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Cawwa:
I called it as i saw it, 3 drivers making stupid decisions, 1 (the first) which from what gather was probably due to pressure from the 2nd placed GT1 car and 3rd just a few sec behind him also, where the driver didnt brake early enough and ended up punting our rear and spinning us. The 2nd was just about as stupid and selfish act as you can get, just driving through someone as if they werent there because your in a bigger car and everyone should move over the instance your visable in the mirror. The 3rd... i havent got a clue what he thought he was doing, rather than waiting to get round the 2nd split fast corner or going around the outside he decided to just punt punt punt at the backend pushing us out wide, adding excess heat to our tyres and then f*cking off down the straight when he'd finished d*cking about with our car!
1st incident i can kinda understand, it was more pressure and a misjudgement than anything, the other 2 were nothing more than selfish driving by people deciding they own the road and they can do what they want, go where they want and everyone else can get stuffed.

There wasnt any disrespect shown to the organiser until he chose to create new rules, which still dont exist, and were it applicable he was quite happy to allow it until after the race. He also chose to ignore other rules in this series, like only 1 team per class while Flying Finns have 2 int GT2 class. These rules are being bent when it suits and then being reinforced when it suits too. Scoop knew BawBags status in MoE, and even though the rulebook says NOTHING about MoE drivers competing in GT2 class, he's told he's braking the rules and even has it suggested he goes and reads the rules in future, these very rules that arent rules, just suggestions which arent always inforced it would seems. So yeah, we're now questioning the organisational aspects of this series as they're very irratic, non-existant, and also capable of discovering ways to ban you which weren't during, arent currently, and never have been rules for this race.

So sh*tting on the organiser isnt quite how i see it, bullsh*t rules were invented and existing ones ignored and thats when we started calling it as it was. When half a dozen rules are completely ignored and your punished by one that doesnt exist, maybe then you can comment on how that feels, personally im not so impressed. Yet apparently were the ones sh*tting on the organisers?


Incidently, im being told BB's wheel is no longer working, doesnt power up properly. He said something didnt feel right with it after wrestling the car back to the pit lane to repair the damage done by P. Jones's driving when he shunted us straight into a wall. It sounded like he was cutting down a forest over teamspeak when he was driving down the last back-straight. Hopefully whatever is up with it is fixable and possibly no more than a wire that got pulled and has since come off.
I'm very pleased that Team Mercury is so keen to follow the rules and not bend them as it suites them. Specialy when I look at the Battle of The Teams race this weekend. Bawbag didn't join during the practise sesion and still drove the qualification, took the pole and was not moved to the back of the field. This is against the rules in the BOTT races. Obvisly the admins did a mistake, but you guys should have pointed that out yourselves uh? At least when I read the statement above.

What penalty do you think he should get?
I just pointed out some of the things I reacted to from you. If you don't care and drive your line, just do it.

Nothing more to say in this matter.
Apart from the fact that this has nothing to do with BOTT, I came in long before the practice session was due to start and requested to miss the practice sessions and some of the qualifying if need be because I had to come and do the qual for this event!

If you would read what he says you would realise, he isn't saying that we want every rule to be followed exactly, he says he wants that OR every team to be given the same treatment if they have to break one of these rules.
I've yet to see this rule which you were so desperate to inforce during the pre-race break. I informed Arrow that BB would be doing this and he didnt object or say it would be against the rules, his actual response was 'lmao' so yet again im going to have to go by the fact that im assuming someone joking about the incident means they've got no problem on it. Still, there are no rules clearly stated for BOTT which isnt particularly helpful, and i cant find anything saying 'you must be there from start to finish or you start from the back' or anything to that effect. You brought it up numerous times in the server, moaning in there is acceptable, just not afterwards i guess, and they chose to carry things on rather than use this supposed rule your refering to.



Anyway, Mercury have pulled out of this series, we asked for either rules be followed to the letter whenever possible or for leaniance to be given equally to all teams. To the letter was the decision made, so we've been DQ'd from that race which we accept, our drive was outside the rules, and if they are being followed then there isnt anything to dispute on this issue.
Im expecting double standards for Flying Finn Racing #2 as they're illegaly fielding a 2nd car in the GT2 class, and as exceptions arent being made they've wasted their time for Rnd 3&4, but as i say, i doubt that will happen because exceptions can be made.

Eitherway, its the poor standard of driving by a few in this series and the fact that there isnt anything to prevent this from happening every single race which is why we're pulling out, and ive spoke to scoop and pointed this out, until some form of assurance can be given that the people competing are capable and wont drive wrecklessly, then we dont wish to complete because those incidents completely ruin any pleasure there is to taking part. From 50sec behind the lead car to about 6sec, and then have some idiot not wait 2 corners and instead make a crazy dive the first chance he's anywhere near us and ruin our race... im not interested in wasting my time or my teammates time when this is a possibility. Those drivers shouldnt be there, i can put in faster laps in the car than the 3 in #44 and i wouldnt dream of stepping foot in that car for a race because i know i cant guarantee full control over my car. Its about time others had the same responsible attitude towards others on the track, rather than using events as a practicing ground to learn to drive with other cars. Its common decency and racing etiquette, and i know its hard to judge these things without putting people in there and seeing how they go, but something needs to be in place to ensure races arent spoiled while these people are being judged on whether or not they are or arent suitable for the series.


Cawwa, theres a difference between making yourself an obstical and refusing to allow a leading car through, and having someone decide because they're in a bigger, faster car they'll make a lunge the first chance they get on a dangerous corner. They were over a minute behind and ahead of the other GT1 cars, they had a long straight just 2 corners ahead, and they chose to make a distant dive down the inside rather than wait for a suitable time for the pass. Its inexperienced driving and one which cost them nothing in the 3hr race itself, and cost us 1min + pit repairs when we were just seconds behind the GT2 class leader. If you cant see that having people making stupid irresponsible actions like these isnt bad for the series then your clearly beyond all help.
Quote from PaulC2K :Incidently, im being told BB's wheel is no longer working, doesnt power up properly. He said something didnt feel right with it after wrestling the car back to the pit lane to repair the damage done by P. Jones's driving when he shunted us straight into a wall. It sounded like he was cutting down a forest over teamspeak when he was driving down the last back-straight. Hopefully whatever is up with it is fixable and possibly no more than a wire that got pulled and has since come off.

Are you implying that because of the hit BB's hardware is damaged?
lol, no, it was more the wrestling of the car to get it going in a straight line it would seem. Hopefully its no more than a lead which was pulled somehow and now its just popped off the connector. Could be completely co-incidental too, but having heard BB wrestling with the wheel trying to get the car to the pitlane pretty loud on over TS i'd say chances are it was picked up in that episode. So im fairly sure whether this was the cause or not, having some selfish muppet who cant drive their chosen car launch yours into the wall and make it near undrivable certainly wont have helped matters!
Quote from PaulC2K :...selfish muppet who cant drive their chosen car launch...

Ya, see that's why people get uspet with you guys
got a better way to describe someone who doesnt care about the other person being in a corner and just throws there own car into the turn ramming the other car out of the way and driving on without a care in the world?

ya see, thats why 'us guys' get upset with 'people'.

When 'people' cant drive and decide that a 3hr endurance race is a great time to learn, 'us guys' who can drive get a little annoyed because 'people' drive through 'us guys' spoiling any chance we have of having a decent race while those 'people' are miles away from anyone, and make stupid and selfish decisions when they come to pass others.
You dont see this in real life, when someone comes to lap a car they wait for a suitable time to pass and then make their move, they dont ram someone out of the way and then moan because someone refers to their actions as moronic, stupid and selfish.
hmmm, ya I guess I can see your point. Hey BTW how many sponsorship dollars ya figure you guys lost?
Quote from KSheppard :hmmm, ya I guess I can see your point. Hey BTW how many sponsorship dollars ya figure you guys lost?

We have no sponsors
Please, guys, keep it civilized. We are aware that you want to raise issues, but namecalling is not the way to do that.

PaulC2K: I think you have gotten your point across, so lay off the heat a bit, will you?
PaulC2K; i think you made your point and I parly agree with you. For now I would like to suggest, especially to you, to chill out and stop responding in an insulting, none constructive manner. I can understand you're upset, but to address your fellow racers as 'muppets' makes no good to the main goal: how to improve LFS GT.

You seem to forget LFS GT is a stepping stone to MoE - one your team has taken in a positive way. But it also means that in LFS GT there is a clinch between more experienced drivers and inexperienced drivers (haven't we all been inexperienced?).

It is up to the organization to sort out to deal with that given fact, and you can help, not by posting your frustration in a none constructive manner, but by providing points for improvement and suggestions.
I'm from Flying Finn 2 - our annoucment for team 2 was quite early, I did not see any complaints at the time, why pick on us now? Just because you're upset with rules going shite for you, what has that got to do with us at FF team? Anyway, if you want a season with no teams, then you bunch of arguing dicks are going the right way about it. The race is over now, if you can't grow up in time for the next one, free up some space for some teams that can!
Fair enough, its hardly pleasant terminology though IMO its appropriate to my feelings of their chosen actions when put into situations which require some caution and they failed to take any caution.

As i said to Scoop over MSN earlier today, the biggest problem with league is in allowing people into the race in the series as a trial to see if they're suitable competitors in there. I know i cant drive the FZR well enough that i know i'll have near enough full control over the car, so i do the sensible thing, i dont compete with it. Its not because i know i wont win, f*ck knows when the last time i won an event was (probably early S1 days in OLFSL in some mid-table group) but because i know if i make a mistake its not just my race i could be spoiling. I want to be responsible on the track, that has always been my priority from the first day i started playing LFS near on 4* years ago, pick things up and learn as you go, and dont use the excuse of a learning curve as the reason for getting in the way or causing problems for others. Its all common decency and in LFS far too often its completely ignored and usually its the events which are the safe haven for racers to go and have a good clean scrap with other like-minded racers and occasionally get screwed over by a racing incident, you cant always avoid those, but ultimately come away with the race with a positive view of it all.
Too many people think they're ready for this sort of thing, either dont take it serious and practice beforehand or just dont have any manners and consideration for the other people out there on the track, and this p*sses me off a great deal because there are people who race fair and clean and there experience is ruined by these inexperienced people where there experience isnt the issue, its there standard of driving or attitude.

Hopefully something will be done in future seasons to try and prevent people clearly not ready to race from taking part, especially a series which has an MoE place at stake. Having a full grid currently seems to take president over the standard of the driving, if they suck then they're out, at least that is fair, however using the series as a testing ground isnt fair on the capable people competing. I know its hard, you cant have a qualification series for a qualification series for the MoE series, but some sort of credentials should be required as they are for MoE, proof of your ability to be considered for the event, otherwise the series as i first said becomes a bit of a joke where people who arent upto a suitable standard are thrown in and ruining other peoples experience.

Some sort of CV of experience should be made available if you want to have a certain grade of driver in the series, otherwise anyone gets in and this becomes peoples practice group instead of being a respectable series with a decent reward at the end.

Im giving this as an opinion on someone no longer wanting to compete in this series because of this, whether any of it is used and taken on board is your own decision, but for the sake of those still wanting to take part i hope my constructive critisism is taken on board. If things change, then maybe we will go back at some point (we need to find some non Utd supporting drivers first!!) otherwise i doubt greatly that we'd be back (no biggie i know).


F**k me, Aug 2003 is as early as the LFSW stats go, and that race was at FE Green, and i KNOW i experienced a good 12-18 months of Blackwood Pre-S1 racing. So god know how many years ago when i was a n00b.
Quote from russraine :I'm from Flying Finn 2 - our annoucment for team 2 was quite early, I did not see any complaints at the time, why pick on us now? Just because you're upset with rules going shite for you, what has that got to do with us at FF team? Anyway, if you want a season with no teams, then you bunch of arguing dicks are going the right way about it. The race is over now, if you can't grow up in time for the next one, free up some space for some teams that can!

Sarcasm Russ, look it up

Your technically breaking the rules, however you've been allowed to take part. There isnt a problem with that, however the fact that some rules are overlooked while others arent and then others are used to full effect it just seems hard to know whats going to be thrown back in your face and what isnt. There isnt a problem with you being in there, i couldnt give a hoot, im just pointing out a rule which is technically being broken however its accepted/ignored when it suits the series (ie empty slot now occupied).

So when your quite finished over-reacting...
WOW, where to begin. Man, I'm right up there with Hitler and Satan with the guys from Mercury Racing. I guess I'll start by saying I DID NOT intend to take Mooney out of the race. I DID NOT cackle with glee as I drove away.
The mistake I made was I misread his intentions. Every other GT2 car I came upon in my stint moved to the outside lane of the corner, and gave me the inside line. I was one car length off his rear bumper, and saw him go to the outside. I thought, wrongly at this point, that he was giving me the inside lane, and dipped in on basically the same line I had taken all stint. Although, contrary to what has been stated in previous posts, it was actually 10 mph SLOWER than I had been taking it before. IF I had known that it was the same car that pinched ME off a couple corners before the first split on lap 46, I would've been much more apprehensive about getting by him. But I don't drive with everyones name floating over their car, it kills the immersion factor for me.
I wish I could GUARANTEE full control over my car, but sadly, I cannot. And, I think if you're waiting for people to GUARANTEE full control over their car, you'll be a little lonely on the grid.
As for me, I will not be racing with you guys anymore. Please, keep the cheering to under 5 minutes, I do have feelings too ya know. I just know I can't be perfect, and I should not be on the track with drivers who never put a wheel wrong.
I'm going in search of a league where they maybe have some drivers who aren't perfect, but maybe aren't so judgemental either. See ya!

What hurts the most, is that I let down, and embarrassed my team mates. Please do not think less of them as racers and gentlemen due to my actions.
The only way the both of us were getting through that corner was if I braked and let you have the full road, it doesn't even matter if I gave your room or not, the line you were taking into the corner would have hit me regardless.

What some people failed to realise was that the GT2 cars don't have to move out of the way as soon as they see a GT1 car, it is the job of the overtaking car (The GT1 guys) to get past the slower (GT2 guys)

Yes it is courteous to give them room on the straights or flat out bends but considering I was in a battle for the lead i'm not going to back off or brake as soon as I see a GT1 coming up behind me, especcially when I don't have to.

Also I had a look at the "pinching" you were on about and was so shocked by what I saw I had to upload a small video to show exactly what your on about.

Btw, I know you didn't mean to do it and the point never has been that you or anyone else done stupid things on purpose, it's just that it was such a silly move under the circumstances and you should have waited untill it was safe to pass. It could easily have been your car in the wall and not mine.
Attached files
Pinching.rar - 1011.1 KB - 271 views
As a thought of a driver: I don't understand why GT1 cars want to pass GT2 cars in the corners? I mean, you have a 30km/h or so topspeed advantage and you accelerate more quickly. Why don't you just wait till after the corner (like real endurance drivers would)? Yes, you lose two or three seconds, so what? If you get a DT or S&G penalty for crashing, you lose 30+s.

Always remember that GT2 cars are running their race as well, albeid at a slower pace. So just respect them by waiting till after the corner and simply out-accelerate them.
@Hoellsen: the accident happened in the middle of sector 2, thats a section composed almost entirely by linked corners.
Its simply the decisions made under pressure, when you've got a split second to make them. You have to know instictively what the right move is to make, and that doing it has a far greater change of coming off than of something going wrong. Losing 2-3 seconds is nothing compared to losing 20-30sec when it results in a colision, damage or stop-go for causing the incident.
Its really whether or not the wrong decision is made, most will wait till its safe then move, but risking your safety as well as someone elses need to be done with some certainty, BB never left the racing line through those corners.

If you think all of this is unfair, we've been f*cked over by other peoples actions in MoE because we chose to go left instead of right to pass the car infront immediately after the green flag went, but because the lead car decided to brake test, break the speed limit and chat meant their was behaving very irratic, and when the car on the left side had to break to avoid those actions our car collided with theirs.
Apparently our actions (done before anyone elses braking) were careless and the correct move was to go right, 3 cars wide into a fast right hander!
Break testing, speeding and chatting in the opening seconds of the race was also perfectly acceptable and never once got disputed despite each surely being against the rules, but us being sucked into someone elses stupid actions wasnt.
Quote from BurnOut69 :@Hoellsen: the accident happened in the middle of sector 2, thats a section composed almost entirely by linked corners.

The collision also happened at the first chance that the car was close enough to try any kind of move, it wasnt like anyone had been held up at that point, holding back for that corner, the flat out swerve and then the fast left hander which you could have passed round the outside or waited till the straight would have cost you 2 seconds at the very most.
Deciding to make to the chosen call cost him damage, us being thrown into the wall and about 1min 30 worth of crawling to the pits with repairs. It'll also almost certainly give you guys an after race +30sec penalty.
For your race it makes no difference, you were 1min +/- any other car, for our race you took us out of any 1st/2nd place battle having spent almost 2hrs clawing back from being 50sec behind after 6 sec because of our driver having controller issues early on.
Please read your post after you've typed it and remove the foul language. Your message is only taken less serious if you continue to call names and use word otherwise censored by the forum.
"Not suited" sounds like the most debatable and wooly rule - woolier than "movable aerodynamic device". It sounds like a carte blanche for an admin to kick out teams for no reason.

As for GT1 for MOE teams (it said MOE contenders, whether that means teams currently in MOE or teams which have applied for MOE), surely the point of LFS GT is as a developmental series for MOE. In that case, surely it would be sensible to not have MOE teams at all in LFS GT?

If the definition of contenders is current MOE teams, surely it totally defeats the object of LFS GT - as a driver developmental series.

As much as I despise "Buschwhacking" (or, in this case, "GTwhacking") there is no rule against it - we need a final rule. I hate mid season rule changes, but this looks like a situation where some are needed.

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG