Quote from geeman1 :

This I don't like. The realism level should be the same on every server.

Well I am with you on the credit system and I to would like the one mode accross accross all servers. But I'm not so sure everyone would like that I know a few people that don't play LFS anymore since S2 was released because they liked how in S1 it was just about the racing and with S2 there was too much other shit too worry about I liked S1 alot too but I also like to have to think about alot of other shit while I'm racing so bring on realism for me

At the moment with the majority of servers having no wind setting and there being no other real variables on the track or environment every race is pretty much a hotlap session. I think when there is alot more dynamic variable in play the focus will become more on racing rather than hotlaping.

I bet we'll see a ton of people like Hamilton during qualifyling where he wen't off onto those curbs and it ripped up the entire bottom of his car, and like Kimi during Monaco qualifying how he wen't over a curb and it ripped apart his steering column. It will definitely change all of LFS and the entire mentality.

I'm just afraid for the demo servers; one wrecker and there goes a few people out of the race instantly. I mean, the demo users make up the majority of everyone here, and sometimes are quite supportive of LFS no matter what their reason is for not buying S2, something should be done to be able to decrease all of the wreckers on demo, so that the demo users can get a more positive look at the game wrather than thinking "If I get S2, it will probably be the same crashing but with faster cars."

I agree i think there improve the game for the better, but there is a limit we can take it before the games stops being fun.

I see myself a decent enough driver, But i still make the odd mistake here and there. I'm not super human so the odd touch of a wall, or misjudging of a braking point, is bound to happen. Even the best of you guys must glance a wall during a race. Certainly off the start theres so many ways you can take damage from other drivers. Why should i keep getting penalized because of someone else stupidity?

The cutting of FE kerbs is just horrid, but if you want to keep with the front runners you have to do it.. For me it totally ruins the fell of fern bay The S bends are areas in which the racing should tighten up with giving the racer behind a chance to close in if u make a small mistake, then have a sprint up out the the s bends up the following straight.


People who are retarded enough to smash into the back of you into T1, use you or your back end as the brakes into a braking zones, or use walls as aids to get them round bends, anyone who cuts curbs thats would destroy a cars suspension in real life should all be penalized imo..

Quote from XCNuse :

I'm just afraid for the demo servers; one wrecker and there goes a few people out of the race instantly. I mean, the demo users make up the majority of everyone here, and sometimes are quite supportive of LFS no matter what their reason is for not buying S2, something should be done to be able to decrease all of the wreckers on demo, so that the demo users can get a more positive look at the game wrather than thinking "If I get S2, it will probably be the same crashing but with faster cars."

I'd like to see something done in this regard also. I think it would be good if there were two levels to demo; a totally open mode like it is now and another mode for demo servers which require a demo or S2 account to connect. In the second mode you would see if someone is S2 licenced and then prospective customers could ask advice or see the S2 drivers behaviour and decide to buy an LFS S2 license accordingly.

I say this from a perspective of using demo more often than S2 and actively seeking out and helping newbies when I can, many of whom have gone on to buy S2

I think some sort of "Demo licensed" account could help many of the demo problems.

I too am worried about the effect that realistic damage would have on the non-hardcore part of the LFS community. As much as I'm not a fan of the subcultures that make up large parts of the LFS userbase, they are a big part of the population. Perhaps we'll draw in a lot of GPL/NR2003 guys with realistic damage to displace the more NFS-ish crowd, but it's a little scary.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I too am worried about the effect that realistic damage would have on the non-hardcore part of the LFS community. As much as I'm not a fan of the subcultures that make up large parts of the LFS userbase, they are a big part of the population. Perhaps we'll draw in a lot of GPL/NR2003 guys with realistic damage to displace the more NFS-ish crowd, but it's a little scary.

What subcultures do you actually mean? I guess you are talking about the city/whatever drivers/cruisers. Well, they moaned about the new reset but got on with it. If you crash your real car, it will be totaled, I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be like that on the cruise servers too.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I too am worried about the effect that realistic damage would have on the non-hardcore part of the LFS community. As much as I'm not a fan of the subcultures that make up large parts of the LFS userbase, they are a big part of the population. Perhaps we'll draw in a lot of GPL/NR2003 guys with realistic damage to displace the more NFS-ish crowd, but it's a little scary.

Personally, I think that having a range of server level options to suit both camps would be a good thing.

I'd much rather race in a 'full damage' server against people who have the same mindset as myself when racing. i.e. consistency and finishing the race (OK, so I'm slow) as opposed to online hotlapping and crashing every second lap. I wouldn't want to race on a full damage server with people like this.

I would hope that most of the community lean towards racing with more realistic damage, but that's fine if there are servers for those who don't.

The current no car reset is already starting to tone down how people drive which is a good thing.

I think car damage that caused tyre rub, gearbox/engine faiilure, loss of downforce etc would add loads to LFS. Yes the less hardcore will complain and ask for the additions to be server options in the same way as happened with tyre wear, heat, damage, kb aids, no car reset etc etc

The same people that hammered their tyres in S1 will cause gearbox/engine damage when better damage is added until they learn to drive better

Live track is the other big thing I think needs to be included ASAP. Get out of the race line and fight for grip.

A friend of mine believes that he has encountered engine/gearbox damage while shifting rapidly from a high gear to a low gear.

Is this possible?

The engine can get damaged by overrevving. Just go a fairly high speed in any car and then put it into 1st gear. You've now successfully converted your engine to a popcorn machine

Thanks for that, avoided a big argument

Quote from Marc Ainley :

A friend of mine believes that he has encountered engine/gearbox damage while shifting rapidly from a high gear to a low gear.

Is this possible?

yea the last few races iv had my engine ended up sounding like that. (dont flame)
i think that real damage would be brilliant for lfs, but just imagine t1 on conedodgers 1. aaaaaaaaaargh. lol. thered only be 3 cars left in the race.

Quote from Captain Slow :

.....but just imagine t1 on conedodgers 1. aaaaaaaaaargh. lol. thered only be 3 cars left in the race.

What's the problem with T1 on Conedodgers? I started 30th or so (last) in 2 races and was 5th by the second corner in the 2 races I ran. Nothing wrong with that, LOL.

All talked about here needs to happen. LFS wants to be a true racing simulator, not a game. It is for those of us who do not have the means to go out on the track for real. If you can't race with proper engine damage, aero, body, suspension damage, then so be it. You go play a game where you don't have to worry about those things. It's stated right on the website. "What is LFS: LFS S2 is a serious racing simulator. No arcade modes, no steering aids - YOU have to do the driving."

As a "serious racing simulator", all aspects of true racing must be implemented. That includes all types of damage and not options to turn it off. With the option of turning aspects of real racing off, the "serious" gets thrown out the window.

+1 to NightHawk. It rarely ceases to amaze me the amount of people who continue to want LFS to be just another game.

I'd be willing to bet, if LFS had a "real" damage model, and CD's turned off mid-race join, T1, Lap 1 would be a very different place.

Quote from srdsprinter :

I'd be willing to bet, if LFS had a "real" damage model, and CD's turned off mid-race join, T1, Lap 1 would be a very different place.

Yes, a place of half destroyed cars which actually can't magically continue driving this time

Quote from farcar :

My thoughts are that when realistic engine & suspension damage are implemented,there'll be a revolution driving behavior (especially online). A 'drive it like you own it' mentality will be forced on everyone. One false down-change may end your race, and hitting that chicane like you used will bend your steering like it should.

Everyone will be forced to drive with some of the same fears and cautions of racers in the real world. I can't wait for the day.

I think this would only work if people "kept the damage" so maybe you could only have each car repaired once a week or something similar, like real time repairs similar to what you get in some rally games. However this would put greater restrictions on the game and people may dislike it for that. Also any wreckers would also ruin several hours of racing whilst you had the car repaired!

I do think it would be better to have more realistic damage, but then you should also include 'driver damage' or medical condition - which is a pretty stupid idea that your driver could die or loose his legs!!!

James

I totally agree with the suspensio and engine damage auggestion.

Concerning the "drive it like you own it"-side discussion: IMHO the most simple and presumably easiest to code would be just another server option: disable "return to pits". That way, if you're crashed, you're out of the race until it restarts. Also, with wrecked cars staying on the track, it makes racing much more thrilling. Now if the wrecks would stay even if the pilot left, that would be even better.

The marshalls would at least take the wreck to the side of the track.

Btw, did Scawen ever say anything about why the engine damage was made less sensitive in S2 compared to S1?

Quote from Linsen :

Btw, did Scawen ever say anything about why the engine damage was made less sensitive in S2 compared to S1?

I'm curious why it was implemented this way in the first place? Doesn't feel like it's a feature that is fully planned. Then again, when it already exists, it shouldn't be hard to make more sensitive for flatshifting, ridiculously fast downshifting etc.

All these arcade features (you know what I mean) obviously have been in LFS for too long if some people are already basicly saying "no" for realism

Quote from xpjames :

I do think it would be better to have more realistic damage, but then you should also include 'driver damage' or medical condition - which is a pretty stupid idea that your driver could die or loose his legs!!!

Everyone knows that "death cam" in GPL but in Mafia (that game released in 2002, not sim though) had driver damage... if you crashed something you could die if you health bar went to zero

Quote from Glenn67 :

I look forward to dynamic racing lines, marbles on track, gravel and dirt contaminating track from offs and cars returning to the circiut, water and oil from crashes, dynamic weather i.e. rain, dry and varying temperatures etc. etc....

I agree, these things will make a huge difference.

In the short term, radiator damage seems like the most simple and effective way to change driver behavior... If the front of your car hitting another car or the scenery causes the engine to overheat and die, it will make a big difference to current pack mentality.... also if a trip across the grass causes the radiator intakes to fill up with turf and also results in overheating, that should help to prevent serious cutting... I think it would be more useful and easier to implement than more detailed accurate suspension damage. Stopping folks from taking as much kerb will just cause them to adjust their lines - it won't change overall behaviour really, not like radiator damage would IMO.. (Of course, I would love to see more detailed suspension damage just for the immersion factor )

For the aero cars, a head on shunt or trip accross the grass should have an effect on your downforce (IIRC it currently doesn't?)

cheers

Col

I think..that..

Well.

The first thing that came to my mind was-

"There goes 80% of LFS drifters, mainly mouse and keyboard users"

Ah well

Quote from Cr!t!calDrift :

"There goes 80% of LFS drifters, mainly mouse and keyboard users"

Go where? As long as drifting is possible, it is possible in LFS. It may get harder, but it won't get impossible.

What's the point making a simulation if you make it for mouse users?