The online racing simulator
Modding car shapes – where is the logic
Since this is sort of a sensitive subject let me start by stating that:
I like LFS just as it is. Other sims have real cars and tracks which is really nice. LFS doesn’t but it has other features that makes it great too. I don´t think any one sim is ever going to be perfect, and specially not for everyone. Every game/sim has strong points and weak points. Use the one you like or buy them all.
Mods can be a good thing or a bad thing, I´m not getting into that though.

Any decision the developers of LFS make is ok by me since it is their game anyway and it is up to them to decide how it should or should not be used by the people they sell the licenses to.

Having said that I really don´t get the logic of not being able to chance car shapes.
You can change all the specs with Tweak or Makanic, making a FXO have the same specs of a real car, a street car or any car for that mater. You can even make the FXO (or any other LFS car) into a sort of monster with absurd specs, undriveble, if you so decide. You can exchange those specs with people in this forum. Of course you can not use this beast on line but still that is not what LFS was meant to be. So in a way you are messing with some core values in LFS.
But, that is ok and legal. People talk about it freely here.
Now if I had the knowledge to put the shape of a car, not a real car even, but a shape that I made, in the FXO that would be illegal. Even if I kept all the specs of the FXO. Notice that there is no copyright problem here, I create a shape in say 3DSMax. Even if I don’t use it on line the is a taboo, illegal even to talk about.
Why the prejudice against shapes and not numbers? Either both should be illegal or both legal. I just don´t get the logic.
If there had never been programs like LFS Tweak, chances are it would be "illegal" also, however power boosting apps have been about since the really early stages, so they're kinda tolerated, but certainly not supported.
#3 - 50-3
Quote from webwing :Since this is sort of a sensitive subject let me start by stating that:
I like LFS just as it is. Other sims have real cars and tracks which is really nice. LFS doesn’t but it has other features that makes it great too. I don´t think any one sim is ever going to be perfect, and specially not for everyone. Every game/sim has strong points and weak points. Use the one you like or buy them all.
Mods can be a good thing or a bad thing, I´m not getting into that though.

There are real cars/vichels:
MRT5(MRT) built by the McGill Racing Team to compete in the Formula SAE championship

Raceabout(RAC) built by Finnish university students

A recreation of a BMW Sauber F1 car from the 2006 season, with a 720 hp V8
#4 - Gunn
Tweak and Mekanic are not supported, as Bob said they are just tolerated and there is no certainty that they always will be. Many people do not use these programs at all anyway.

Modding can sure attract people but the devs aren't worried about attracting the hoards, LFS has always had a strong following which grows every day and one reason why it is attractive is because people like the way it is being developed.

Looking at mods for other racing sims/games there is very little to get excited about. The truly worthwhile mods have usually taken a long time (sometimes years) to be completed and unfortunately the majority of public content is very mediocre, and that's being kind. I can understand that people would be very keen to try their hand at modding cars and tracks, modelling has a wide appeal these days and many are quite adept at it. Still, results are varied and a lot of people have got their ambitions mixed up with their capabilities. The number of hideous models and mods that exist for other sims is scary. The sheer number of custom models that would flood a community like ours would dilute a lot of LFS' appeal and character even if a percentage of custom stuff was of good quality.

Commercial giants crushing LFS? I doubt it. The LFS devs have made a point of going it alone and turning their back on the big gaming developers and the benefits to the sim racer are obvious. LFS is not compromised by commercial deadlines or dumbed-down physics to please the masses. Our devs are not in it for a greedy haul, rather they aim to make a race sim as it should be made, without interference from executives who wouldn't even know what a simulator was.

Our devs are not against modding of this type (3D cars and tracks), but such modding does not fit in with the current line of development. LFS is not even complete yet and things will change before it is finished. Some of the things which are likely to change include the way that mapping is handled and even some of the models themselves. If 3D modding is ever going to be allowed for LFS it is unlikely to occur until LFS is at it's final stages and all of the pieces are in place. Even so, LFS does not need modding of this type to survive or attract sim racers, the past four years have proven that.

There are two examples of modding in racing games/sims that are often brought up in these discussions: rFactor and GPL. In the case of GPL we know that an old horse has been given new energy by some very well-made mods but let's put that in context; GPL is very old, was very outdated and its development is not ongoing, it has essentially been abandonded in a development sense. The developers of GPL have more or less allowed modding to run its own course now.
rFactor is a game which from the start was about modding, that is its main feature, certainly not its physics or status as a simulator. And it is a perfect example of what not to do with LFS. They are two different animals. The amount of poor quality modded content has turned a potentially tasty meal into a veritable food fight. Yes, people have a lot of fun modding it, but as an online race simulator it falls marvellously short of expectations.

It is easy to understand how heavy modding could give LFS more appeal to the masses and one day it might even prolong the life of the sim as has occured in the GPL example, but the downside is also obvious and LFS doesn't need this type of appeal to continue growing. Nor are the LFS devs greedy for market share. GPL has achieved a cult status amongst die-hard sim racers over many years, LFS has more or less had a cult following from its very conception and one of the reasons why it has is due to the developers' philosophy. Modding or not, we know LFS represents a revolution in racing simulators and so far it is the only sim to not take its eyes of the goal or be swayed by market forces and big business. There's a valuable message in all of that.
Wow Gunn, anything I was playing on saying was said somewhere in that post plus a lot more . This definitely gave me a different view on the way LFS is being developed
Gunn

That is very true and a great post
Gunn,

I agree with everything you said.
My point was why the bias against the shapes. If you can mess with the specs as much as you want, and freely distribute programs to do so here in the official forum, why cant you tolerate the same for the shapes? Apparently they have been around for too long so it would be a bit traumatic to ban them now! I get it.

Whenever anyone mentions the good or the bad of MODs its always related to the online experience. MODing a sim for use offline only would not have a bad impact in my point of view. How to restrict that, well... that is another story. But if you can restrict the spec tweaks then the shapes wouldn't be a problem.

Like I said I agree with your opinions about the online moding for LFS and after reading your post there is not much else to be added about this subject. I specially like the fact that you did not try to put down rFactor to support your case. They are both very successful in what they were set out to be. And again I don't think there will ever be a sim/game that will be all things to all people. For me LFS has been the most enjoyable sim I ever played and the fact that it is a work in progress makes it even nicer - there is always something to look forward to.

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG