Quote from jamesgp2viper :

There's absolutely no point in holding up a car trying to lap you. The longer you hold a faster car behind you, the more time you lose yourself.

Agree. But the point is, that in LFS, the slower drivers are so unpredictable.. That's why I usually send a blue flag message very soon. So they have tons of time to find a decent place to let me pass.

And I found out that the slower drivers usually can't really estimate how long it will take for that faster driver approach..

Personally, I find those blue flag-messages extremely annoying and if somebody thinks he has to spam the server with those, don't expect me to move over one millimetre more than he needs to pass me... And when he can't get past then without taking us both out: Tough... My race wasn't worth very much anyway when I get blue flags...

Quote from Darkone55 :

Agree. But the point is, that in LFS, the slower drivers are so unpredictable.

No, they are just slower... How much more predictable do you need them to be? And its your car, your responsibility to guide it safely through an overtake. By spamming early you're just adding pressure to ensure the slower driver meets your expectations of unpredictability. Its called "passing the blame".

Sorry, this thread should be allowed to die, because its one of those "I'm entrenched" type of arguments....

But... come on... its irresistable. Vent here and then you won't need to spam on track!

I don't see the point in sending a "blue flag" message. If you're lapping someone, surely they're getting a giant "BLUE FLAG" message from LFS in the middle of their screen anyway If they don't obey it, then they get to deal with the consequences: a kick/ban, maybe some colourful language, an overly aggressive passing move, perhaps even some polite schooling after the race

Besides, many people block messages once the start sequence is under way so there's no guarantee your message has even been seen by the backmarker.

I don't see this as an issue to be taking sides on, or becoming "entrenched" in one point of view. It's not only common sense & courtesy, it's a rule in practically every form of RL racing (I know Bernie's F1 Flying Circus isn't the best example but the spirit of the rule is the same). People should know what to do, both when they receive a blue flag from LFS and when they're catching a backmarker. I think a sticky might be in order, along the lines of the "I got banned" thread (whoever suggested that, good idea :up. Sure, not everyone would read it but if there was a sticky to refer people to it might reduce us all repeating ourselves a bit

Quote from nihil :

No, they are just slower... How much more predictable do you need them to be? And its your car, your responsibility to guide it safely through an overtake. By spamming early you're just adding pressure to ensure the slower driver meets your expectations of unpredictability. Its called "passing the blame".

Sorry, this thread should be allowed to die, because its one of those "I'm entrenched" type of arguments....

But... come on... its irresistable. Vent here and then you won't need to spam on track!

QFT!

This was recently posted by Steve Cloyd. The whole text is worth a gander, but here's the pertinent bit:

Quote :

That said people still make mistakes. Lord knows I still do and I’ve been doing this for over 10 years now. In my opinion there is nothing harder in any sim than coming up on a car going 40mph or so slower than you in a turn and trying to guess what he or she is going to do, or conversely, being that slower driver knowing he’s coming and trying to decide what the hell to do. I’ve been on both sides of that fence. When I was first starting out, I got drilled a few times from behind. I’ve also been on the other side where I was faster and guessed wrong. I know how each guy in that scenario feels. I also know the odds are neither person meant to wreck the other.

If you find yourself in either position, I find it best to just apologize, move on, and save the replay to see if there was anything you could have done differently. Could I have slowed a bit earlier and tried to pass him in a different place? Did I not give him enough room? Did I drift off-line and then swerve back onto the line as the faster guy went by?

Literally put yourself in the other person’s car in the replay and imagine you’re them. What did they see? Could you expect them to react differently than they did? Sometimes what you see from the other person’s perspective, fast or slow, can be quite shocking. Sometimes shit just happens.

Sometimes though you can spot something you could do to change a situation you thought was another guys fault in the heat of battle. We’re all in this together.

You know. I have never considered watching my car from another cars cabin like that. That could be fun all by itself!

Gonna save replays like that more often and look at them later cause I am dieing to see what I did to wreck them accidentally when I though I was sticking to my line and so on.

C.

Steve makes a good point about viewing replays of incidents to gain some perspective and I think many RL drivers would do the same thing, if only to confirm what they thought happened anyway. However I realise LFS's replay system isn't the most instantly accessible - you can't check a replay straight away without leaving the server altogether and loading it up. We all know the pain of speeding through a 10+ lap replay to see one incident, missing it and then cursing the fact that we can't reverse or edit a replay in-game - you need to first video-capture it with another program and maybe even edit it with yet another one.

Mostly, leaving replays aside, I think we all need to realise that we're as human as the next guy and just as prone to mistakes as the next guy. In LFS the cars and effects may be simulated but the racing itself - the contest between humans - is very real, as are the passions and emotions that arise from it. If more people can remember that fact, sim racing would be more pleasurable for more people more of the time

Quote from TypeRCivic :

I've been racing in CONEDOGERS with the FZR international and nothing bothers me more then PEOPLE OVER DOING BLUE FLAG. I'll be infront of someone with a blue flag on my screen and i'm fighting for my position and they say GHOSTRYDER BLUE FLAG....BLUE FLAG.... then as i approach a turn they rear end me and spin me out!!!!! IF they have the faster car they can get me on the straight away, why am i going to slow down and let tem pass when i'm intitled to fight for my position as long as it's clean, right? Well thats not how it goes. I have never intentionally bumped anyone or caused a wreck to keep my position.

What a hell of a luck i see this thread.

I was this guy coming from behind to overtake u! try to tell the whole story when u want to blame one.

I was the race leader having a close race with the guy behind me. u, my friend, were more then 2 laps behind me with noone infront of u who you could have raced.

so i was closing u fast on start streight heading T1. just as i wanted to pass u in the inside of the corner u managed to get in my way and blocked me the first time.

i stood behind you to get the draft for passing u on the way to the 2 hairpins. i was going to pass u just as we reached the streight before the 2 hairpins when u decided to head in my direction to block me a second time. i had to make a decision go on the grass ruining my race or defending my line which u were heading for when i was beside u.

so u didnt only block me, u wrecked my and your car aswell.
by the way there was showing up one "blue flag" massage when u blocked me the first time in the T1 corner coming from an admin.


what the hell make u think u have to fight when u are beeing lapped? i dont get it into my head, sorry...

Quote from TypeRCivic :

I've been racing in CONEDOGERS with the FZR international and nothing bothers me more then PEOPLE OVER DOING BLUE FLAG. I'll be infront of someone with a blue flag on my screen and i'm fighting for my position and they say GHOSTRYDER BLUE FLAG....BLUE FLAG.... then as i approach a turn they rear end me and spin me out!!!!! IF they have the faster car they can get me on the straight away, why am i going to slow down and let tem pass when i'm intitled to fight for my position as long as it's clean, right? Well thats not how it goes. I have never intentionally bumped anyone or caused a wreck to keep my position.

ahh, are you the bloke who was holding me up???

black FZR?

yes i remember, i belive i was pretty high up in the race order (2/3 position?), driving a bloody FXR and you never yielded to the blue flag, i DO NOT put up a blue flag message myself, i think they are gay, but i do remember others putting up a message who were watching you

Turn 2 at aston nat, i move towards the outside kerb expecting you to hit the brakes and let me past (after all you never slowed up while approaching the turn!!??!!) to find you swinging out towards the kerb, i locked up and hit your back end spinning you out, IIRC i came out much better and you spat your dummy out.

you are a crap driver

Quote from Fischfix :

i think he is complaining about the fact, faster drivers sometimes behave like they are stalin/hitler/napolen and think everyone who is in their way should dissolve and better never touch a wheel again...

this is not true, he was not letting me past safely!!! he swung out which was on route to force me off the track, just as i was starting to turn left for turn 2,

any normal person would have backed off the throttle a little before turn 2 and let the car behind past!!??!!

he was just gutted because a FXR driver was storming through and he wanted to throw his toys from the pram, plenty of people were watching at the time, like i say i do not use a Fkey "blue flag get the feck outa there" message

Quote from tomylee :

You guys don't understand what TypeRCivic is saying. He is fighting with somebody on the same lap and then comes a faster car.

there was no other car for him to battle with
i can assure you, wish i had saved the bloody replay

god its a good job i have not been able to sleep tonight or i might have missed this thread LOL
his PB at aston is "fz50 gtr 1:45.36"

it looks like it is indeed the same person, maybe he never checked his mirrors, maybe he never realised i was there?

maybe his google adblocker stopped the "blue flag" popping up onscreen LOL

i have my thoughts on the subject

Now we have two people coming forward being the one that's lapping this guy. Hmmm.

Quote from Davo :

Now we have two people coming forward being the one that's lapping this guy. Hmmm.

who is the other?

this ghostryder person might not be the same one, but i do remember him driving a black FZR, i pretty much ignored the "incident" at the time and it was not until after the race when the toys were thrown from the pram, he was not banned at the incident, so maybe there was another afterwards?

i race at conedodgers most nights it was the first time i had ever seen him

FWIW i can remeber asking him about the blue flag after the race (i normaly drive wth blocked messages anyway), and got some waffle back, i then rember typing in something along the lines of "you tried to force me off and got your arse wiped" meaning as i turned left and locked a little i skimmed the back end of his rear
he took this as "you got your arse whipped" and started getting angry LOL

I agree totally. I was on a server (I won't mention which one) where some guy was smart enough to yell BLUE FLAG three times or so, and then he bumped me. Mind you, this wasn't on a straight, this was a narrow chicane. If it was a hairpin, I'd be even more pissed.

Quote from Davo :

Now we have two people coming forward being the one that's lapping this guy. Hmmm.

Not really.
One of them said he was the race leader and the other said he was at up to 2nd or 3rd place.

Anyway it might have happened in more than one race too.

The other guy is Lightsaver and posted a few minutes before. No mention of using BLUE FLAG MOVE OVER.

Quote from Hankstar :

If it's evilgeek, Phlos or senna 87, take care to do it quickly or prepare to eat wall

how am i a geek? tosser

somebody was just sayin the truth and u start callin those "tossers" again?

no comment -.-

Quote from Lightsaver :

What a hell of a luck i see this thread.

I was this guy coming from behind to overtake u! try to tell the whole story when u want to blame one.

I was the race leader having a close race with the guy behind me. u, my friend, were more then 2 laps behind me with noone infront of u who you could have raced.

so i was closing u fast on start streight heading T1. just as i wanted to pass u in the inside of the corner u managed to get in my way and blocked me the first time.

i stood behind you to get the draft for passing u on the way to the 2 hairpins. i was going to pass u just as we reached the streight before the 2 hairpins when u decided to head in my direction to block me a second time. i had to make a decision go on the grass ruining my race or defending my line which u were heading for when i was beside u.

so u didnt only block me, u wrecked my and your car aswell.
by the way there was showing up one "blue flag" massage when u blocked me the first time in the T1 corner coming from an admin.


what the hell make u think u have to fight when u are beeing lapped? i dont get it into my head, sorry...

light saver what is your racer name?

are you a regular on [cd]
it seams the same thing has happend to you!!??!!
although it happend for me just as i was turning left for T2 and not on the straight joining T1 to T2

here is the last time i was on CD

Quote :

Last race information: (22:47-10 Dec '06)
Host: [CD] ConeDodgersRacing1
Position: 6th out of 19, doing 10 laps
Time / best lap: 18:17.150 / 1:43.350 (10)
Track and car: AS national, FXR

this i belive was 1/2 races after the "incident"

it maybe so that the lighsaver one happened after this? i was there when ghostryder left
sounds like he is a regular crash TBH, or maybe he should practice a little offline with the AI before joining competitive online races?

so as regarding this chap being sick of people "spamming" "blue flag", maybe this is because he fails to take any attention to the actual blue flags, and he is pissing everybody off with his n00b attitude?

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

how am i a geek? tosser

They were actually talking about a guy named evilgeek. Way to misread and jump to conclusions.

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a test about what people would do in certain blue flag situations and why. So here is a common one: You are racing at AS national with the FZR in a 10 laps race. You get a blue flag in a staright and a turn where you also have to break is coming soon(about 300 meters to go). Let this turn be the first one. The car that wants to overtake you is 6 meters behind and has no time for getting into your slipstream, and pass you in the straight. What would you do?

If i were in such a sitiuation i probably joined the race later, or had an absolultly crap race, so my race is ruined anyway. I would move to the right and break, much before the corner, so that the person behind me knew in time that he can break in the outside and take the normal line in the turn, touching the inside of the turn too. This way i know that i won't cause him any time loss, which is important, since he is still in race, and short races are usually very close. And i am happy that although my race is ruined i hadn't made others' race worse. Fortunatly on Conedodger servers this is the common way of driving when you get a blue flag that is one reason i like driving there.

There are people here whose posts suggest that they would would force the car behind to take other line then the ideal one, causing him time loss. I think this is selfish. But i would love to hear their opinon why would they do so if they would.

when u get a blue flag and u leave the ideal line u do cause more problems than keeping the line. a lot of noobs do that and it's so dangeres. the driver who is overtaking is good enough to handle the situation right with changing line. when u catch up to a "blue flag guy" you prepare yourself to overtake him, when he now changes line and this maybe just in front of you, it will spoil more when anything else.

BTW I watched yesterday a race on the CD server and there was a driver from the CD team spamming way behind the car "BLUE FLAG"

Quote from robgo :

Maybe it would be a good idea to make a test about what people would do in certain blue flag situations and why. So here is a common one: You are racing at AS national with the FZR in a 10 laps race. You get a blue flag in a staright and a turn where you also have to break is coming soon. Let this turn be the first one. The car that wants to overtake you is 6 meters behind. What do you do?

If i were in such a sitiuation i probably joined the race later, or had an absolultly crap race, so my race is ruined anyway. I would move to the right and break, much before the corner, so that the person behind me knew in time that he can break in the outside and take the normal line in the turn, touching the inside of the turn too. This way i know that i won't cause him any time loss, which is important, since he is still in race, and short races are usually very close. And i am happy that although my race is ruined i hadn't made others' race worse. Fortunatly on Conedodger servers this is the common way of driving when you get a blue flag that is one reason i like driving there.

There are people here whose posts suggest that they would would force the car behind to take other line then the ideal one, causing him time loss. I think this is selfish. But i would love to hear their opinon why would they do so if they would.

LOL... I wouldn't even be there... I've looked in on a few FZR/ASnational races and everyone seems to be doing 1.41.XX laps. I can do consistent 1.45.XX, but that would still mean there aren't even any backmarkers I could mix it with!

But, whatever... I hope the software would blueflag before some missile was six metres away from my backside.... and I would probably do pretty much exactly what you suggest anyway - though I'm not sure.... if he was only six metres away, I might wait until I've completed the turn....

tomylee>
As i described the situation, the car behind is 6 meters away from you, and the turn is quite close. That's why the car behind does not want to get into your slipstream. I am usually the one who has to lap others and i am happy if someone lets me pass like i described in my previcious post. Of course when the turn is far away, you have a blue flag, and the guy behind you is in your slipstream don't break, because he wants to get extra speed behind you.

nihil>
6 meters is not a big distance, especially in that fast corner, where you have to count with much dirt air and especially if you can do only 1.45.x.