Quote from obsolete_power :

Yep, typical....It is like a new corporation that is starting out, they give free things, the act all loyal and everything, they are constantly offering support and are more than willing to help and asnwer EVERY question. Then they start making some money and it all goes to shit....They become arrogant and no longer value their customers. Same thing happened to Sony, AMD etc and it looks like the same thing is happening to them. They lose their value. With the two examples above (Sony and AMD) it is like the customers don't exist anymore. They expect people to pay money for any crap they release but do not care what the customer wants because they know he will pay. Then when something expensive doesn't sell, they get pissed and angry and call their customers ingrates...Hopefully, LFS won't become like that but they are starting to show signs of it...

To compare a 3 man development team to companies such as Sony and AMD is, well...illepall

A Sony or AMD does gradually lose touch with the customer just due to their sheer size and rate of growth. With something like LFS, the rate of updates is bound to slow as things become more developed and the amount of time to make a change increases drastically. In the beginning, because there is very little defined, a few days work and you may have a suspension deformation model. However, 3-4 years down the road and those few days of work aren't even enough to make a small change in the damping response of that suspension model...

Quote from Victor :

merged two threads that were the same topic.

Thanks Victor. That was a honest merge. That is why I like you guys, you keep it real.

Quote from luftrofl :

Hello, it seems you're an idiot/are not living in reality. Let me explain to you how things work for the non-idiotic/those of us in reality.

1) You don't pay for updates. You paid to unlock the full version, not get continual updates. Welcome to the world of playing in-progress games, be thankful there isn't a monthly charge.

2) LFS didn't lose you as a customer. You bought the game and are forever a customer. It's not like you continually pay to use it. If anything, they save money because you're not using up bandwith. One less person buying the next version won't make an impact on LFS.

3) You say you want something, but don't say what. Would you want the developers to read your mind and magically give you what you want? "something MAJOR" is far from specific.

4) The graphics don't make the game, maybe you should just go race IRL if you're so worried about great graphics.

5) Nobody cares about you. You don't make a difference. You won't be missed. Deal.

Dude, now that you are done trying to act like you know me, let me tell you something!

1) If you put S1, S2 and S3 together it will all equal a full release of let's say Need For Speed or any other game that is not "a progress-game as you say it" Updates won't be forever, the devs stated that at the beginning that there are no plans to continue content updates past S3 nor does it guarantee that it will reach the S3 stage. This game has been basically cut out into three parts. S1 basic cars plus tracks plus basic physics, S2 more cars plus tracks and updated physics, S3 will probably be weather updates and maybe more physics updates and tracks....if it ever gets there. Monthly charge? For what? NONE of the games released (apart from MMOs) charge monthly because there just isn't enough content to charge for nor is there that much bandwidth used. Since LFS is a client sided game and pretty much the only bandwith used is to keep track of online servers on the master server. The game multiplayer is client based also!

2) I am sure I know that it won't make a difference what I say or not and the fact that it won't affect development and that wasn't my intent, obviously you missed that. Again, the game barely uses any of the developers' bandwidth. That statement you made was purely for personal attacks and I thought you considered yoursef to be the "intelligent" one here. Now come on, mommy and daddy taught you better than that...

3) I have posted on the Suggestion and PATCH TEST threads before and nothing was done of what I wanted. Saying something, as you say in the "real world" won't get you very far. It isn't like the devs are taking requests but for the sake of this discussion I will say what I want: Frequent content updates and I want the feeling of dry to be gone from the game!

4) The graphics DO make the game if you want to have an experience. If all you are interested in is to have the best scores then this game is perfect for you!

5) There are lots of people that care about me. I would tell you about it but now I am afraid of you attacking me for not only using up from precious bandwidth but also would take up quite a huge chunk of this page. This is beside the point though and I don't see what this has to do with live for speed...Oh, you meant that the developers don't care about me...Okay, this is most probably true and why should they? I was never expecting them to PERSONALLY care about me. If Microsoft releases new versions of windows every 5 years that are fresh and new, let's say, does this mean they have to care about you or me or the next person? No, they should, however, care about the customer because, after all, he is the one that makes any company what it is...

Quote from (-Mark-) :

So..in the first post it talks about them having lifes and they should stop them just to work on a game... kinda selfish dont you think.. YOU want them to give up THEIR lifes just so you can play a completed game. And you also say that you dont give a 'turd' about their lifes and families, IIRC Scawen has a child, but you want him to give that all up so he can complete the game... And what did you expect when you payed for the game.. for it to be completed in a couple of months?

Also your comparing a game made by a company, with a game programed by 1..And where else do you see the developers actually talking to the game players and asking them about it, taking their points of view and putting most of them into the game..


*Rant over* (i hope)

OMG, im seriously done. That is not what we meant. We are just saying, hungry is not like it use to be and if you can't understand it, don't comment on something you have no idea about, business; marketing;development;etc If you would like to discuss that, I'm more than welcome you to it.

I have been a member of this community for a short time now, but I have never heard so much BULLOCKS in my life! The Devs (or as I prefer to call them, 'the 3') are probably sat there now, reading your sad little posts thinking 'he'll be back!'

Test drive is NOT a sim, it's another arcade racer, like Project Gotham. So if you can't handle realistic physics and like to crash at 150mph and lightly dent your front fender, then bye, you will not be missed!:haha::dunce:

Quote from VipeNess :

Thanks Victor. That was a honest merge. That is why I like you guys, you keep it real.

Quote from obsolete_power :

Yep, typical....It is like a new corporation that is starting out, they give free things, the act all loyal and everything, they are constantly offering support and are more than willing to help and asnwer EVERY question. Then they start making some money and it all goes to shit....They become arrogant and no longer value their customers.

So you tell him he keeps it real, yet your team mate stated the above, as the HK opinion.. and that is basically the definition of selling out, as in NOT keeping it real..

so which is it?

Haha, give up their lives...another person missing the point! Let's say you have a job, 9-6, and you tell your fellow workers one day that you only want to work from 9 to 12 everyday because you have a life and a family how would that look? Everyone has a life, many of us have families and, yes, WE NEED TO FEED THEM and purchase clothes for them, have a roof over their heads, satisfy their wants and needs, we don't run our jobs around our lives, unfortunately, we live our lives around the work schedule, most of us. Please, stop taking things I am posting out of context and turning them around on me, it only adds on to the discussion and you are decreasing the remaining amount of scrolls our mice were rated for!

Quote from obsolete_power :

Sounds and graphics are what make the real life experience. Yes LFS has great physics but I need more than that to truly feel like I am part of the real racing experience.
You are commenting on Test Drive Unlimited, well wait until it is officially released and you will see the 1600 miles of drivable roads and the exquisite graphics + sounds, the way the game is built and the content. I cannot say too much because of Atari's NDA but you haven't seend nothing yet!

ROFL, i think you bought the wrong game then. Has LFS ever been the best in graphics or sound or the amount af driveable roads? i doubt it... Most people who have bought it are interested in phisics, graphics is nowhere near as important. Sound is responsive that's the most important thing about sound in a simulator. If you are interested in arcadish games, then bye...

Quote from DFS_MadFred :

So you tell him he keeps it real, yet your team mate stated the above, as the HK opinion.. and that is basically the definition of selling out, as in NOT keeping it real..

so which is it?

It isn't an HK opinion, smart one! It is the opinion of an idividual that happens to be part of the team! I don't believe either of us said anything about an "HK opinion."

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Hence proof why I moved on from the HK team also. I swear that for a while that all we played was FSX!!. AFAIK Flight Sim is != Car Racing Simulator.

You were never at practices man, some you were some times you weren't. All you wanted was high scores for yourself man. But that is ok. You had other goals. Sad to see you go, I know money was a problem, but it's ok with us. Glad you did join a team you were interested in and wanted to go to because of that other team breaking up.

Quote from obsolete_power :

It isn't an HK opinion, smart one! It is the opinion of an idividual that happens to be part of the team! I don't believe either of us said anything about an "HK opinion."

Ahhh....the old "good cop, bad cop" routine......nice one, bet you came up with this little plan between you

Blah blah blah, I want this, blah blah blah, I don't care, blah blah blah, it's not fair, blah blah blah, I will leave if I my demands aren't met, blah blah blah they should do this or that, blah blah blah, other games are better...

If you sir are a representitive of a "professional racing community" you have a very long way to go before succeeding in convincing anyone else of that achievement. What a rediculous attitude to take, why would anyone care what your opinion is if you so blantantly can't give a flying **** what anyone else's is either? The more you wind yourself up the more rediculous you become.
Constructive criticism is always welcomed here, but you haven't offered any. A member of a "professional racing community" surely would not propagate such an immature rant if they wanted to be taken at all seriously. You're just coming across as a blow-hard who does not understand the task at hand. If you have been around for so long then you shouldn't be surprised or shocked at the method of development, so I'm guessing you aren't really surprised or shocked at all. If you've kept in touch with the test patch progress then you know very well that Scawen works hard, so why act like this?
If you want to make claims about being a part of anything professional you had better weed your own garden before you go digging up everyone else's.

I would have been willing to consider your opinion but you seem to be having trouble communicating in a reasonable manner. Whatever it is you really want, you aren't helping yourself to get it.

Quote from robgo :

ROFL, i think you buyed the wrong game then. Has LFS ever been the best in graphics or sound or the amount af driveable roads? i doubt it... Most people who have bought it are interested in phisics, graphics is nowhere near as important. Sound is responsive that's the most important thing about sound in a simulator. If you are interested in arcadish games, then bye...

It was dude, it was....but WAS is the key word. When I first played the initial LFS release, I was amazed at how real it felt back then.

Obsolete_power, stop embarassing yourself. "Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie", that's all I hear. Some of us are here for the journey. And guess what, coding realistic phyiscs (something that LFS is probably at the top of in the currently available batch of sims) takes a heck of a lot of time.

You know what? Its December. Go out, get together with your friends (that's assuming you have some) and stop moaning on a forum like a 6 year old because you're impatient.

Quote from obsolete_power :

It isn't an HK opinion, smart one! It is the opinion of an idividual that happens to be part of the team! I don't believe either of us said anything about an "HK opinion."

If you put your opinion on a public forum with a team logo and team advertising and a team tag then you speak as a team member and therefor your opinion will reflect upon the team as a whole..

been in the team-based online gaming long? smart one!

danowat is right.. nice team work.. rofl

Quote from obsolete_power :

It was dude, it was....but WAS is the key word. When I first played the initial LFS release, I was amazed at how real it felt back then.

Are you for real? illepall, LFS WAS realistic "back then", and is STILL realistic now, nothing has changed except we now have more content, I can't really understand what the hell you are throwing your toys out of your pram for

Quote from axus :

You know what? Its December. Go out, get together with your friends (that's assuming you have some) and stop moaning on a forum like a 6 year old because you're impatient.

Thanks axus, I have been watching this topic and thinking to myself, why don’t these guys stop complaining and just enjoy what S2 is at this moment. I enjoy every sec of it and I don’t even care about future updates, it’s still the best sim I have played and will play. And ya give the devs a break, it all takes time.

Quote from Gunn :

Blah blah blah, I want this, blah blah blah, I don't care, blah blah blah, it's not fair, blah blah blah, I will leave if I my demands aren't met, blah blah blah they should do this or that, blah blah blah, other games are better...

If you sir are a representitive of a "professional racing community" you have a very long way to go before succeeding in convincing anyone else of that achievement. What a rediculous attitude to take, why would anyone care what your opinion is if you so blantantly can't give a flying **** what anyone else's is either? The more you wind yourself up the more rediculous you become.
Constructive criticism is always welcomed here, but you haven't offered any. A member of a "professional racing community" surely would not propagate such an immature rant if they wanted to be taken at all seriously. You're just coming across as a blow-hard who does not understand the task at hand. If you have been around for so long then you shouldn't be surprised or shocked at the method of development, so I'm guessing you aren't really surprised or shocked at all. If you've kept in touch with the test patch progress then you know very well that Scawen works hard, so why act like this?
If you want to make claims about being a part of anything professional you had better weed your own garden before you go digging up everyone else's.

I would have been willing to consider your opinion but you seem to be having trouble communicating in a reasonable manner. Whatever it is you really want, you aren't helping yourself to get it.

Well to put it in simple terms, I am merely speaking at a level that is suitable for the people that posted on this thread. It started out as me expressing my opinion on the game and the developers and I have gotten nothing but personal attacks because some people here feel a need to defend the game and developers through personal attacks.

I will say this, if it takes a flame war to bring together a community; that's just awesome. I'm glad that everyone posting is more licensed members than demo'rs.

We have said what we wanted to say. DONE.

Quote from obsolete_power :

Dude, now that you are done trying to act like you know me, let me tell you something!

1) If you put S1, S2 and S3 together it will all equal a full release of let's say Need For Speed or any other game that is not "a progress-game as you say it" Updates won't be forever, the devs stated that at the beginning that there are no plans to continue content updates past S3 nor does it guarantee that it will reach the S3 stage. This game has been basically cut out into three parts. S1 basic cars plus tracks plus basic physics, S2 more cars plus tracks and updated physics, S3 will probably be weather updates and maybe more physics updates and tracks....if it ever gets there. Monthly charge? For what? NONE of the games released (apart from MMOs) charge monthly because there just isn't enough content to charge for nor is there that much bandwidth used. Since LFS is a client sided game and pretty much the only bandwith used is to keep track of online servers on the master server. The game multiplayer is client based also!

2) I am sure I know that it won't make a difference what I say or not and the fact that it won't affect development and that wasn't my intent, obviously you missed that. Again, the game barely uses any of the developers' bandwidth. That statement you made was purely for personal attacks and I thought you considered yoursef to be the "intelligent" one here. Now come on, mommy and daddy taught you better than that...

3) I have posted on the Suggestion and PATCH TEST threads before and nothing was done of what I wanted. Saying something, as you say in the "real world" won't get you very far. It isn't like the devs are taking requests but for the sake of this discussion I will say what I want: Frequent content updates and I want the feeling of dry to be gone from the game!

4) The graphics DO make the game if you want to have an experience. If all you are interested in is to have the best scores then this game is perfect for you!

5) There are lots of people that care about me. I would tell you about it but now I am afraid of you attacking me for not only using up from precious bandwidth but also would take up quite a huge chunk of this page. This is beside the point though and I don't see what this has to do with live for speed...Oh, you meant that the developers don't care about me...Okay, this is most probably true and why should they? I was never expecting them to PERSONALLY care about me. If Microsoft releases new versions of windows every 5 years that are fresh and new, let's say, does this mean they have to care about you or me or the next person? No, they should, however, care about the customer because, after all, he is the one that makes any company what it is...

1) You bought the game knowing it wasn't done. Don't cry over spilled milk, especially if you did it on purpose.

2) I was letting you know that I think you are incredibly stupid. Great job in figuring that one out.

3) Just because you let others know about your ideas does not mean that your ideas are good.

4) No, the graphics don't make the game. They make it better.

5) Again, you are mistaken. Let me clarify incase you thought I meant nobody at all- nobody would feel the effect of you leaving, and so would not care.

Why are you still hanging around? E-thug much?

Quote from Splint :

Thanks axus, I have been watching this topic and thinking to myself, why don’t these guys stop complaining and just enjoy what S2 is at this moment. I enjoy every sec of it and I don’t even care about future updates, it’s still the best sim I have played and will play. And ya give the devs a break, it all takes time.

Well I should be sorry that I am not like you. Again, you have your opinion and I have mine, I respect the opinions of you all by not attacking them (I am however combatting the attacks). I see things differently and you know what? I do not give a rat's ass what you or any of the other immature people.

Quote from obsolete_power :

Well I should be sorry that I am not like you. Again, you have your opinion and I have mine, I respect the opinions of you all by not attacking them (I am however combatting the attacks). I see things differently and you know what? I do not give a rat's ass what you or any of the other immature people.

you just managed to say you respect others and not attack them aswell as saying you don't give a **** and calling others immature.. you're a genius!

If you want to be taken serious, you should stop contradicting yourself I reckon

Quote from luftrofl :

1) You bought the game knowing it wasn't done. Don't cry over spilled milk, especially if you did it on purpose.

2) I was letting you know that I think you are incredibly stupid. Great job in figuring that one out.

3) Just because you let others know about your ideas does not mean that your ideas are good.

4) No, the graphics don't make the game. They make it better.

5) Again, you are mistaken. Let me clarify incase you thought I meant nobody at all- nobody would feel the effect of you leaving, and so would not care.

Why are you still hanging around? E-thug much?

Very good, lad. You have managed to come up with yet another "amazing" post. The fact that you think I am stupid gives you no advantage over me whatsoever It just proves my point...I state my opinion and you call me stupid for it, great. Your simple-mindedness really highlights your immaturity. Again, I am not the one with the personal attacks, chap. I didn't ask for your opinion on my intelligence, I never asked for anything at all.

Quote from obsolete_power :

I do not give a rat's ass what you or any of the other immature people.

So why don’t you just stop replying and stop defending yourself. Every time you reply the topic just gets more out of hand. The money that you used to pay for an LFS licence is history. Just go home and enjoy what you have, some can’t afford and S2 licence.

Quote from DFS_MadFred :

you just managed to say you respect others and not attack them aswell as saying you don't give a **** and calling others immature.. you're a genius!

If you want to be taken serious, you should stop contradicting yourself I reckon

Okay, when I said I don't give a **** and calling them immature was not about their opinions of what I said. They were directed to the attacks coming from them directed at me. This stopped being about my opinion a long time ago, probably about half-way through the first page. Since then it's been nothing but me being stupid, an idiot or any of the other things I have just seen. This just shows exactly the kind of community that you guys helped create!