it seems popular nowadays in europe to hate america.

Quote from Gabkicks :

it seems popular nowadays in europe to hate america.

i wonder why...
http://www.blennus.com/index.p ... ew&id=718&Itemid=

and btw, its not just in europe.
generally speaking the usa has no culture imports and basically just exports.
selfsuficience is the worse caracteristic that a culture can have. especially when theres a neocon agenda to propagate themselves everywhere, enforcing with ignorance and by any means, a certain colonialistic game, most really developed nations stoped playing 500 or 400 years ago.
Many good things in usa and some really bright people, but totally constrained by the majority that sports the true nature on which that country stands on...

Quote from Hallen :

I think the biggest shame is that a lot of cable companies put SPEED in with a extra-cost add on package along with a bunch of channels few racing fans want.

Ours was like that for a long while.

Recently, both Comcast and Adelphia have added it to basic cable. I don't know if Time Warner has yet. Sucks that you get no choice with the cable companies.

That link is awful. Man. Please note we aren't all that clueless, lol.

Quote from KiDCoDEa :

i wonder why...
http://www.blennus.com/index.p ... ew&id=718&Itemid=

and btw, its not just in europe.
generally speaking the usa has no culture imports and basically just exports.
selfsuficience is the worse caracteristic that a culture can have. especially when theres a neocon agenda to propagate themselves everywhere, enforcing with ignorance and by any means, a certain colonialistic game, most really developed nations stoped playing 500 or 400 years ago.
Many good things in usa and some really bright people, but totally constrained by the majority that sports the true nature on which that country stands on...

soomeone just posted that link on another thread. lol
the masses are stupid but the same can be said for other countries.

Quote from Hallen :

I really don't understand the mentality that Arcade Syle=American.

I think his analogy was referring strictly to film styles. Think "Pearl Harbor" vs. "Dark Blue World". No need to get some Neocon-Bushite vs. Eurotrash-Commie war going here.

The hardcore race sim genre was invented here in the U.S.A. after all!

I have to comment on the Nascar bashing that I see constantly here on the forum. I've been a Nascar fan for quite some time (go ahead and bash me, make fun of me, whatever). I am not an F1 fan at all. I read all the time Nascar being bashed because it is not real racing. Nascar is real racing. Nascar drivers are real racers. It is Nascar the "business company" that is not for real. They are the ones screwing up Nascar as a good racing series. In Nascar, the drivers are competing on a track to cross the line finishing first to win. That is racing. They drive 150, 160, 180, close to 200 mph for 400 or 500 miles door to door trying to get to the finish first. The concept of Nascar racing is excellent. There are no computers half driving the cars for them. They are 800 hp V8's with carburated engines, no computers there. No traction control. No anti-lock brakes, no help for anything but the mechanical setup of the car. Then Nascar the "business company" steps up and wants more coverage, more widespread fanbase, more money. They make it less of a racing series than a drama series. The "lucky dog" as they call it (getting an auto lap back under caution), making 3 totally different manufacture of cars identical, the green/white/checker, the chase to the cup, all this to draw in more fans. They (the "business" Nascar) wants to beat American football. That is what this is all about. Take all this away and what do you have, 43 race car drivers driving their cars to the limit for 500 miles trying to cross the finish line first. The heart of Nascar is still there. It is in the drivers driving their mechanical machines, without any aids, to the limit to win. That is what it is all about. Unfortunately, the "upper management" of Nascar is ruining it for the sport and making it a spectacle. My heart lies inside the cars with the drivers taking those machines to the limit. But Nascar the "business" is slowly taking a toll on my patience to watch them. But to say that Nascar is not real racing is wrong. Just because it's on an oval and they don't turn left? Racing doesn't mean turning right and left. It doesn't mean turning only left. It doesn't mean driving only straight. It means 2 or more competing to finish first.

If you really want to talk about REAL racing, I'll tell you where it is. It is out at the local dirt tracks where guys get home from their job on Friday and work on their car in the driveway. They load it up on the trailer and head to the local dirt track with the others. They work on their cars at the track on Saturday with their family and friends, then 7:00 rolls around and they head out on a freshly watered track to pound it out door to door. No Engineers, no crew chiefs, no mechanics department, no engine builders, no pitstops. Just racing.

hehehe, well, we sure managed to steal this thread.

and no, I am not a neocon-bushite (very creative btw ), but I probably am wrapped too tight.:bluegrab:

Quote from mrodgers :

I have to comment on the Nascar bashing that I see constantly here on the forum. I've been a Nascar fan for quite some time (go ahead and bash me, make fun of me, whatever). I am not an F1 fan at all. I read all the time Nascar being bashed because it is not real racing. Nascar is real racing. Nascar drivers are real racers. It is Nascar the "business company" that is not for real. They are the ones screwing up Nascar as a good racing series. In Nascar, the drivers are competing on a track to cross the line finishing first to win. That is racing. They drive 150, 160, 180, close to 200 mph for 400 or 500 miles door to door trying to get to the finish first. The concept of Nascar racing is excellent. There are no computers half driving the cars for them. They are 800 hp V8's with carburated engines, no computers there. No traction control. No anti-lock brakes, no help for anything but the mechanical setup of the car. Then Nascar the "business company" steps up and wants more coverage, more widespread fanbase, more money. They make it less of a racing series than a drama series. The "lucky dog" as they call it (getting an auto lap back under caution), making 3 totally different manufacture of cars identical, the green/white/checker, the chase to the cup, all this to draw in more fans. They (the "business" Nascar) wants to beat American football. That is what this is all about. Take all this away and what do you have, 43 race car drivers driving their cars to the limit for 500 miles trying to cross the finish line first. The heart of Nascar is still there. It is in the drivers driving their mechanical machines, without any aids, to the limit to win. That is what it is all about. Unfortunately, the "upper management" of Nascar is ruining it for the sport and making it a spectacle. My heart lies inside the cars with the drivers taking those machines to the limit. But Nascar the "business" is slowly taking a toll on my patience to watch them. But to say that Nascar is not real racing is wrong. Just because it's on an oval and they don't turn left? Racing doesn't mean turning right and left. It doesn't mean turning only left. It doesn't mean driving only straight. It means 2 or more competing to finish first.

If you really want to talk about REAL racing, I'll tell you where it is. It is out at the local dirt tracks where guys get home from their job on Friday and work on their car in the driveway. They load it up on the trailer and head to the local dirt track with the others. They work on their cars at the track on Saturday with their family and friends, then 7:00 rolls around and they head out on a freshly watered track to pound it out door to door. No Engineers, no crew chiefs, no mechanics department, no engine builders, no pitstops. Just racing.

I had to play the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" when I read this. It was very moving. It brought a tear to my eye and made me proud to be a Texan - oops American.

I personally don't like NASCAR, but what you've said is pretty much right. It is very much real racing.

LOL I think they could probably get the ratings away from the NFL if they had
a Janet Jackson style incident involving Jessica Simpson singing the national Anthem at Daytona.

And besides, Americans have refined racing to it's purest form with Drag racing. no Drafting, no trail braking, no pit strategy. Just two drivers seeing which one is faster.

I used to get a little riled with the Anti American sentiment that I hear from time to time,
but I just don't give a rat's ass anymore. Most of those ppl are just repeating what they've been told or what they heard.
Oh and I'm still not convinced that F-1 ain't rigged.

Ok... back to the topic. I only raced two races today. they were both with the road cars (FZ, the LX-6 and RAC). One was on Wsthill the anther was
aston National. THe westhill track had 15min worth a qualifying and 5(?) laps. the national race had 12 laps. I use a wheel to play LFS. after each of these races, I was physically affected, My arms were tense and blood veins were showing thru on my forearms. I felt like I really did something besides just
putting off much needed house work playing video games

Does R factor do THAT?

Ok Back off topic... I think I know why road racing and the other types haven't fared so well in the US. It's because no matter where you sit, you can't see the whole track. Think about it. How many people would be into baseball if they could only see first base? We like to be on the fifty yard line, we like to be behind the plate,
we like to be Center court. we like to be ringside..... you just don't have that with the racing forms. When they had the Texaco Gran Prix here in Houston, one the biggest complaints from people was they only got to see like a four block portion of the course.

Ok once more back to the topic. Uh Rfactor has open and closed wheel racing cars? Eh, I'm not impressed. LFS has street courses, race tracks, rally tracks, a drag strip and something totally original, a parking lot!

Quote from Racer Y :

Does R factor do THAT?

Hmmm... yes, actually. It's a racing game and the I-want-to-be-first thrill is there where it should be like with all racing games I'd think. Don't know if it will give your arms a thorough work-out or help you build six-pack abs, but it will get you hooked if you get involved in some decent, proper racing (which, to my experience, mostly has to do with who you race against more so than what you are racing).

Ha ha. That vid is hilariously frighteneing, Australia is in real trouble if / when the chimp-in-chief decides to attack Iran, France or Korea.

Hehe, that's from a show here called CNNNN, very funny

Quote :

I had to play the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" when I read this.

ROFL


BTW..

Some of you talked about owning and playing more than one racing sim at the same time..
Now, I'm really lazy, I hardly ever do anything for university besides a bit of studying for some of the tests (usually one or 2 days before they are held), and I still don't feel I'd have enough time to play two racing sims.
Working on my lap times in LFS already costs me more time than a anyone 10 months away from his or her state exams should spend on games.
After all, there are other things in my life besides LFS that need attention, e.g. an electric guitar and a '74 Harley. (I don't even have a girlfriend atm)

I suppose some of you people have jobs and families - how the hell would you manage to seriously participate in 2 different online racing communities?

Quote from KiDCoDEa :

well, there's a student version floating around...

I think rFactor is quite cheap for a game (when comparing to average game prizes) and you are talking about student version? I think too that the devs are cowards because they haven't released an up-to-date demo but still...

Hmmm other pointless tread but here is my £0.02

I played all sim in my life starting with Nascar 1 Oh man 320x240 pixeled non 3d card gfx days.

All Driving sim will push each other to be better product than before.
I enjoy LFS most beacuse of Force feedback. it's feel right.

rFactor is nice but is in completly different leagues behind to LFS.
I only bought it because of moddable game and it's better than having 1 sim on my hdd when you are not in mood to play LFS.

I had to turn off the force feedback on Rfactor beacuse it doesnt feel right compared to LFS.

rfactor will kick ass if there is correct 'feel' on force feedback.
I understand the force feedback 'feel' is highly opinioned and subjective but dont go there.

In rFactor,, when you spin..... you cannot recover, even with aids on...
in LFS, you can..... without aids!! THat why it's so specials. As you feel you are connected to LFS Cars.

Just conisder yourselfs lucky, those Consoles(xbox,ps2,etc) dont have proper moddable simulator...... So I am grateful for many game simulator that came out to pc and they are alway improving. oh well JUst like I said my £0.02

Quote from Don Merino :

I suppose some of you people have jobs and families - how the hell would you manage to seriously participate in 2 different online racing communities?

It depends on the degree of "professionalism" you want to achive. As for me, I can enjoy both (or even more) without the need to get anywhere near the world records.

I don't have time for other racing games. Only LFS for me.

Nothing wrong with the other games. LFS is enough game for me. Thats all.

I played RF for a week then got sick of it and went back to LFS. Here are my plus and minuses:

+Nice Graphics(but i dont really care)
+Night driving( So much fun)
+Modding(as modding the game: once it kicks in, it should get crazy)
+Blown tires from damage(Might be in S2 once its finished?)

-Just doesn't feel like a sim
-The cars and tracks just arent very interesting/boring to drive
-Ugly cockpits(No numbers on the Tach and weird steering wheels)
-The price... In it's current form, I find it's real expensive
-Bad AI, but so are the one's in LFS

For now, there are only 2 series that have managed to keep my interest for more then 2 weeks. Nascar Racing series(played for 4 years, no longer play it) and LFS. Once i tryed LFS for the 1st time i got addicted same as NR. The tracks might not be real but my are they ever captivating and the cars are so much fun.

For me... all LFS needs is night-driving, weather effects, and more limitations to the setups of the road cars. Kinda funny that you can adjust you camber setting by 0.1 degree increments on a road car. Another neet feature would be that the time of day would be the same as the time on the server but thats off topic.

Quote from kevman_101 :

-The cars and tracks just arent very interesting/boring to drive

My feelings exactly - the only ones worthwhile for a bit were the H6C mod cars but they had a sort of "unreal" feeling to them and the tracks are just not diverse enough and they don't really hold any "secret" challenges - like the dip at Aston or the chicanes in Fern Bay, etc

Quote :

-Ugly cockpits(No numbers on the Tach and weird steering wheels)

I couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw the Hammer's steering wheel... I thought I was looking at a Saitek product or something...

Quote from ruckus37 :

My basic aim is to see the response from two different sides of the scale, if you do not want to be apart of this, simply decide not to respond.

iv got both games..sims wot ever u want to call um..rfactors good for moding which im not into .sounds are good but lfs is more me...just my 2 p's worth

I don't have a favorite racing game. I switch back and forth between games these days, some of which I mostly play offline, others online. I enjoy arcade racing games as well as simualtion games. My favorite games are the TombRaider series; each release of a new version means I won't be playing anything else for a while.

The most time I spent with a single racing game was an arcade game, need for speed high stakes; it was one of the first true online racing games (a host server instead of player server). The next longest time I've spent with a game is Grand Prix Legends, mostly offline working on my GPL Rank (-12, most of which is due to an 8:15.32 at Nordschleife). Since then, I haven't spent that much time with any particular game.

Simulation type games I like (alphabetical order)

F1C99-02, plus RH2004, SCC and Prototype C mods.
Grand Prix Legends
GTR
GTLegends (waiting to receive this one)
LFS
NR2003, mostly road courses, plus Trans Am and GTP mods.

Other racing games:

Ford Racing 2
Mercedes Benz World Racing
Toca Race Driver 2
Need For Speed series, mostly high stakes, porsche unleased, undergound 2

Some of these games had interesting features. Need For Speed High Stakes, had a cool style to it's night time and/or weather graphics. With Mercedes Benz World Racing, the landscapes are fully implemented and you can drive anywhere on them. Toca Race Driver 2 had a story to go along with it's career mode. F1C99-02 RH2004 mod from TV view has incredible sound.

For anyone who's curious about what rFactor looks like, I've made some videos:

Howston at Toban, 1:42 lap
rfrftgp.wmv

Formula (like an F1) at Toban, 1:07.5 lap
rfrf1tgp.wmv

Formula (like an F1) at Sadian, 27.3 lap
rfrf1sh.wmv

Now what will really impress me is when games look this good
(650hp 911 at Road America):
ra.wmv

Quote from mrodgers :

Is there a demo of rFactor? I didn't think there was. I won't pay for something that I don't know whether it will run on my machine or not. I'd love to try it, but I highly doubt it will run. That's what I love about LFS, I can run it!!

there is a demo of rfactor on the offical site

Quote from roy.s :

there is a demo of rfactor on the offical site

Which was released over an year ago. ISI devs are cowards because they haven't released a new demo.

Quote from deggis :

Which was released over an year ago. ISI devs are cowards because they haven't released a new demo.

Have to say this is key to me not even considering it yet. I am interested but not willing to throw 24 beans at it, when I havent even tried the current version.

I reckon a up to date demo would be a boost.

Edited for horrific spelling...

Quote from deggis :

Which was released over an year ago. ISI devs are cowards because they haven't released a new demo.

I don't feel like comparing Rfactor to LFS, but I can tell - I really felt the difference beetwen LFS S1 and S2 first demo(even tho, the "lfs feeling" was there). Can't say the same about rfactor. So if you don't like the old demo, don't bother buying unless some really awesome mods will come out.