That would be awesome. Then we could fine-tune the timing to our needs. The only problem is that if backfiring is ever implemented, ricers might advance the intake timing, just to make the car backfire.

that kind of leads to advantage of people knowing what they are doing

cause.. even i have no idea what exactly cam timing does lol
that just gets everything to complicated and cars faster than others

i say no

Just add VTEC and were good!

copyright.. lol

no.. no type of modding will ever take place in LFS (i hope)
(and for you that like to get me at everything... i mean modding as in anything BESIDES changing textures and suspension work, gears, etc.)

even tho i hate this idea, LFS is a racing sim and cam timing is a part of racing...

im not sure i enjoy the dirt on the tyres on every server, but i am playing a sim...

Quote from XCNuse :

copyright.. lol

no.. no type of modding will ever take place in LFS (i hope)
(and for you that like to get me at everything... i mean modding as in anything BESIDES changing textures and suspension work, gears, etc.)

Why are you talking about modding?? No-one has even mentioned anything to do with modding in this thread.

I think cam-timing would not be essential and wil probably never be added but it all depends on how real we want the sim to be. If we want it to be life like then there will be thousands of things to change in our setups and I don't think that will ever happen.

I am not too sure what cam-timing does and if it has a big effect on a car's peformance but lag and fps are a big issue with what you can add to the game. We need to concentrate on the essentials first and then look at what else we can add.

..because cam timing has to do with the timing in the engine..
that is too modding

and modding leads to unfairness
and unfairness leads to tyrannistic games
and .. well.. then you land up with NFSU online lol

that is not modding that is just adjeusting the way that the engine works.

Modding would mean adding a HKS turbo or induction kit to the car and you aren't doing anything of the sort here. It would be included in the setup and it would not be unfair.

So you're saying that adding cam timing adjustment would make the sim ino nfsu ??

please think about your replies before you post them. Stop flaming in peoples threads and stop having a go at drifters and people who want to put big wheels on their cars.

how is that a flame? im saying that for people that have no idea how to do it/what on earth that even means.. that gives the people that do know what they are doing a serious advantage..
when i mean mod.. i dont mean like body kits and whatnot, i mean anything having to do with the engine and modding anything in it that would give people advanteges over other people

btw.. i do drift sometimes.. and my sisters car has big wheels.. what are you trying to prove in my personal life?

I think the performance for adjusting a cams timing would be negligible. More then likely you won't even notice a difference racing. Now having an assortment of different cams to use for each engine is a different story.

it wouldn't give people anymore advantage than they have now as it would be included within setups. Hardly anyone makes their own setups especially noobs.

While I would enjoy tinkering, there is at least some benefit to knowing the straight line performance of all the cars is always identical. This isn't an engineering sim after all.

Quote from Bob Smith :

While I would enjoy tinkering, there is at least some benefit to knowing the straight line performance of all the cars is always identical. This isn't an engineering sim after all.

That logic baffles me.

It seems to suggest that allowing for any setup changes is a disadvantage. Allowing the user to select from an INFINITE set of gear ratios, for instance, is very much engineering simulation...not race car at the track simulation.

If I can vary the anti-roll at both ends from zero to "solid axle conversion kit" while driving, why is it ridiculous to be able to tweak realistically adjustable parameters like cam timing in the pits?

Not that I particularly care if engines ever become adjustable...I just think your logic is a bit off.

The people complaining about "having a disadvantage for not being in the know" similarly baffle me. Putting together a driveable and optimal setup for a given track/car is no easy task, and requires a plethora of knowledge and careful testing.

If X user doesn't know what tradeoff he could make by adjusting cam timing for KY Oval vs. SO sprint, X user probably doesn't put together his own setups anyways.

Surely cam tuning is in the same ballpark as ignition tuning?, that being there is one sweet spot for a given engine that gives the best performance?.

If a race engine is setup to race, which I assume the LFS engines are, adding any form of engine tuning is pointless, as the engine should already be tuned to produce the best output.

Dan.

Quote from danowat :

Surely cam tuning is in the same ballpark as ignition tuning?, that being there is one sweet spot for a given engine that gives the best performance?.

If a race engine is setup to race, which I assume the LFS engines are, adding any form of engine tuning is pointless, as the engine should already be tuned to produce the best output.

Dan.

Well, thats not quite right.

With CAM timing you have a window of values (generally stated as the Maximum Opening Point, MOP) at which the cams are designed for. The engine builder/tuner will choose the cams for the timing required, and fine tune them to give more low down torque, or more top end power. But only very small changes can be safely made with the cams really (+- 4 degrees). Of course, pinking, detonation, misfiring, knocking etc etc are all influenced by this.

To make noticable changes you would choose different lobe profiles, possibly but not always for inlet and exhaust (often the same profile for both).

Ignition timing works slightly differently. To all intents are purposes, combustion takes a fined (and not really varying) time. The ignition timing is adjusted so that the combustion (fixed speed) occurs at the right time relative to engine revs (varying speed). Hence at idle you have about 8 degrees BTDC firing, but at 4000rpm it can go quite a lot more advanced, say to 35 degrees (these figures depend on the engine/characteristics required, so don't reset all your engines ).

So yes, iginition timing (at idle, and varying speeds above idle), and cam timing are set at 'optimum' values before the engine is run on track (unless the engine builder was an idiot (most of them) in which case you see people fiddling in the paddock).

The only worthwhile change to adjust performance would be to change the cam profiles, but thats a big change, and tends to require a bit of an engine strip down.

Either way, I think LFS would benefit by NOT having adjustable cams or ignition timing.

cam tuning changes the power band of the engine slightly, meaning u could adjust it to have good bottom end power for tracks like AS Cadet or good top end for tracks like FE Black.

But it's so slight that it wouldn't have much effect on lap times or speeds.

So regardless of me being right or wrong, normally I am wrong so thats not anything new , the idea of any form cam tuning or ignition tuning would be negligable as the engine would/should already be tuned for best performance anyway?.

I think the way LFS is now, is best, it pretty much gives everyone a level playing field....

Dan.

engines dont naturally match ALL tracks, for example most top TOP kart racers have about 10 motors minimum, each one has the characteristics for each circuit (bottom, middle and top end power differences)

Surely karts are a whole different kettle of fish to the cars in LFS?.

Dan.

yes and no, it just shows that you cant have 1 engine for all tracks, even tho the cars have gears, u still need the powerband in different places

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

engines dont naturally match ALL tracks, for example most top TOP kart racers have about 10 motors minimum, each one has the characteristics for each circuit (bottom, middle and top end power differences)

Yeah but those engines have many different types of powerbands, not something like a 3 degrees of timing.

?

lol that was what I was thinking

those engines have many different types of powerbands? an engine can only have 1 powerband unless the exaust legth is changed, the carb is changed, or many other factors which im sure no one cares about.

i dont have a clue what u meant lol