Quote from pb32000 :

The way I see it, £12 every few years is GREAT value for this sim, but tbh when S3 is released, people will think twice about spending £36 on a PC sim.

I really hope Scawen finds a way to make S1/S2 licenses not completely useless by the time S3 comes around (like S1 is now).

Quote from pb32000 :

Which is true for some people, but not 95% of the consumer market.

Exactly one of the points I was trying to make clear LFS' potential userbase is not 100% of the games market. It appeals to a specific group in that market.

When most popular mainstream games come out here, they start with a price of just a little under €70. I'm talking about games like Fifa, or the Need for Speed series. Two years of Fifa games = €120 to €140, depends on the shop. Two years of LFS : €36. And i only have to pay another €18 to get the latest version, instead of another €60/70.

LFS = Cheap

Could buy a wheel. Pfffft. You can buy it, you just need to learn how to spend money right

Quote from Foropsico :

But, man, S2 is not a complete game as each NFS series.

You're now comparing S2 with a complete series of a game?
And considering an S2 license entitles one to the full product why wouldn't it be complete?

Quote :

Maybe LFS is only for a little comunity which could buy a wheel and love sims very much. A comunity that is more worry about physics than other features.

It's not the only important aspect but it is the most important aspect. Which seems obvious to me, considering it aims to be a simulation and not a game.

It's comparable to buying a car. If you had to choose, would you buy a crappy car with all sorts of ricer bodykits, spoilers, 10000 watt speakers, 30 inch rims and a movie theatre inside, or would you buy a quality car with superb handling and clever engineering which is a blast to drive?

Price is not important, it's relative. Value for money should be the true measurement.

Quote from Foropsico :

But, man, S2 is not a complete game as each NFS series.
Maybe LFS is only for a little comunity which could buy a wheel and love sims very much. A comunity that is more worry about physics than other features.

How can you say S2 is not a complete game with a demo licence? As for NFS well perhaps if you played the earlier games you'll know they are boring too.

Great you can drive a Ferrari and get chased by crappy AI police but wheres the fun in that...

Quote from Foropsico :

But, man, S2 is not a complete game as each NFS series.

I almost pissed my pants...
do you consider a game complete when it can be passed in 6 hours and some cars are not in career mode , and not moddable, and are only available in ugly bodykits for one singleplayer race of developers choice, which promised us copchases, and doesn allow to be the cop and bust ugly bodykitted streetracers, and furthermore doesnt allow us to take part in custom copchases but only in predefined car of their choice? (NFS:Carbon)

I state that a complete game is where what developers promised - is what you get...
by my measures LFS alpha is more of a complete product then NFS Full after some patches...

Quote from Foropsico :

S2 is demo with more cars and tracks

With auto-skin downloading, and race results, etc.

Nice copycat, but mine are real

Quote from JamesK :

Then you don't remember for long ... it only hit about $2 o £1 in January, not long ago it was $1.40 to £1. Sorry, but saying its expensive because of the exchange rate won't wash when console games cost $60 there anyway!

No. it just seems that every time I have bothered to look at the exchange rates for some reason, it always seems to be at about 2 to 1 i know it changes a bit, but i dunno just dumb luck on my part that it's 2 to 1 when I look it up. Like 4 years from now, I'll need to know the rates and it will be about 2 to 1. 15 years ago(?) I looked it up and it was 2 to 1. When I was in the 4th grade the subject came up for some reason and the teacher said.... 2 to 1. now in between all those times the rates can be whatever, the next time I'll need it, it'll be 2 to 1. Does that make sense?

I don't see how the total cost is even relevant. I'm certain by that time, that the individual licenses will be supported through easier means than they are now. Scawen already moved that direction with slightly better S1 support. It'll just be like any other "series", but since the feature set will be complete at that point it's 3 equally finished stages with different content. It shouldn't be too hard to allow only licensed cars on licsensed tracks, even if others are driving cars that you didn't license but happen to be on a track that you did (S1 drivers could be on the track in S1 cars, but S2/3 cars could still be on the track - just not driven by the S1 holder).

In the end, you need to compare entire series' with the total cost of LFS and then it's in perspective.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

With auto-skin downloading, and race results, etc.

And all the other features of lfsworld like fuel usage, fastest laps, hotlap charts, most used cars and tracks, etc.

Quote from Davo :

Nice copycat, but mine are real

Real or fake...who cares?

Quote from tristancliffe :

I'd pay double for LFS without thinking, and it would still be the best value game I've ever played.

S1 - £24 ($48)
S2 - £48 ($96)
S3 - £72 ($144)

In fact, I'd probably pay as much as £100 to have S3 (in total, so £33 per stage), and still be happy with it.

But of course I say that with hindsight, knowing that LFS has kept me coming back for more for nearly four years. To a new demo user just looking to have a piss about with an F1 car, and not really caring about the development process or the real-time solutions to everything, it might appear to be expensive - in which case I suspect LFS isn't for them in the first place.

$144 for S3?!!?!?!

Quote from Zachary Zoomy :

$144 for S3?!!?!?!

That's how much Tristan says he would pay for S3, not how much it's actually going to cost. Most likely it will just be another £12.

I'd easily have paid more for LFS, I've only bought two other racing games since and LFS is the only one that keeps me coming back.

Isn't this getting a little (or A LOT) tiresome?

1. People who are still in demo asking for more content cause they are bored of the same cars/tracks all the time and

2. People who OWN a PC and sometimes even a console, complaining that they cannot afford bying LFS.

The short answer to 1 is Buy S2, and the answer to 2 is that you are either lying or you have different priorities in your life so stop whining.

It's really really hard to convince someone that if you have a PC and an internet connection at your disposal you cannot also get 36 euros or whatever your currency is to buy LFS.

Very refreshing - it was about time someone posted this. Don't whine about luxuries you can't afford because you won't spend the effort to save towards it.

Quote from KMSpeed :

Isn't this getting a little (or A LOT) tiresome?

1. People who are still in demo asking for more content cause they are bored of the same cars/tracks all the time and

2. People who OWN a PC and sometimes even a console, complaining that they cannot afford bying LFS.

The short answer to 1 is Buy S2, and the answer to 2 is that you are either lying or you have different priorities in your life so stop whining.

It's really really hard to convince someone that if you have a PC and an internet connection at your disposal you cannot also get 36 euros or whatever your currency is to buy LFS.

Yeah thats a all too true point.

Quote from KMSpeed :

It's really really hard to convince someone that if you have a PC and an internet connection at your disposal you cannot also get 36 euros or whatever your currency is to buy LFS.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is an invalid arguement. You can get free internet (at least you can here in the US) and the PC is provided as a hand-me-down from Aunt Mae. There you go. Can't afford to pay for S2 because of no money and the arguement of PC and internet doesn't stick because they were given for free....

Quote from mrodgers :

You can get free internet (at least you can here in the US) and the PC is provided as a hand-me-down from Aunt Mae. There you go.

So in your scenario a person has been fortunate enough to get a PC and internet connection for free and STILL says the license is too expensive?

Anyway, no matter if someone paid for their PC and connection or not, it's not like buying a car or a house or anything. I do understand it's harder to get the money together for some, but that's just the way it is. Exchange rates and different economic situations are responsible for that, and there's nothing we or the devs can do anything about.
What bothers me is that some people complain they're poor or that LFS is too expensive, but when you get into a discussion about it often is the case that they don't do crap to get themselves in the position to buy it. Get a job, a paperround, wash cars, do chores, save up their allowance, don't buy that hamburger, etc.
If you aren't able to do that or really can't afford it, well tough shit really. That's the way the world works. I can't afford everything I want either. Some things I will never be able to afford, and for some things I set money aside.

Quote from Davo :

Nice copycat, but mine are real

Wow. Nice jugs, Davo, I always assumed you were a guy.

Going back to the original post, he said that $60CDN is a lot of money.

A lot of money, for what? A piece of gum? Cleanly he doesn't think it is worth it. And that is fine. But it is pointless to discuss it. Well, maybe there would be a discussion if the price suddenly doubled one day, or people are forced to subscribe.
As far as I can tell, you can argue about it with about as much result as people arguing about drifting.

I really do think that a lot less people would balk at the price if LFS was sold in a shiny box, published by EA, and had half the content.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm already thoroughly enjoying the demo content, and any additional content provided by the cost of the S2 license would be icing on the cake. If I tired of the demo stuff already (about 2 weeks into it so far) I wouldn't expect S2 to make it any better, at least not for very long and certainly not worth paying $60 for. But no, the demo has me convinced that S2 is certainly worth it. For me.

Quote from Foropsico :

Thats true, but you do not know if the game costs are so hi that devs cant lower the price. I think that the question is: LFS is a game for all the game comunity, or is just for sim racing fans with wheel who would pay good money for this game.

Once again, it's not high compared to other games, especially not when compared to for instance a flight simulator. Besides, this is an indie game and the dev's source of income. Why would they need to lower the price? If they lower the price to for instance 20 pounds for S2, people would still complain.
LFS is years worth of work and dedication by the devs, and they want a fair price for their product.

And IT IS a fair price. You seem to think that the devs are getting ridiculously rich from LFS or something. If they wanted to make a lot of money to would work at a big software company like they used to do (well Scawen and Eric did).

LFS is aimed at sim racing fans, and not the mainstream market like I have tried to explain numerous times. And concerning the price, I don't know how much for instance X-Box games cost in Spain, but over here the prices are ridiculous. And those games are made by big companies with a market segment much much higher than LFS'.

Quote :

Maybe some people dont think that LFS is so important to get a job.

Exactly one of my points. It's fine if you don't want to get a job to buy LFS, I have no problem with that. BUT then don't come complaining here about how you can't afford it and call it expensive! Get off your lazy ass or don't complain! Everything in life costs money and few of us are born rich. Besides, getting a job brings certain benefits anyway, not just being able to buy LFS.

Everything you want to have requires a certain investment, you have to ask yourself: do I want this enough to justify the money or effort I would have to spend on it? If one is not prepared to for instance get a job or do chores to get LFS, he or she simply doesn't want it enough. And that's fine, but I get sick of people putting the source of the "problem" with the product's price and not with their own lazy asses.

Quote :

Any way, not many people used to buy software, hardware is necesary, software is crackeable. So, the price for software must be low.

Ridiculous statement.
So, because I can steal a car, car prices must be low? illepall:

LFS is for everyone with a mouse and keyboard, gamepad or wheels and/or pedals.

Quote from Foropsico :

Any way, not many people used to buy software, hardware is necesary, software is crackeable. So, the price for software must be low.

The price is not set by thieves. It is set according to the projected market and required revenue, amongst other things. Even if LFS cost only $1, do you think enough people would buy it to support the developers? I don't think so. My mother (nor yours I bet) would not purchase LFS simply because she is not in the market. And the market for driving sims (especially without real cars/tracks/bling) is not that large. So, the price must be set carefully.

Do the math:
If the price is $1 and you sell 100,000 copies, you make $1*100,000 = $100,000
If the price is $50 and you sell 10,000 copies, you make $50*10,000 = $500,000

Nobody except for the devs knows how many S2 licenses have been sold or will be sold in the future. I am quite certain that the number is nowhere near what World of Warcraft sells (per months even) :P