LH is exceptional in my book... Very focused, very confident, and leading the championship after four races... True, there weren't some unpredictable situations for him to handle, YET.. but i'm sure he will handle them like a pro...
I just won't believe that the front runner cars are SO much quicker then the others, yes, they have bigger budgets, but it seems by some of the posts that even i could jump in a Ferrari and win a race.. c'mon..
I would pay BIG TIME to see a race where they mix the drivers, putting LH in a Toyota, Super agguri, whatever, Ralf Schumaher in a Mclaren, etc... You think Ralf would win and LH would struggle to take a point...?

Quote from mr grady :

suddenly alonso is overrated? well sorry mate, but he was the guy that beat schumacher into retirement.

One of the most interesting things about everyone being entitled to their own opinion is the hilarity which ensues when someone opines something like this with a straight face. Honestly, to seriously suggest that Alonso put Schumacher into retirement is laughable to me. Schumacher has faced, beaten and been beaten by many drivers of a higher calibre than Alonso throughout his career. Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Nelson Piquet, Nigel Mansell, Mika Hakkinen and Rubens Barrichello to name a few. Schumacher had been in F1 for over 15 years and had almost invariably been in the running. Only a handful of drivers have competed in more than 15 seasons (Graham Hill (18), Riccardo Patrese (17) and Jack Brabham (16)). Michael Schumacher was at the end of his career and he realised it. Better to go out on a high note than to keep going past the point of being truly competitive. There aren't many things sadder than seeing a former champion or great running around to make up the numbers and pick up a cheque. Just as in 1997 and 1998 (and to an extent in 1992, 1993 and 1996), in 2005 and 2006 Schumacher was beaten more by other cars and lack of reliability than he was other driver's talent.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I would pay BIG TIME to see a race where they mix the drivers, putting LH in a Toyota, Super agguri, whatever, Ralf Schumaher in a Mclaren, etc... You think Ralf would win and LH would struggle to take a point...?

Yes. Ralf's pretty quick given the right equipment - we saw that when he was at Williams. He's just not consistently quick.

I'm not saying Hamilton's no good, far from it, but the rest of the drivers in F1 aren't bad either.

not too many massa fans here i guess? 3 pp's and 2 wins in a row. if he'd had better luck in round one he'd be leading the driver's championship right now. the way things are going, he'll be in that spot soon enough.

hamilton... well, it goes to show that consistency counts, but it's easier to be consistent when there is less pressure on you. just look at alonso's mistake in T1. he wouldn't have suffered that setback if he wasn't trying really (too) hard to win.

Quote from amp88 :

in 2005 and 2006 Schumacher was beaten more by other cars and lack of reliability than he was other driver's talent.

so when he won, it was down to his skill, when he lost, it was the cars fault.

senna died at his peak...would ms have won so many races/championships if he hadnt crashed and died?

did ms win the last two world championships? i didn't see massa fight him for the title...it was alonso who beat him fair and square.

Quote from mr grady :

did ms win the last two world championships? i didn't see massa fight him for the title...it was alonso who beat him fair and square.

massa was forbidden to fight him. he was contracted as a support driver, period.

Quote from mr grady :

so when he won, it was down to his skill, when he lost, it was the cars fault.

Schumacher very rarely made driving mistakes and when he did he took full responsibility for them. When he won it was down to a combination of his skill, the performance of the car and the team, as with every victory in motorsport. In races like Spain 1996, Monaco 1997 and Hungary 1998 the victories came largely because of his skill more than anything else.

Quote from mr grady :

senna died at his peak...would ms have won so many races/championships if he hadnt crashed and died?

I disagree with you that Senna was at his peak in 1994. It's my personal opinion he was at his peak in 1990-1992, with flashes of brilliance in 1993 too, of course. If you look at the first 3 races of the 1994 season it gives an insight into how the championship might have gone. At the first round in Brazil Senna outqualified Schumacher but thanks to better pitwork and a faster race pace Schumacher took the win, with Senna spinning out of the race while trying to chase Schumacher. The second round, the Pacific GP, again saw Senna take pole but he was taken out at the first corner by Hakkinen, so we never got to see Schumacher and Senna racing each other here. At the San Marino GP Senna again took pole and would almost certainly have taken the race win had he not had his accident. Schumacher would have finished second, so after 3 races we'd have seen Senna 16 points behind Schumacher in the championship. As everyone knows Schumacher was disqualified from the British GP (for an offence which Senna actually did himself in the past) and the Belgian GP and was subsequently banned from the Italian and Portuguese GPs. It's impossible to speculate exactly what would have happened had Senna not been killed at Imola, but my opinion is that Schumacher would not have been disqualified from the British GP. Hill started from pole (so I think it's safe to assume Senna would have had pole had he been alive) and it was because he was driving so slowly around he green flag lap that Schumacher overtook him. I don't think Senna would have done this, so Schumacher would not have been disqualified from the British, Italian and Portuguese GP. Another potential 30 points towards his title chances.

There are lots of ifs and buts involved in the "would Schumacher have been as successful if Senna hadn't died" argument but I believe that Schumacher would not have won as many races or championships, but that the ones he did win would have held a lot more worth. You're only as good as your competition and without doubt Schumacher would have liked more than anything to beat Senna to the title in 1994 and 1995 rather than Hill. 1994 would have been a close run thing, perhaps Schumacher wouldn't have won the title and perhaps he would, but with a 16 point lead in the championship after 3 races and a similar car to Senna in terms of pace I think he would have held on to win the title. 1995 Benetton had an arguably superior car to Williams which I don't think even Senna's brilliance could overcome.

Quote from mr grady :

did ms win the last two world championships? i didn't see massa fight him for the title...it was alonso who beat him fair and square.

Alonso and Renault beat Schumacher and Ferrari, yes.

Imho, Lewis has maximized his performance on each race. The fact that his driving hasn't been anything spectacular means nothing. The no. 1 thing that is required from race driver is to get the 100% out of the car at all times. As I see it, Hamilton has done quite well with that while drivers like Massa or Räikkönen get it right only when they gets to start from pole and doesn't need to battle for the positions. Alonso is quite good in that consistency as well but Lewis seems to be a bit faster.

But with so much of the season still ahead it is kinda too early to tell who will eventually succeed and who will fail

Räikkönen and Alonso sure have lots to improve

Why are we still banging on about Schumacher? Are we saying Hamilton can't be considered a great driver until he makes a couple of attempts at knocking his championship rivals off the road in season finales? Or until he tries to secure pole in Monaco by parking his car at Rascasse?

Good riddance to the cheating ****.

Quote from mr grady :

....suddenly alonso is overrated? well sorry mate, but he was the guy that beat schumacher into retirement...

We all know Alonso had a lot of luck in the past two years. Yes, he is over over over over rated, and his luck has finished. We will see on this season

PD: I prefer Pedro de la Rosa, he is better in my opinion

Quote from amp88 :

...in 2005 and 2006 Schumacher was beaten more by other cars and lack of reliability than he was other driver's talent.

Only if you look at it with rose tinted glasses.

2006 Schumacher had everything in his favour to win the title but threw it away. Alonso had more car problems than Schumacher through out the season and some very weird penalties, especially the yellow flag one where the car practically stopped to let him past... The Ferrari/Bridgestone combination last year was easily the quickest most of the season.

Which driver stuffed it in the wall at Melbourne? Who was the one who got himself involved in contact at Hungary? And generally was driving very poor and unfairly, overtaking Pedro by missing the chicane and for the FIA to change the rule to make that legal... Who parked it in Monaco to ruin other drivers laps? All missed opportunities that he could have easily picked up the points he needed.

So to even suggest that Schumacher lost purely because of the car over talent is quite frankly rubbish. I think Schumacher was an exceptional driver but a flawed one. He just had an attitude of winning at all costs and if that meant taking other drivers off the road then so be it, and that is the first thing that pops into mind when I hear his name. Not only that but always wanted a poorer driver in the No. 2 car, never wanted a challenge.

I think Hamilton is doing well, but I'm not screaming from the roof tops about it. The performance was to be expected. He has had the best of everything since he was 12 and has had more mileage in the McLaren than Alonso. So far 4 races in, he is doing well but what we need to see is how he continues that as the season goes on. We saw in Sepang that when Alonso had the car hooked up he was away from Lewis, some 20 seconds up the road.

I still think Raikkonen and Alonso are finding their feet in their new teams. Getting used to a whole new car/environment/tyre etc. For example, look at how different Alonso drives the McLaren to the Renault, he is so much smoother. So I guess the Renault suited the more aggressive style, hence why he did it and probably why Fisi driving a lot smoother very rarely saw Alonso for the whole race.

I'm really happy for Coulthard, these last two races he has really been on the ball!

Quote from keiran :

Only if you look at it with rose tinted glasses.

...

@mr grady...pay attention, that's how you should put your thoughts forward, not just by asking a couple of questions.

I'll reply in full tomorrow

Quote from NitroNitrous :

We all know Alonso had a lot of luck in the past two years. Yes, he is over over over over rated, and his luck has finished. We will see on this season

PD: I prefer Pedro de la Rosa, he is better in my opinion

Right, you list all the luck Alonso had in 06 to back that statement up, as IMO it's utter rubbish. I count more problems for Alonso over his rival that year, Schumacher.

I could say Schumacher is 7WDC because of luck but that would be lies. Sure it seemed like he had a lot of luck but when it comes down to it, you make your own luck.

As I've said Alonso didn't become 2 WDC and land a nice big pay cheque this year because of luck. What I've seen this season was him kicking Lewis' ass in Sepang, by some 20 secs. So far Hamilton has failed to beat Alonso by that sort of margin, 12 secs being the largest gap so far. You also have to remember the floor was pretty badly damaged and a bit of the front wing if I remember correctly after his off at T1.

Pedro? He never impressed me during his time in a race seat, wasn't he the one who put a Jag road car on its roof thinking he was driving an F1 car...

So far it's Alonso 2, Hamilton 2. 2 points between them, I for one really look forward to these two battling it out and along with the Ferraris it could be a close season. It's been a long time since I can remember their being 4 potential race winners in F1.

Quote from keiran :

Pedro? He never impressed me during his time in a race seat, wasn't he the one who put a Jag road car on its roof thinking he was driving an F1 car...

Wasn't that Antonio Pizzonia while he was with Jaguar?

Although I agree, Pedro never looked that special.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Wasn't that Antonio Pizzonia while he was with Jaguar?

Although I agree, Pedro never looked that special.

Ah yes, you're right. Easy to muddle them up though

Quote from tristancliffe :

Sorry, but that three wide pass at Silverstone would have been slated if anyone but 'Britain's Golden Boy' had done it. Forcing two cars onto the grass at 170mph to get past is not something that 'top' drivers do. The Istanbul one was good, but the Silverstone one was decidely rough and unclean. People have been banned for better driving in LFS.

The thing that did it for me wasn't just the Silverstone 3 wide pass, which was wreckless to say the least but his dreadful recovery from a first lap spin in front of a number of other cars, in the race where he did his comeback to second. He's been destined to a McLaren seat since his karting days, they've invested a huge amount of money into him and it makes great PR to stick a good, but still immature and nothing stunning, driver into the best car on the grid and let him pick up a few podiums along with the double world title. If he had been around in F1 for a few years nobody would be interested. I reckon on the current line up of front runners Hamilton/Kubica/Massa all have potential to be good drivers but all have to mature and none of them are going to be legendary. Raikonen is faster and on pace will beat Alonso all else being equal but he's too hard on the cars and probably also partly responsible for his appalling reliability last year. Alonso is a better all rounder in the right machinery with nobody truly special on form in a competitive car he can win.

Raikonen/Alonso/Hamilton/Button were all committed to an F1 drive pretty soon into their F1 career, getting a drive in F1 these days is all about PR potential and being popular with the F1 establishment, driving skill is a secondary requirement. Mansell was probably the last driver ever to have been successful who hadn't been accepted by the F1 establishment (even after getting the title he was never really accepted until he proved himself in the states) and wasn't pre-destined to be the next big thing.

Completely agree with keiran here. People who say Alonso was lucky quite simply haven't bothered to look at the actual data to see who made more mistakes and who had more technical problems.

But back to the Hamilton topic. At the end of last year Paffett, Hamilton and de la Rosa were in a kind of shootout for the second McLaren seat. Does anyone here think that either Paffett or de la Rosa would be leading the WDC now, had they been chosen? Personally I don't think even Paffett would have been able to do it and PDLR wouldn't have even come close. What did he achieve when he had a few races last year?

Another thing I just noticed: how come most of the people that aren't exited about Hamilton are from the UK? Are you letting James Allen annoy into not wanting to jump on the bandwaggon?

Link to Drivers Database I Found

http://www.driverdb.com/racingdriver282.html

Personally I'm looking forward to Monaco now, in fact I can't wait we all know it's a unique track and another test, also that Lewis has been there twice before with a 100% win ratio makes it interesting to say the least.

I honestly think once he gets his first GP win that he will be able to string a couple together as I do think he has another gear left but sub consciously he may need to break that final barrier of winning his first race before we all see his true potential

Or is that last paragraph just pure Bollox ........ I'll let you decide

I caught this on Speedchannel last night. Was some good racing on it for sure. LFS Needs a track like Barcelona.

Thanks for the link, CELTIC100.

Might as well wade into the Lewis debate...

I think he has shown that he is a fantastic driver. I rate Alonso as the best all-around driver on the grid, and Lewis has beaten him fair and square twice now in only 4 races.

Remember some of the amazing speed Alonso pulled out of the Minardi back in the day? And of course his comprehensive thrashing of Fisichella, a man who many rated the second best driver in F1 after Schumacher and a man who had NEVER been beaten by his teammate.

Lewis is getting ridiculous amounts of hype from the tabloid and mainstream media in the UK who have been whipped into a frenzy by not only his pace but also his youth, looks, "ethnicity" and his polite and humble manner.

But it is unfair to hold this against him. He has done an outstanding job so far this reason, regardless of the hype and regardless of whether you feel that the circumstances surrounding his current success have been favourable.

I look forward to the four-way battle for the title continuing throughout the season!

tbh, my personal opinion is that f1 is far too technical for drivers to duke it out and see who's the best. I keep hearing how cars suddenly go from crap to good in the same stint etc., it's just not a field where everything's level enough to pit a driver against another and say which one's King. Not to mention that it's soo difficult to get close to other cars and follow them (even if they can, overheating etc.. /yawn). It'd be fun to see the pros in faster GP2 cars and see how they do

Quote from sam1600 :

Remember some of the amazing speed Alonso pulled out of the Minardi back in the day? And of course his comprehensive thrashing of Fisichella, a man who many rated the second best driver in F1 after Schumacher

Eh? Who said that?

Sorry, I've just got this image in my head of a confused old man, mistaking the noises from his television for the voices of his relatives.

If you can't hear what someone is saying on a message board, does that mean you are deaf, or blind?

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

tbh, my personal opinion is that f1 is far too technical for drivers to duke it out and see who's the best. I keep hearing how cars suddenly go from crap to good in the same stint etc., it's just not a field where everything's level enough to pit a driver against another and say which one's King. Not to mention that it's soo difficult to get close to other cars and follow them (even if they can, overheating etc.. /yawn). It'd be fun to see the pros in faster GP2 cars and see how they do

Yes, but F1 is not about seeing who is the best driver; it's about who has the best race team and the driver is one (very important) part of that.

If you want to watch a driving competition then watch spec racing.

Driver skill still plays a huge part in F1, however; in fact, I think most people underestimate the role of the driver in F1, seemingly because they become confused by the many other variables involved in determining a winner each race.

But that's the whole appeal of F1 for a lot of people.

Quote from amp88 :

@mr grady...pay attention, that's how you should put your thoughts forward, not just by asking a couple of questions.

I'll reply in full tomorrow

sorry, i didnt realise this was the high court m'lurd