Quote from Ian.H :

but the best racing IMO is door handle to door handle.. I personally couldn't care less if I win or lose.. but if I can run almost parallel with another driver or fight infront of / behind for my position for 50 laps, then it's an absolute great experience.

You can't race door to door without going in circles?

Personally, I can't wait until the day when computers are able to simulate complete cities and states with realistic roadways and traffic patterns. I would LOVE to have a virtual race from California to New York, using real world roads, real traffic patterns, and accurate physics. A virtual Gumball Rally, if you will - but completely safe and legal.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

You can't race door to door without going in circles?

I guess so.. but I think being able to try and cue up a pass or get into a defensive position at certain parts of a circuit adds to the excitement.. the chances of driving for extended periods side by side on a point to point layout are much slimmer too.

Quote :

Personally, I can't wait until the day when computers are able to simulate complete cities and states with realistic roadways and traffic patterns. I would LOVE to have a virtual race from California to New York, using real world roads, real traffic patterns, and accurate physics. A virtual Gumball Rally, if you will - but completely safe and legal.

It's not a race, it's a rally

If I had the £24k entry fee (and "spare change" for fines etc) for this years event and a car that'd be accepted, I'd be doing it.. alas, I'll just be settling for seeing the launch and the finish as it's starting and ending in London this year.. do I want to do this on a computer? nope.. maybe it's an age thing



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Ian.H :

It's not a race, it's a rally

If I had the £24k entry fee (and "spare change" for fines etc) for this years event and a car that'd be accepted, I'd be doing it.. alas, I'll just be settling for seeing the launch and the finish as it's starting and ending in London this year.. do I want to do this on a computer? nope.. maybe it's an age thing

I was talking about the original Cannonball Baker races that the Gumball Rally movie is based on, not the current "Gumball 3000" crap. The former was an incognito race where the participants did their best to stay under the radar and get from point A to point B as quickly as possible. The latter is a "rally" with timed stop points and contestants which make a point of showing off for the cameras.

The smilies were meant to show a light-hearted comment

If you think illegal street racing is k00l great, there's NFS for that... doesn't seem to be what LFS is about from this side of the pond.

Gumball 3000 just looked like something interesting to do once if you can afford it. No interest in cameras myself, just a group of people getting together interested in cars etc.. much like cruises I used to attend when I was 17-21



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Ian.H :

If you think illegal street racing is k00l great, there's NFS for that... doesn't seem to be what LFS is about from this side of the pond.

...wandering completely off topic...

Not in the least. The original Cannonball Baker was a statement against the 55mph national speed limit. It wasn't a "street race" in the Fast and Furious sense. It was an experiment to have fun AND to show that cars could safely drive at a high rate of speed on the US national highway system without endangering the motorist or the public, similar to the autobahn in Europe.

I'm not a fan of street racing at all and didn't mean to give that impression. The whole idea of a sim is to be able to do something that we can't do in real life. Driving 120mph across the US is one of those things that I can't do in real life, but would like to experience - consequence free - none the less.

going back a few posts...

Quote :

I think being able to try and cue up a pass or get into a defensive position at certain parts of a circuit adds to the excitement.. the chances of driving for extended periods side by side on a point to point layout are much slimmer too.

I don't understand why you think that a road layout can't offer the same thing as a track in this regard. There are just as many passing opportunities on a road course as a track. And lining up a pass is even more intense, IMO, because the curves are all different. You can't just wait until the next lap to try turn 2 again. How would the chances of driving side by side be any less on a road course than a race track? Two drivers will either be equal enough to be dicing it out or they won't. Whether or not the track repeats itself has no bearing on this.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

...wandering completely off topic...

Not in the least. The original Cannonball Baker was a statement against the 55mph national speed limit. It wasn't a "street race" in the Fast and Furious sense. It was an experiment to have fun AND to show that cars could safely drive at a high rate of speed on the US national highway system without endangering the motorist or the public, similar to the autobahn in Europe.

Fair enough, not being from the US (or knowing much of your history per-se) I can't make too much of a comment on that.. it read to me like you were looking for a FnF type run where cars can use their 30 gears and hit their 60mph top ends.. I stand corrected

Quote :

I'm not a fan of street racing at all and didn't mean to give that impression. The whole idea of a sim is to be able to do something that we can't do in real life. Driving 120mph across the US is one of those things that I can't do in real life, but would like to experience - consequence free - none the less.

I don't see the point in wanting to drive across public roads at speeds like that in a game. OK, I've been silly enough to do those speeds and more here on public roads (during early hours of the morning, not rush hour, although that's really no excuse) so maybe I don't feel the need to want to do that in a game.. plus our national speed limit is 70mph which while it isn't 120mph or as flexible as some Autobahns in Germany etc, isn't as restrictive as your 55mph.. so I guess it maybe a "freedom" thing.

Quote :

going back a few posts...
I don't understand why you think that a road layout can't offer the same thing as a track in this regard. There are just as many passing opportunities on a road course as a track. And lining up a pass is even more intense, IMO, because the curves are all different. You can't just wait until the next lap to try turn 2 again. How would the chances of driving side by side be any less on a road course than a race track? Two drivers will either be equal enough to be dicing it out or they won't. Whether or not the track repeats itself has no bearing on this.

I guess my comment about lack of opportunity would be that it's difficult to be consistent around a circuit, thus chances for both parties to make a mistake / take advantage of a mistake whereas to me, an open road leads to less of these opportunities as consistency isn't so much of a factor as you don't hit the same stretch twice to be consistent on.

I think knowing that you have the same layout coming up in 2 mins time or the likes is what makes the battles more fun / likely.. if you're infront, you know the driver behind will try at T2 to dive down the inside, so you know where you need to be on the track to defend.. chasing and knowing that the other dude has trouble staying tight through T4 means you have a chance to position yourself to take advantage. To me, a road race is just pot luck as to passing opportunities.



Regards,

Ian

Ian, speedlimits on most highways here are either 65 or 75mph. In the south, you can sometimes see the posted limits at 80, even 85.

Cheers,
Matt.

Quote from KanseiDneova :

Ian, speedlimits on most highways here are either 65 or 75mph. In the south, you can sometimes see the posted limits at 80, even 85.

Cheers,
Matt.

Oops.. thanks Matt, I didn't know that.. my ignorance thought it was a 55mph thing "everywhere".

Not sure where that puts my previous statement now, heh.. maybe just a difference of opinion on what constitutes fun racing



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Ian.H :

oh and of course, the use of the non-existent word "touge".

Ian

Just like those other crazy non-existent words tsunami and sushi eh?

Ian doesnt understand drifting very well. and what's sad is there are people that dont understand racing very well trying to argue with him here... but this arguement is moving too quickly and i'm too lazy to really interject

Quote from hungryhippo :

Just like those other crazy non-existant words tsunami and sushi eh?

tsunami seems to exist...
http://dictionary.reference.co ... q=tsunami&x=0&y=0

as does sushi...
http://dictionary.reference.co ... h?q=sushi&x=0&y=0

touge however doesn't:
http://dictionary.reference.co ... h?q=touge&x=0&y=0


It's just something kids think sounds cool because they heard it on TV or the likes for the most part here. It may well exist when spoken in Japanese (I'm guessing Japanese, Asia isn't my expertise of the world ) but it means nothing within an English sentence, but overly abused in many English posts


Edit:
Looking further, we have:

Quote :

Misconceptions
Stemming from this surge in popularity, the term has been pirated and misused by overzealous enthusiasts (often incorrectly as a verb) to erroneously describe almost any event involving street racing, even when there are no mountain passes involved.

Another common mistake is the association of drifting with touge, implying at times that the words share a common definition. While drift is considered a style or form of driving, touge does not necessarily have any binding relationship to motorsports.

Regards,

Ian

Good ol wiki.

It's loosely defined as a two-man battle up or down a mountain pass, with a certain set of rules. It's a style of racing and, as the wiki points out, is often mistakenly associated with dorifto (touge's focus seems to be on the fastest driver, just like any racing, and not on awarding style points). Drifting might well be the quickest way around some mountain corners, but speed, not slip angle, would seem to be the order of the day. I probably wouldn't "toe-gay" myself as I much prefer racing normally on a circuit or racing a clock on a stage, but that's not to say I don't want a hilly tarmac environment (there was a great mountain circuit in the netKar namie which was awesome fun in the 360 Modena). If some kind of mountain stage (point-to-point, that is, though I'm not sure how likely it is that we'll see closed stages in LFS) or circuit were to be included in LFS I'd love to see some rally/hillclimb cars included to make the best use of it - although, come to think of it, the LXs would be a blast up or down a hill

So, anyway, I'd like to see a mountain course, but I'm not going to drift on it or do any touge races. I'm sure others will do different things with their cars Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law!

Quote from Gabkicks :

http://www.reference.com/search?r=13&q=Touge

That's where my 'Misconceptions' quote came from and as I said, it means nothing within an English sentence



Regards,

Ian

+1 to the track idea.

-1 to Ian for caring so much about what other people think. Times are changing, so are people. Get used to it and stop being such a sour puss.

sushi use to be non-existant in english,until the western world picks up the idea and the word. Same will happen to Touge, it's just a matter of time, so get over it.

I don't think mountain course provide as much passing opportunity as a race track either, simply because a mountain course is very narrow, it is very hard to create an opening not to mention having a straight long enough to pull alongside, that's why in real world they race by taking turns, one leading and one chasing, if the leader open up a gap he wins, if the following close down the gap, he wins. Occasionally there is passing if someone setup his attack for a few turns and strike where the opposition is weakest.

It is a different kind of racing, maybe not what track junkies are interested but I think there is value.

To the pesron saying "its gay when kids use the words touge"

Some people think its just easyer to say "touge" than mountain pass, and touge can sometimes refer to the style of race down a narrow mountain pass.

Now however, i can see why you complain if the movie was titled

"Fast and furious 3, Tou-ge-o Grip".

I like the concept of touge and I think it'd be cool to watch it done well, I just don't think I'd like to actually do it. It'd be like racing on a rally stage where you couldn't really pass - it's not that I'm always able to pass, it's the trying that I like. Dicing with another guy who's just as fast or a bit quicker than you, but not in all sections, is what gets me off about racing on circuits.

Quote from Hankstar :

I like the concept of touge and I think it'd be cool to watch it done well, I just don't think I'd like to actually do it. It'd be like racing on a rally stage where you couldn't really pass - it's not that I'm always able to pass, it's the trying that I like. Dicing with another guy who's just as fast or a bit quicker than you, but not in all sections, is what gets me off about racing on circuits.

The rules in most touge races is like this.

You are NOT allowed to pass. One car starts off on lead, the other car chase. If the car in front can ditch the car behind by the marked finish, then he wins.
However, if the guy in front can not shake the guy behind him off, and the guy behind can ride his ass the whole time, then the guy behind wins.



Anyways, i have a new obsession for mountian roads. They just look so fun to drive.

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

The rules in most touge races is like this.

You are NOT allowed to pass.

Dude, game over. You can keep yer dang toogee

But give me a mountain road and something with an attractive power to weight ratio and I'll be sweet :up:

Quote from Sketchyrollin564 :

TYou are NOT allowed to pass.

That's just a rule defined by the 'Touge'/Mountain pass racers due to the fact that any attempts in overtaking at such hazardous roads are considered too dangerous.

If a mountain course is added in LFS, I don't see why we can't attempt to overtake if the opportunity is there, afterall, you don't die if you fail in a PC game.

Quote from sam93 :

Yea but i think some drift lovers would love that as that is how they drift in japan where drifting came from if your not real drift lovers dont post this is for drift lovers

where does this say "for drift lovers only?" in the OP title, you drifters get really carried away dont you? I respect your decision to drift but just don't want to see LFS be asked to include drift specific things it is not a drifting simulation.

Perhaps if all the drift afficionados sent Scawen $10 dollars with the request that they'll happily pay him to code a LFS drift simulation seperate from and completely only for drifters ...... then you might be able to make inflammatory comments like "if your not real drift lovers dont post this is for drift lovers."

You are NOT a moderator you have no right to tell, force bully etc other members from posting their comments to any thread here on this forum and I take exception to these "dont post here" unless you are (insert whatever style of racing you belong to here)

I am a member of this community I don't wish to be categoried and bullied by another member, censored by anyone who does not have the authority to do so.

I beleive LFS does need a lot of different add on packs , drifting, rally etc to cater for all styles of racing. But doesn't need minority groups to tell people they can or not post, or race on certain servers etc cause they drift there

Quote from SNOOP [Drift-Era] :

[ snip ]

Why u racers always try to separate from drifters? If LFS is only racing sim, so why does if has RallyCross tracks? Let's cut rally from LFS to let it be only RACING sim. Huh?
Damn! It looks like war here, at forums.

Rallycross _is_ racing.. "drifting" isn't.

As for why many racers distance themselves from "drifters", I can't speak for others, but for myself, read post #1... "like initial d and fast and furious".. hardly something to be taken seriously with a request like that that's a request best suited for the NFS forums and when I see people ask for, and photos of black tyres producing red smoke.. there's nothing to do but laugh yourself silly as such stupidity



Regards,

Ian

Quoth Snoop: "If LFS is only [a] racing sim ... why does it have RallyCross tracks?"

Just so you know: on Rallycross tracks, you race other people. RallyX tracks aren't point-to-point, one-at-a-time rally stages, they're circuits like any other in LFS. Just FYI.

I have one theory for the people who get hostile whenever they hear the 'd' word around here.
They get ticked when, trying to find a server to race on, find that 90% of the populated ones have one or more variety of "dRiFt" madness going on about it .
At least that's what I see for demo servers. If this is an incentive to go S2, well I won't wait too much longer.

Don't get me wrong, I love the drift. In fact, there is no such thing as "grip" driving. As long as a tire assumes a nonzero slip angle (by turning the steering wheel, among other things) , it is drifting ever so slightly. To be less of a smartass about it, there's something beautiful about those GPL drivers and their (slightly exaggerated) pre-downforce 4 wheel drifts.