn't responsible?

Shotglass, you'll roll back if you don't hold the brakes as you leave it in 1st and keep the clutch up to restart the engine.
Chickenlanes still exist.

Don't quite know whos fault it is but as he turns the key, having it in gear, makes it roll... lol...
Maybe the kid had his foot on the clutch and thought he only needed it to start the car and then released it... Maybe he pressed wrong as well, instead of breaks he pressed the stereo buttons...looooll......

Quote from Breizh :

Shotglass, you'll roll back if you don't hold the brakes as you leave it in 1st and keep the clutch up to restart the engine.

must take a special kind of idiot to do that, lol!