Except for the number of cars on different laps, and the changes due to pit stops vs actual passes, etc. It could be difficult.

I agree it would be nice if the pace of the safety car were just 10-15 mph faster to keep from the icey tires. There was a whole nother set of issues though as this was used at south city, and inconsistent safety car pace really caused major incidents.

Quote from srdsprinter :

Except for the number of cars on different laps, and the changes due to pit stops vs actual passes, etc. It could be difficult.

I agree it would be nice if the pace of the safety car were just 10-15 mph faster to keep from the icey tires. There was a whole nother set of issues though as this was used at south city, and inconsistent safety car pace really caused major incidents.

Perhaps the limiter vs. no limiter debate could be handled separately for each track. It'd make a lot of sense to use it at South City, not so much at Westhill.

The good stuff:

Not just some, but every team now knows about the rules when to overtake on a SC restart because the rules have been updated/added.
The problem about beeing marshall AND racer has been taken note of as well.
We really can see, that you put an effort in this racing series.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I think the problem (from the marshals' point of view) with just putting the field under a full-course yellow is that it's very difficult to make sure that no one passes under the yellow

A full-course yellow instead of using a SC would IMO solve most of the problems actually.

If marshalls are concerned about the monitoring of overtaking cars during a full-course yellow: The Racer/car/teams will notice and can complain later on. But then ease the penalty given. A 1 position drop would be too hard of a punishement.

Pls. realise that there has been problems with the SC´s for a very long time now. Very good argumentation against using a SC has been posted. The lack of good posts FOR the usage of a SC is so obviouse ( to me at least ).

R4ptor, DK : "The safety car is basically a mobile T1 all over the track."
Posted 22nd April 2007

That´s what it is. I totally agree. I might add this under my signature from now on.

Something else to realise:
A SC at a speed of 80 km/h will have the racer 10 cars behind drive a much much lower speed...

Anyways:
Race with the SC for this season and let´s see how the next rounds will turn out to be. But pls., before planning for the next season - have a look at all these posts once more.

Regards
[TDRT] TheDanishRacingTeam

I'm really of the belief the 'issues' caused by the safety car are shortcomings of our own driving, not vice-versa.

If we are all aware of the rules and drive responsibly there should be no problems. Unfortunatly, we have not done so yet.

SC adds strategy to race planning, when would you pit, how would it effect your strategy. It also pushes people to stay on the lead lap as long as possible to last till a SC.

While it hasn't been needed yet, there are many places for cars to get stuck off track. If someone nudges you onto an embankment on lap 1, do you want your race to be over (i don't, my teamates would be pissed)? If not, you need full course yellow, safety car and a push car.

Safety Car is the only thing that seperates a 4 hour endurance races from a 4 hour hot-lapping contest (currently).

I do see a lot of the reasons behind people not liking the SC, but it's simply what makes this league different from any other series. The SC may be a mobile T1 but theres one thing about T1, you know it's coming, so you slow down for it. The same for the SC, theres a big message on all of your screens that says, "Yeallow Flag Safety Car Deployed", at this point all drivers should slow down to more careful speeds in expectation of the safety car but what actually happens is everybody takes no notie of this message and speeds around the track as they normally would until they hit, and i mean HIT, the back of the SC que, then they complain about it. As stu said, the safety car is what sperates this 4 hour race from 4 hours of hotlapping, the safety car creates an element of strategy in this league a long with initial pace. mI agree there was one moment in the last round where the SC maybe wasn't needed, and i admit i was being too Pro-active at that point. If all of the drivers fully read and understand the rules then there will be no problems, but the problem is many of the drivers do not, thus the ones that do, loose out because of their mistakes.

Quote from srdsprinter :

I'm really of the belief the 'issues' caused by the safety car are shortcomings of our own driving, not vice-versa.

If we are all aware of the rules and drive responsibly there should be no problems. Unfortunatly, we have not done so yet.

If you would have spend some time on watching the replay rather than posting inhere, you´d know that me and my teammate didn´t have trouble at all to safely follow the SC ...

...exept the time where some car all flying from behind crashed us. Due to this happening, we on our next pit had some repairs which cost us "some" time getting the car repaired in the pits as well as from now on had to do stints longer as planned which we knew the tires at normal race speed weren´t capable of......

You write : "If we are all aware of the rules.."

For the upcoming race better get a WHITE number and not a black one. A mashall noticed it at a time and told your team as well...like other teams you didn´t have to stop to change it, right?

As I stated before I´m posting for the next round - this one is to learn.

Quote from BenjiMC :

If all of the drivers fully read and understand the rules then there will be no problems, but the problem is many of the drivers do not, thus the ones that do, loose out because of their mistakes.

My car ( #21 ) didn´t make faults behind the SC at no time. See my post before for what actually happened. My point is that the rules might be good in theory but in the head of a race hard to follow for some racers.

Let´s wait for round 5 to come.

Quote from [TDRT] Spøgelset :

My car ( #21 ) didn´t make faults behind the SC at no time. See my post before for what actually happened. My point is that the rules might be good in theory but in the head of a race hard to follow for some racers.

Let´s wait for round 5 to come.

A lot of drivers are too anxious when driving at sc periods, this is what causes accidents, yellow flag means be careful. Not speed around at normal race pace until you hit the sc que.

Quote from [TDRT] Spøgelset :

My car ( #21 ) didn´t make faults behind the SC at no time. See my post before for what actually happened. My point is that the rules might be good in theory but in the head of a race hard to follow for some racers.

Let´s wait for round 5 to come.

What you're advocating is that the league cater to the lowest common denominator--drivers who are incapable of understanding the rules and/or following them. I think this is a bad tactic for a league that wants to present itself professionally.

Perhaps a stiff penalty is in order for those who fail to slow down for the SC and cause accidents?

I agree with you, though, that we should finish out this season with roughly the same format it started with (tweaked between rounds for improvement). If by the end of season 1 we don't have a handle on the problems at hand, we can consider alternatives.

Quote from [TDRT] Spøgelset :

R4ptor, DK : "The safety car is basically a mobile T1 all over the track."
Posted 22nd April 2007

That´s what it is. I totally agree. I might add this under my signature from now on.

Haha

Quote from srdsprinter :

I'm really of the belief the 'issues' caused by the safety car are shortcomings of our own driving, not vice-versa.

Same here. I like the idea of having a SC around - the stuff with mobile T1 was said after the race on South City and is therefor not how I see any SC's in a league. You (Spøgelset) have had to be there to see how extreme some of the (lacking) performance was.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Perhaps a stiff penalty is in order for those who fail to slow down for the SC and cause accidents?

I agree.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

What you're advocating is that the league cater to the lowest common denominator--drivers who are incapable of understanding the rules and/or following them. I think this is a bad tactic for a league that wants to present itself professionally.

Perhaps a stiff penalty is in order for those who fail to slow down for the SC and cause accidents?

I agree with you, though, that we should finish out this season with roughly the same format it started with (tweaked between rounds for improvement). If by the end of season 1 we don't have a handle on the problems at hand, we can consider alternatives.

Of course it should be penalized to drive up in the back of the SC field and hitting the cars there!..as it is penalized to do so in all kind of races.

Quote from r4ptor :

Haha



Same here. I like the idea of having a SC around - the stuff with mobile T1 was said after the race on South City and is therefor not how I see any SC's in a league. You (Spøgelset) have had to be there to see how extreme some of the (lacking) performance was.



I agree.

As for pentalties, I believe the standard drive-thru might be a little bit weak for our 4 hour races.

The fear just isn't there of the pentalties. It's a shame the option isn't there, but I believe a 1-lap stop-and-hold pentalty would be a much stronger deterent to breaking the rules.

@ for SC infractions, I've been the victim of a few, and i've spun myself out once (). At South City I got NAILED from behind, but sadly it wasn't spotted by a marshall. Playing the rules to the least common denominator is not the answer though.

If we hold each other accountable, and sternly penalize infractions the issues we see should dissolve.

Penalties should only be allowed to serve under green and NOT when SC is out imo.

I noticed that at the Oval race when I got overtaken by a driver just after SC came out. He received a DT and served it right away under yellow, then he closes up behind me where he was before.

My suggestion is to freeze all penalties under yellow so they have to be served under green. Otherwise they don't really make sense to me. A driver who deceides to serve his penalty under yellow should receive another one of the next higher level.


Regards

Droemel

I agree. we will take that on board for the next race.

Don't understand the reasoning/need for that change...

But,

If a drive-thru has to be served w/in 3 laps, it could conflict with the new "no DT under SC".

Quote from srdsprinter :

If a drive-thru has to be served w/in 3 laps, it could conflict with the new "no DT under SC".

That's why I wrote "freeze the penalties"

in which case exceptions can be made.

Woo yay for 3 pages of reading.

1)I could marshal and would be more then happy to but conflicting time zones is why i cant do it.

2) Safty Car: God if i could drive in a league just for the SC i would, thats a selling factor for me because a safty car can win or loose a race for drivers, and not using that SC period can cost you the race i would know.

3) Penilties, i agree that under yellow they should be frozen as it doesnt serve is place, i suggest if its possible and there arent more then 1 person, hand it out just as the SC pulls off, and for DT as well they can make or break a race and is just a standard penilty, it happens in V8 Supercars all the time.

4) I dont have a 4 yet unless something else is sparked :P I hope it does get broadcasted id love to watch the action and im a follower of the series, now wheres my userbar :P

Hey, thanks for the suggestions!

We're working on a broadcasting deal with ASR TV (same guys who do BOTT) and it should be in place before the next (final) race at AS North.

I can't wait for season two...

This has already grown into an amazing series. Some reworking of some rules and this will be a premier 4-hour series.

Anyway, ***perhaps*** a suggestion could be made for 1 double distance race per year. It could be neat to have a signature race.

Also, I love that this is one of the few series that has the balls to put the GTRs on the Fern Bay Track. As our GTR's are a sort of hybrid GT3-GT2, they don't need to spend all their time on sanitized smooth high-speed circuits (ALMS runs 600+HP prototypes around Mosport - a track that is similarly challenging).

Suggestions:

<Officials shall not be on a public voice chat (ventrilo, teamspeak, etc) with any race participants or teams.

<In race chatting thru LFS chat should be allowed with restrictions such as "caution#15 damaged moving to pits"
In other words no BS chatting. It's already been proven that you cannot see in car notices if there is a yellow or blue flag.

I mentioned in the Round 8 Objections thread that the use of RCMs (Race Control Messages) that show up across the middle of the screen may be better than regular chat messages. They still show up if someone has used Shift-F to clear the screen of messages.

Anyway, I've done the scripting work in the attached ZIP. Included is an image of how to set it up in game. Only admins can use it, since it is RCMs.

Unzip to a folder of your choice, and then move the "XXXXX.lfs" files to your data\script folder.

Cheers.

That sounds good.

The IGTC forum (This forum) is a big, big mess. You can`t find the information you need, if you do not come here, on a daily basis.

You definately need to have a sticky, which contains ALL the important information, for the comming race. It is not my job, to search the forum, to find out that you have changed the starting time of the next race.

Furthermore - Important news, should be messaged or mailed to the teamleaders of the participating teams.

I`m also rather upset with the way you punish a wrong name or an incorrect skin, and let people do so many critisable manouvers, while you punish a wrong sign.

It is years ago, since Ilast participated in a race, where blueflag lappers had so little knowledge of how to pass correctly

My car was one of the slowest and I got a lot of those flags. So use your time making the race better, and let the unimportant things lay, untill the race is over. Then you can punish people for not using the rigth skin or nametag.

So :

Easy access to the important information.

Race and qalify starts at the announced time.

Raceadmins goes after the racers, which are not following the racerules, which directly influences on the ongoing race, and do not use to much time with signs and skins.

If you want to use safetycars, then you gotta let the spoiled cars stay on track, and have people moving them "outta bounce" That`s realistic If you call a smashed or "on the roof laying car" in as spectator, then loose the safetycar.

And announce clearly, if you are going to use specially race rules. Here I am thinking of the bumperrace on the oval.

Finally. This is not a game. This is the worlds best race simulator. Let`s keep it as that, so we don`t end up with a citydriving alike event, when this simulator was build for racing

EDIT :
Ad1 - Not to many fancy rules