Ok, here's the deal. I've got a second hand PC (I've mentioned this many times here before and recently). It is an HP 768? I think. P4 2.5 GHz with 512 mb RAM and 8 MB onboard graphics. I don't have AGP, PCI only (old not the express). I'm looking for a card soon. I've seen an FX5500OC locally in the store which says the OC is for overclocked. I also see ATI 9250 in PCI configuration. Both are 256 MB. I've seen both cards for around $70 US online. The FX5500OC in the store is $125, thank you chain retailers!! I have no clue when it comes to graphic cards. All I know about is the memory. These two cards are the only ones I've come up with that have pci interface. Here are links to these two cards and the features/specs

ATI 9250 - http://www.diamondmm.com/S9250PCI256.php

FX5500OC - http://www.bfgtech.com/5500OC_pci.html

Actually, scrap the FX5500OC. I can only find that at Walmart and I won't buy stuff like this from them again (unless it is a screaming deal for $125). I did see the non-overclocked card at newegg.com. So one of these cards is what I'd like to get. I just don't know which one, the 9250, FX5200, or FX5500. They all support directX 9 that I know of. Or is there any other good PCI cards that I don't know of for under $100 US. Following is a link to the cards on newegg.com

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... ry=48&Submit=Property

Or there is the following at TigerDirect:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/app ... tegory_slc.asp?CatId=1603

Thank you

This site says the Radeon is faster: http://jathardware.com/index.p ... w&id=74&Itemid=30 (the site is in finnish, but the that list is in speed order)
They are probably AGP versions, but it still means that the core is faster. If the prices are about the same Radeon is the way to go.

Well, i did play LFS on a celeron433 with a PCI Rage 128 (ehem, 8MB) for
a while. I doubt it would have handled S2, but S1 with all details at low,
i could go online with a few cars. over 4 cars and the start would be laggy,
but the rest was tolerable, i had around 30fps, again, except the start
where it would go down...

I'd consider buying another motherboard, i know my K7N7 is grrreat and was
cheap. I has AGP and can use DDR in 'double' mode. It's rated at DDR400.
All in all a versatile card that costs relatively little. Then, you have much
more graphic card choices.

Guys, keep in mind that his PC is an HP. Which means that he most likely can't change the motherboard even if he wanted to. And PCI may not be as fast as AGP, but it's still going to be a damn sight better than on-board graphics.

mrodgers - You might be able to find something decent at a computer store that sells used items, and it'll probably be much cheaper than buying new. It's going to be tough finding an on-the-shelf PCI graphics card these days. If worst comes to worst I've got an old PCI Rage 128 (i think it's PCI anyway) sitting at home that I'll send you for free. Dunno how fast it'll be, but it does have more than 8MB of video RAM.

Gut the ol' hp comp.

Thats what i did, gutted my old computer, took the HD, DVD drive, Sound card from it, all i had to buy was Ram, new mobo, new cpu and vid card. Now i got a killer sys. for less then 1000$ CDN.

$1000 a LOT more than the ~$150 he was looking to spend on a video card.

Even in Canadian dollars.

Hehehe, I appreciate all the responses and I figured I would get these kinds of responses. I'd love to just gut the thing. It is an ATX case and just stuff it with the latest and greatest, or at least with something better than the crap HP puts in them. I think I wrote about my PC over at RSC, but basically this is it and why I would never ever spend my hard earned cash on any off the shelf crap like HP, Dell, or anything. I had a Compaq 75 MHz (Yes I said MHz) Pentium that I used playing ICR2 up to November last year. Wife at home taking care of 2 kids, house payment, car payment, etc, etc, I'm working on a single income providing for my family. We are slowly getting further in debt waiting for some stupid loans and hospital bills to be paid off so we can get the $10,000 credit cards paid off (0% for 6 more months on those). So, buying a PC is not, nor was ever in my future. My aunt called me and asked if I wanted her old PC for the kids programs to run on as she got a new one. So a year ago I picked up for nothing a Celeron 667. Wow, I could run with very low graphics, NR2002. I was in heaven. I had an old ATI Rage 128 (same you mentioned Fonnybone, thanks ) that allowed me to run NR2002. 16 MB I think. Then I found S1 Demo. It ran on the 667 as long as too many weren't connected. Shortly later, S2 Demo was released. I no longer could run LFS. But then someone at work had a PC sitting in his basement that was hit by a power surge. He couldn't get it booted as some others couldn't when they tried as well. They were trying to reinstall XP and it was locking up. He said take it home and mess with it. If you get it working, it's yours. So blah blah, the sound card and modem was fried, I replaced, loaded windows and now I sit here 6 months later racing you all in S2 Alpha. It was a huge hassle though, trying to find out info on this mobo and stuff because it's HP crap. So never will I buy anything off the shelf like this one was. Now, basically, I got a couple of bucks that the other half doesn't know about and am just looking for a card to put in this one. I did try to put the 16meg ATI card in it, but using the faster DDR ram onboard must be much better than the separate old card with more ram. I can run LFS with no more than 15 others and I can now run NR2003 which I couldn't on the Celeron 667 (I ran 2002 before). Since LFS is really exclusively the only thing I use the PC for anymore, I just want to get a bit better performance out of LFS with what I have and putting very little money into it. Even though it's PCI and the cards are quite older, I figured it would be miles better than what I have now with the onboard GFX. Just from hearing opinions through the years on ATI vs. nVidia, I'd head towards ATI, but really didn't know either way as I have no experience on graphic cards.


So, thanks for the responses, it is appreciated. Though a motherboard replacement would be cheap, I'd be looking at also different RAM, and spending more on a graphics card than I want or have. This one does run fine, but needs a boost in the graphics department. I'll probably check out the 9250 as, I don't know, I'm just stuck on ATI going by what I've always heard.

Thanks all and happy racing !!

I have a Ati Radeon 9250 SE 256 MB.


The card is fine, runs LFS fine only prob is cant run AA or AF in LFS, as it only can attain around 15fps. Apart from that, the card runs around 40 - 70 fps.

Cool marsden1002, thanks for the response!! I was hoping someone with one fo these cards would respond. Wondering what your other system specs were, processor and Ram? And I assume WinXP?? Hmm, the cards I saw I don't believe were the SE version. You say your's is. I've heard alot that the SE's were a cheaper version, so not as good as the regular or Pro as what they call them now. As I said, in cockpit view I get 15 but in wheels view I get 45-50, so if I could just get good enough to run 45-50 in cockpit view I'd be happy. At least until far into the future when I could replace the entire PC.

See what you can find used. You can probably find that same card or a comparable card for dirt cheap. LOTS of people just scrap their old machine when they buy new, so you can find parts that are just fine for next to nothing.

Quote from mrodgers :

Cool marsden1002, thanks for the response!! I was hoping someone with one fo these cards would respond. Wondering what your other system specs were, processor and Ram? And I assume WinXP?? Hmm, the cards I saw I don't believe were the SE version. You say your's is. I've heard alot that the SE's were a cheaper version, so not as good as the regular or Pro as what they call them now. As I said, in cockpit view I get 15 but in wheels view I get 45-50, so if I could just get good enough to run 45-50 in cockpit view I'd be happy. At least until far into the future when I could replace the entire PC.

Hmm, SPecs are a lot greater thou. Athlon 64 3200+, 1024 MB , Ati Radeon 9250SE (around £60 over in UK now) Windows XP Pro

Only problem is, for some reason, on a full field now, i only get around 25FPS. Unsure why it has dropped, but oh well!!

Ill also let you know how it runs when ive got my other monitor linked to it (Dual screening!!),

Hope this helps

Also, the SE are cheeper i think, but was unaware of this when i bought the system - ill look out next time!

Hi.

@ Mr Rogers.... Uh I don't know if this helps, BUT....
I bought Radeon 9250 (AGP) Card about four months ago. It fried out on me this morning...one month past the 90 day warranty
I know you wanting info on PCI, but I figure a 9250 is a 9250 is a 9250. The card I had only had a heatsink. It didn't come with a fan. and there was no way to take the heatsink off and replace it. I think it overheated.

Also if you have an HP and that's the mother board that came with it,
you may be even more limited to your election of cards. I forget why or how come
but a lot of the proprietary stuff, if you had space in your case for it, would only work with either a radeon or with a nvidia card only. (i think your HP is
Radeon only, but i'm just not sure). When I rebuilt my compaq, I had to really just build a new computer - case and all. Aside from the mouse and KB, the only thing i have in the comp that's still compaq is the A: drive and an LED

Oh the Radeon card I had to replace was made by a company called KASER.
I advise you to steer clear of that brand name.

One more thing, Good luck fixing the comp

THe card I got now is a GeForce 6200 overclocked (129.00) US
and so far so good

Quote from Racer Y :

THe card I got now is a GeForce 6200 overclocked (129.00) US and so far so good

Sorry, but you got ripped off. A quick look on pricewatch.com shows that the 6200 typically goes for less than $100, and often less than $80. Also, for $20 more, you could have gotten a much better card, a 6600GT.

they're boh rip offs... and rubbish cards. mind you, it is PCI. The AGP equivalents are a lot cheaper, they're probably high priced cos of the low demand.

id look around some more, and definately do not buy from shops. get it from somewhere online, i know www.newegg.com is good for the US.

Quote from vpr01 :

The AGP equivalents are a lot cheaper, they're probably high priced cos of the low demand.

Wow... just, wow...

i dont even look at that market anymore, and im not entirely sure why i posted here. i would ultimately reccomend saving more money and buying a new motherboard etc.

I´d also say: save some more money to get a P4 board with AGP slot and a nice 6600 (non GT) or Ati 9600pro maybe.
Would cost not more than 200$ prolly and the performance gain will be HUGE!

Don´t throw your money away for PCI graphics

and it really is throwing it away (money that is). its shit, and sooooo not worth the money you pay for it.

Quote from Forbin :

Sorry, but you got ripped off. A quick look on pricewatch.com shows that the 6200 typically goes for less than $100, and often less than $80. Also, for $20 more, you could have gotten a much better card, a 6600GT.

LOL yeah and are those PCI pr AGP?... plus when you add in shipping costs and down time.... well I just don't see that savings guy.
I don't buy much online and when I need to replace something on my comp, I usually have to do it NOW...RIGHT NOW.
The store I went to had their PCI cards in that price range, actually maybe a little cheaper.

Plus when I changed out the fried card, the first replacement was defective,
WHen I went back to exchange it, my stupid ass grabbed a PCI Express one by mistake ( I use AGP) and I guess the third time's the charm. But I managed to mess with 3 cards and get myself back on track in the course of a day. I couldn't do that even almost that fast by ordering online.


Uh, after posting this, I went to the Pricewatch site. They didn't have the card I bought listed. The one they had for 69.00 was a 5200 PCI,
Mine is a 6200 AGP... uh that card they had was the same price as the one I saw at a real store, so nope I would've gotten ripped off if I went there.

Resurecting my thread here. I went out and picked up the ATI 9250 like I was looking at. The manufacturer is Diamond, pci interface and 256 mb. My results, I picked up a very slight increase in max frame rate that I see so far. I went from 45-50 to seeing 60. The good part is, I maxed all my sliders, turned everything that was off before on, and I AM DRIVING IN COCKPIT VIEW!!!! That was really the most important part. I'm so happy that now, nothing changes no matter what view I'm in. Also, I'm not sure on the AA and AS stuff as I've never had it before, but I tested with AA at 6X (maxed) and like I said, all LFS options turned up. Man, that sky is really pretty when you have the clouds on. Still have a max res of 1024x768, but moved to 32 bit. Turned the shadows on, the Hardware Vertex Shader on (whatever that does?) and increased the Z-buffer to 24 (don't know what that is either). I can turn Vert Sync on and the multiplayer speed up option off. I still left some dynamic LOD as I think I'll drop dramatically at the starts still. My bottleneck is definitely my 2.5 P4 now as well as my ancient 17 inch CRT with max res of 1024x768. Haven't started a race yet with 15+ others, so have to test that out as well.

So to summarize, overall got a 10-15 max FPS increase and it didn't seem to change at all turning up the graphics options. But most important to me is driving in the cockpit view again. Unfortunately, I got use to the wheels view, so I have to get use to the cockpit again. I'll have to do the benchmark to quantify the improvements. And I didn't have the AS turned up yet either.

Saw it at newegg.com for $65 with a $20 rebate, so for a measly $45 I figured I'd go for it.

I'm well aware of the difference between a 5200 and a 6200...

ASUS 6200 AGP with 128MB: $61.50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... .asp?Item=N82E16814121542

XFX 6200 AGP with 256MB: $69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... .asp?Item=N82E16814150107

XFX 6600GT AGP with 128MB: $146.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ ... .asp?Item=N82E16814150089

Benchmarks:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2466&p=2

Note that in the benchmarks, the 6200TC is listed. This is the PCI-Express version but should be comparable to an AGP 6200. As I said, if you paid $130, you could have gotten a 6600GT for about that price and gotten twice the performance.

But then it matters not to me what you buy. It's your money.

Quote from Forbin :

ASUS 6200 AGP with 128MB: $61.50

XFX 6200 AGP with 256MB: $69.99

XFX 6600GT AGP with 128MB: $146.00

But then it matters not to me what you buy. It's your money.

Quote from mrodgers :

...I don't have AGP, PCI only (old not the express)...

...These two cards are the only ones I've come up with that have pci interface...

For just a measly $45 I didn't get better performance (due to LFS and the CPU), but increased my graphics. No performance change from min to max graphics with this, but had min only performance with onboard. I also maxed my graphics in MS Flight Simulator (to my max res of 1024x768 anyways). AGP would have been as you state, $130, but then add $30 or $40 for mobo, what? $50 for 512 mb ram? Then I'd be looking at $210-220. May as well drop the P4 2.5 and go with an AMD 3.x something then. At that point, I'll just look at tossing the HP junk and build from scratch.

From memory of people I know who put a new graphics card in a HP system, they had to spend ages toying around in BIOS because the BIOS has been setup to be a bitch so you can't upgrade yourself. One guy never got a card to work in his system at all.

Before you buy the card, check around in BIOS just to see if you have the options to set graphics to a PCI adapter. Else you'd have just wasted your money.

And those telling him to buy a new mobo are fooling yourselves. HP like all other OEM systems. They make it as hard as possable to upgrade as they can.
This is my mates Dell, he wanted to change the mobo, but wasn't sure if he'd fit a fullsize in the case... take three guesses what the answer was.

Sorry, mrodgers, I was responding to Racer Y, not you. Sorry for not being clear.