Ibtl ?

It's all these runoff areas they have started to put around the tracks. That chicane use to have grass around it instead of the run-off so what Alonso did yesterday would have put Nick out of the race or severely damaged his car. I think Alonso simply thought i'll dive in there and he will take to the run-off keeping the second apex tight. It like he relied on the run-off to make the move. I believe that the move Alonso pulled off was wrong only because he did not leave enough room at the second apex. If he left a car width at the second apex it would have been perfectly legit but he didn't and simply forced Heidfeld off the track. I think he was just getting fed up as it wasn't a good race for him. Suddenly the world champion is comin under pressure..

Quote from Madman_CZ :

Suddenly the world champion is comin under pressure..

From a rookie too!

As much as I refuse to be taken in by the silly hype surrounding Hamilton, who has only done two note worthy things in races (other than not crash), I was more impressed by him yesterday than I was when he was doing better. Seeing how he didn't overdrive to stay with the Ferraris, or moan and complain much afterwards says more about him that lucking into podiums in the fastest car in F1.

He's still getting a huge ego though - calling backmarkers monkeys and saying McLaren has two great drivers isn't exactly humble...

That move was perfectly acceptable.

If a driver doesn't make those kind of moves then they'll never make it to F1 and they'll probably end up in some 1980's B-rate F3 series or summit!!!!

can someone close this thread it's bordering on getting nasty!!! lol

Quote from Intrepid :

If a driver doesn't make those kind of moves then they'll never make it to F1 and they'll probably end up in some 1980's B-rate F3 series or summit!!!!

Enough with the personal insults, very low.


Anyway, when I watched the race live the move seemed a bit odd but when watching this on-board clip you can see Alonso had great overlap. I think it doesn't matter if it's a chicane or not, corner is a corner and overlap means you choose the line and Heidfield being outside would mean he had no rights. Well, of course the debate here is if Alonso should have been a gentleman and left some room but that wouldn't have changed the outcome as Alonso had the inside for the next corner in either case. Right or wrong I don't know or actually care because it was an OVERTAKE! Rare thing in today's F1.

And Kimi, who apparently sucks and can't drive won.

Or even running a second rate karting website!

Quote :

If Nazi Germany was okay by lots of people, then what makes us English people who don't believe in certain things know best?

More guns. Which ironically, is exactly how forums work too.

Quote from keiran :

I'm not wanting to get involved with this argument as it's getting a little bit silly but I do want to point out the sort of karts these guys are talking about couldn't be more different from your lawn more powered hire kart, that tops out at 40mph and weigh more than a racing shifter kart . Not to mention they are built ready for a petrol version of dodgems.

If you want to see proper karting, youtube/google/motors TV etc all have coverage and you'll see what these guys are saying. I want to make it clear that no one itentially forces the person on the outside off the track because the person on the outside realises he has lost the corner so doesn't leave himself in that position. Otherwise you'll end up losing 3 places, easily and in the mix of things you'll end up either hitting the 4th kart in the train while you try get back in line or drive yourself off the road. In this situation Nick knew he had a tarmac run off area, had that been grass or a wall he'd have backed out before the first apex. The biggest difference is in a competitive field of drivers, you can often have 4 or 5 karts in one train nose to tail. Even if you just miss one apex, 2 karts will nip past, or at least try. It's just the nature of having so much mechanical grip that it really does take very good race craft to do well.

Too many people make the mistake of comparing 4 stroke hire lawn mores to proper 2 stroke karts which aren't built to withstand hitting walls. What ever you want to believe people are just as cautious in overtaking in a kart as they are in single seaters. I've only raced one guy who was rather stupid and lets just say he got what was coming to him and became a lot more cautious after the scare.

Contact in a kart can result in a very heavy accident, real karts don't have near the same amount of plastic as hire karts. I've seen countless karts go end over end, and some where the driver has got trapped under them. The most spectacular being when a kart went barrel rolling end over end, more than I could count. The driver was luckily thrown clean out and was just a little shaken.

I've just kissed the rear tyre of a kart in front of me and it sent the front end of my kart up in the air, the majority of my vision very briefly was of the sky. I've had karts go over the top of me and hit my arm, hand etc.

There is still a lot of danger in contact and your a lot more exposed than a single seater, so I'd say you are more at risk of getting hurt.

In the end, the way I see it is if a driver has clearly got an overlap into the corner, there is very little point going the long way. If I go the long way in LFS and run out of road because of the guy on the inside I don't blame them, I'll blame my self for running my self off the road.

I just can't quite see what's so hard to understand that it sparks such a debate... The same thing happens in every single race series in the world, it's racing...

Yeah i agree mostly with what you say, i accept that hire-karts are nowhere near pro karts. Ive had my fair share of accidents in hire-karts, getting chucked out the kart as it rolled over (was a huge achievment getting the things to tip) so i know the dangers Didnt really think of the pro karts, i quickly typed that up.

I agree with the alonso move, he had lots of overlap and basically had the corner, he didnt do anything particularly wrong. the only thing im arguing about is that the karters here think that racing a kart is exactly the same as racing a 800bhp Formula 1 car, and then when somebody dares to disagree they resort to petty and personal insults.

Take your pills everyone?

As much as I dislike Alonso, I think that move was perfectly fine - not brilliant, just brave - and there was no reason to leave the second apex open as Heidfeld wasn't there! No one's mentioned the scenario that Heidfeld had to choose the run-off area because he carried too much speed into the turn to make it through the outside line...?

My opinion above, now please don't shout at me... lol.

Alonso vs Heidfeld:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NT275TUX

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Size: 15.34 MB
Format: MPEG2 PS Interlaced
Aspect ratio: 16:9
Language: French :P

Quote from traxxion :

Take your pills everyone?

As much as I dislike Alonso, I think that move was perfectly fine - not brilliant, just brave - and there was no reason to leave the second apex open as Heidfeld wasn't there! No one's mentioned the scenario that Heidfeld had to choose the run-off area because he carried too much speed into the turn to make it through the outside line...?

My opinion above, now please don't shout at me... lol.

I think you're right Traxxion. I'm won't say I hate Alonso, but I don't like his attitude, but I cheered when he passed Heidfeld there! Just great racing! From both drivers btw, Heidfeld defended Alonso very well, and Alonso passed him very well.

Quote :

That chicane use to have grass around it instead of the run-off so what Alonso did yesterday would have put Nick out of the race or severely damaged his car.

If it was grass than Heidfeld would have yielded the corner and taken the chicane, as it was, he had concrete to drive over so he chose to do that instead as it would cost him less time and give him a fighting chance to come back at Alonso before he scurried off into the distance.

Everyone arguing that Alonso was dangerous is forgetting two things:

1) Heidfeld elected to take the concrete route after loosing the corner because it was to his advantage rather than fully cede the corner and turn in after Alonso.

2) There are no pre-defined overtaking areas on a race track, all of a race track is a race track and you can pass anywhere - in fact, most passes happen when the driver in front makes a mistake. Not because the race track has a sign that says "pass here on the left, brake at chalk mark 75m from apex - defend on left and attempt switch back for next corner".

Alonso saw an opportunity and he took the first apex fair and square. He placed his car such a way that Heidfeld could not claim the second apex, rather than cede the corner Heidfeld elected not to fully decelerate and tuck in behind Alonso and instead cut the course looking for a quick repass. A move that was also entirely fair, given that the track has concrete there and allows him to use it when being passed.

Heidfeld engineered the situation where he crossed the concrete, he did so long before the first apex, and he was fully aware what he was doing and well within the rules to do so. Alonso's only crime is having big bollocks.

Alonso was awesome,incredible bravery and aggression.
Delighted to see Kimi back to form,hopefully he can come to terms with the Ferrari now.

:iagree:

(except the kimi bit.sorry, just not a ferrari fan)

I've seen enough, could a mod kindly close this topic to prevent further hassle please?

I expected matured opinions, but with "karters" involved, things have heated up, and its not good for any of us.

Please close this topic mods, much appreciated.

Quote from BigDave2967 :

I've seen enough, could a mod kindly close this topic to prevent further hassle please?

I expected matured opinions, but with "karters" involved, things have heated up, and its not good for any of us.

Please close this topic mods, much appreciated.

1. i requested this topic to be closed as well

2. please don't be as immature yourself as by using 'karters' as a derogatory slur to devalue, and try to discredit what we say for your own ends!

3. please close this thread mods

Quote :

:iagree:

(except the kimi bit.sorry, just not a ferrari fan)

Me neither but im a Kimi fan

Why should the topic be closed? TBH I have found this thread to be a great read, and the insults have been rather amusing, and certainly not what I'd call personal or offensive.

tristan said i was at the back of the grid.

my mum told me i was an accident a few minutes ago and that hurt alot less than what tristan said

Ouch.... lol

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

tristan said i was at the back of the grid.

my mum told me i was an accident a few minutes ago and that hurt alot less than what tristan said

Actually, I said that to 'Intrepid'. He hasn't challenged it.

Quote from tristancliffe :

And finally Kieran - you used to be sensible. But now you are only seeing 'The Rules'. Driver on the outside is wrong? No rights to corner? You cannot judge racing by the black and white application of rules. In this instance (going into a ~140mph(?) chicane already offline with another car poking his nose up the inside) he had just as much right.

Used to be sensible? Funny that my views of this have never been any different and has been the way I've raced in LFS and anything else.

There's where you are wrong and I'm surprised to see you say that. Schumacher was always stretching the rules to the limit and has done on many occasions left another driver out to dry, there is nothing wrong with doing such.

Quote :

Besides, I've never seen a single rule saying "The driver on the inside is allowed to run drivers off the road".

Where do I say that, what I've stated is if the driver on the outside ends up off the track it's there fault.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPdnGa_VKjE - Schumacher gives Coulthard no room and actually takes him out wide for good measure. Had Coulthard kept his foot in it Schumacher would have driven him off the road. So are you saying that's unfair driving?

A driver on the outside is off line and in danger of attack from following cars, hence why many drivers will never leave themselves in this position. They'll yield and get back in line, just as Nick would have done had he not had the concrete area. Except he had a nice choice to lose less time and give himself a fighting chance of fighting Alonso back.

If anyone should be complaining about how `dangerous` the move was, surely Nick would be? But in fact he is actually praising the battle and so is Alonso...

Poking his nose? Really Tristan, you're being pathetic. We all know you hate Alonso but your persistency in trying to slag him off at any moment is just incredible, how you can be bothered is beyond me.

Go watch the clips posted above, Alonso's car was pretty much fully past Nick before they even reached the apex... and Nick had no hope in hell of staying on the track had he even attempted to hit the second apex. He knew that himself and went straight across the run off well before Alonso had any chance of `running` him off the road.

Quote from Intrepid :

1. i requested this topic to be closed as well

2. please don't be as immature yourself as by using 'karters' as a derogatory slur to devalue, and try to discredit what we say for your own ends!

3. please close this thread mods

It was the only word I could think of, to describe you, but if you took that the wrong way, tough titties. I wasn't implying you that way in a negative manner.