Lfscar Race 6: KYOTO +130° on Monday 30rd of July, 18.15 UTC

Qualifying:
20min. open Qualifying (NO BUMPDRAFTING ALLOWED),
11 Lap Sprint Race
NO TIRE RESTRICTION


Kyoto Oval, 130 Laps
Full Caution Rules
R2 TIRE RESTRICTION
(not using R2 tires during the race will cause a disqualification, either during or after the race


CAUTION RULES:
====================================================
- HIT THE PITLIMITER
- PITS ARE CLOSED IN LAP 1 OF A CAUTION FOR EVERYONE!!!!
- AFTER THE PACECAR CATCHES THE LEADER, PITS ARE OPEN
- PACECAR SPEED IS 80km/h
- CLOSE GAPS ON COMMAND AND HIT LIMITER AGAIN WHEN CLOSED
- PITLIMITER HAS TO STAY ON UNTIL THE GREEN FLAG IS OUT
- A CAUTION WILL LAST FOR AT LEAST 3 LAPS

Is the R2 tire restriction in place for racers to need to pit more often? It seems R2's would overheat extremely bad causing extreme loss of grip, and many big wrecks. Maybe it should be R3 instead of R2's?

EDIT: I tested this out on the Oval Starters server, the tires went up to 105 degrees on an 8 lap race. Maybe the overheating won't be too bad.

Tbh. R2's are a bad choice ... if u running alone it is not much of problem, but if u race in draft, u have less downforce which causes the tires to extremly heat up.
I think after a few laps the car will not be driveable anymore, tires might be even blow, through overheating.

I really hope Fischfix tested his rulez before he has set them up.

Quote from yankman :

Tbh. R2's are a bad choice ... if u running alone it is not much of problem, but if u race in draft, u have less downforce which causes the tires to extremly heat up.
I think after a few laps the car will not be driveable anymore, tires might be even blow, through overheating.

I really hope Fischfix tested his rulez before he has set them up.

I agree, in the 360 lapper ALOT of people's tires had exploded by the end. Some peoples at around half way.

I vote R3's.

Hopefully I'll be there on monday, i've not been able to connect to the server for a while. So I hope it'll work.

the reason for R2 is mainly the FCY situations. i drive with R3 most of the times. they cool down too much and won't heat up barely after a FCY. R2 are heating up enough after a FCY because they have a lower working temperature. also your left front does not go that cold even after 120 laps not like with R3s. which enhances grip overall speaking.

it is true that R2 heat up more under draft and even more under bumpdraft. so you have to care about tires. thats just another facet of strategy. you have to think about when it is wise to draft, when do i need to pit in. when is it important to take it slow or to push. driving alone the tires last for about 120 laps in my testing with my setup and R2s. with this R2-tire-restriction tires become an important part of the strategy which has to be adjusted during the race.

before that tires were no problem at all they just get stone cold after 2 successive Cautions.

i am up for testing the r2s during heavy drafting this evening if someone wants to join me, i am on the event server. i say, if they last for about 30 to 40 laps under draft, then its okay to use R2s. if they blow up after 10 laps of drafting i see a problem with this new rule.

its different with bumpdrafting: bumpdrafting should be used to close a gap or to get away. not to drive 100 laps with it. you can get away from the pack with good draft or basic bumpdrafting after about 5 laps.


you also have to think about: in the beginning there are almost every 10 laps (if not more) a safetycar. in the end its less. most accidents happen in the beginning. at the end its more about strategy.

i would be happy if we have about 3 pitstops per car in a race which would make the races much more interesting during the whole race. at the moment you get through with 1 pitstop. if you are wise you do it under a caution.

i've also noticed a problem in the aston race. its a misunderstanding of the caution rules:

#38 yankman was the leader behind the pacecar, followed by one or two cars a lap down and then by #35 schawo in 2nd place. yankman went to the pits during the caution, so the two lapers behind the pacecar ARE ALLOWED TO PASS, because they are not the leader. Schawo is not allowed to pass the pacecar, because he is the new leader at that moment.

so in simple words: if you are right behind the pacecar (no other car between you and the pacecar) AND NOT THE LEADER you are allowed to pass the pace-car.

sounds good ill be there

me and yankman did some testing this evening with the R2s. i just took my normal oval set and put on r2s, yankman had a modified set i think. anyway. we did 50 laps with drafting most of the times. the tires got hot but they did not explode. after 50 laps i did a pitstop and the pitcrew changed the frpmt right tire with >60% wear.

in conclusion to that we will have the r2 tire restriction in the race.


you now only need to do the maths for your strategy and maybe some more testing with your set.

I will try again and be there, But with our Charity Trip starting on thursday Im pushed for time to get to the PC at the moment

Good luck to all if I dont make it again

Cheers
Fin

am i aloud to race this time

as you run with keyboard, we first have to see if you can handle traffic. so we will decide after your qualifying. as there is a 20 min. open qualifying with lots of traffic. if you want to be more certain, come this weekend on the oval-starters server.

Quote from Fischfix :

as you run with keyboard, we first have to see if you can handle traffic. so we will decide after your qualifying. as there is a 20 min. open qualifying with lots of traffic. if you want to be more certain, come this weekend on the oval-starters server.

ok i might run with mouse

LFSCAR 360degree.tk CUP SERIES SEASON 2: RACE 6 Kyoto +130°

Hi ladies and gentlemen,

today, monday 30th of July we are racing the 6th event of this season, the Kyoto +130° on the Kyoto Oval.
Start of the Event will be as usual at 18.15 UTC/GMT on the FM 360° Server.
The password will be:
Qualifying: 20 min. open qualy, NO tire-restriction
Race: 130 laps, R2 tire-restriction

The race will be held with an R2-tire restriction. which means you are not allowed to use
any other tire compound during the race. Any violating of this rule will result in an emediate
disqualification or a disqualification in the race-review porcess.

However you are allowed to use an other tire-compound for the Qualifying.

We will use the same pacecar rules as in the aston race, which means, when a CAUTION massage
comes out, you have to press the pitlimiter immediately. the pits won't be open for any car
during the first caution lap. you are allowed to speed up to close gaps when you get the "close
gaps" command. in the last lap of a caution you are only allowed to release the pitlimiter when the green
flag comes out. if a caution comes out during the last 3 laps of a race, the race will have 135 laps.


Not allowed to race due to penalties are: #14
Number #01 will run under protest during the qualifying.

i hope i will see a lot of you for some decent OVAL ACTION
cheers
Fischfix

GWADanny; DrifterElliott; Sisolak; Becky Rose; james12s;
BranislavS; HogaMan; keni007; Whisper15; LONT;
G.Gab; SF-Joe; AdonisAmaronis; Foqs; ayrton senna 87;
Dennis93; mcintyrej; racer hero; richard3310; LFSn00b;
yankman; Rawex; J@mes; ronaldnl; finlay
poseidon88; Ketil; duesjov; mobiholik; 11SuLLy11;
Belain; IceMan31x; Byrney2004; Thorvertonian; popps258;
Brainblaster666; Ramses; eimer_; Ecret666; rAcEr2418;
h3adbang3r; mutt107; hariel-HUN-; Theman; Dr.Bleifuss;
DeKo; Miso SVK; faster111; Fischfix; Leifde;
Stix; Crazy Harry; FM-Failure; 510N3D;

the incident during the causion phase was due to me being pressured to go quick and catch up, i was looking at the minimap and i anticipated catching the pack on the s/f straight, but i caught them quicker, i broke as hard as i could and tried to miss the cars infont but the speed was too low,i think 50mph is too slow, it was intirally my fault and i feel really bad but after people were moaning at me and being very bitchy over it, i in the end surrendered my race and am debating my future in the race, but if i do race again i will not be using vt due to the absolute rudeness of the other drivers, and say ' no excuses here' hen all i was doing was apologising, i am not very good with comunication due to my aspergers syndrome so please do not take it out on be, i would call what happened bullying tbo it was that bad

first lap crash between #96 and #66, both cars spin out directly into the pitroad (even without a speeding penalty) so the admins decided there for no need for a Caution to be given out. which was right in my opinion. there is no saver place on the track then pit road usually. both cars just go on, do a quick pitstop to repair the damage and continue and wait for the first caution. The only one who was victim was #79 because he had some damage but had to continue without a pitstop.

just a review of this before the bitching starts.

no need for bitching this time. was my last lfscar race anyhow.
series just has too much problems, until they're fixed i see no point in spending my time with it.

thats the problem of lfs to be honest, not offering any facility for this kind of racing. i am sorry but this is the closest you can get at the moment... at least in lfs...

I am also leaving LFSCAR now instead of after the pancake race. I had never tested my car with a full load of fuel, and my setup was relatively loose as it was with around 10%. But with 100%, i was fighting hard not to slide the car out and spin, which failed. G. Gab and J.B., I apologize for the incidences between us in the race.

My report:

I was practicing a lot before the race (again), I mean, I've made a race simulation on friday to know, if the R2 tires can last this much laps. I have made a wired conclusion: the outside tires (right side) can last for the whole 130 lap race, but the inner tires blew to puncture at 105th lap. At first that meant to me, that there is something wrong with the LFS tire wear simulation, but as I started to think about, I thought my setup is set for outside tire grip. So as I turn the (racing)wheel, it turns the right front wheel, and the left side is slipping only, thats why it had a puncture. By the way I couldn't make a (long) draft simulation, so I didn't know how the slipstream will effect to the tire wear.

Qual:

A word to Fishfix: I know, I've made only two races here, but I think I can have a dissent. On the oval, next time plz don't do an open quali, because it don't make any sence. In my opinion, If somebody had luck, he could catch a slipstream with somebody who is fast, so the fast man became more faster. So, i think, the qualification results didn't show the fastness, only how much luck do you had. Plus, the 20 minutes was very few. That's way I was be able to make only one darft lap, which was not so good.

Race:

I can't say much: james12s: apologise accapted. That incident ruined up my race, I have finished last, with i don't know, 60 laps (or so) behind. All the practicing was unnecessary, I could catch the last position with no practice either. After the crash I was trying to calm down, tried to not to say anything, but I was driving a bit more arrogant, so I had killed my tires, and 20 laps before the end I had the left front puncture. That was all the practice about. Plus, I was the only one who had a puncture. It was totally irrelevant, because I was 60 laps behind.
Fishfix: Maybe james12s is right. I also think (also if i don't think about this crash) that this pit limiter stuff is not so good. In RL nascar thw pacecar going 90 or 100 mph, so the tires cool down much slower, and maybe they can avoid crashes easyer. And two more things:
1. Is the admin channel in ventrillo necessary?
2. I asked it before the race, but I ask again in write: Why the warm up lap counts to the race? I am not mad at anyone, I just dont understand why can't we set the race to 132 laps?
It was sad that we only had 14 racers, and more sad: only 7 has finished. Maybe somehow the series should have some advertisement. Not for money for sure. Maybe if somebody logs in to one of the FM servers by the welcome message the software should write into the chat something about the event. Just an idea.

Thank you to Fishfix and all the FM stuff to organize the race! I know it is very hard, you have to concentrate to many things, maybe the racers should concentrate as much as the admins.

Quote from hariel-HUN- :

I can't say much: james12s: apologise accapted.

thanks

Quote from james12s :

It was intirally my fault and i feel really bad but after people were moaning at me and being very bitchy over it, i in the end surrendered my race and am debating my future in the race, but if i do race again i will not be using vt due to the absolute rudeness of the other drivers, and say ' no excuses here' hen all i was doing was apologising

Keep it to the truth please.
Nobody was argueing about your apology. In fact I think an apology is the best u can do in such situations.
But right after that, u tried to explain what u've done wrong.
Well there was race going on and the voice chat is not the place to explain. You can do that in here.

Quote from hariel-HUN- :

If somebody had luck, he could catch a slipstream with somebody who is fast, so the fast man became more faster.

Well the sense of qualification is to line up driver according to their speed.
In a plain oval race speed means mostly drafting. So from this point of view the open qualifying measure ur abilities to draft with someon else.
Giving points out for and open qualifying is another thing cause there are at least 2 persons involved in doing a fast lap ... so why should one of them get the points for getting the pole position. In the start of the season it was said, there will be only an open qualifying if the single qualy takes to long.

One thing I am not sure about are the pace rules.
In Aston race fischfix said every car that is in front of the leader can pass the pacecar.

Yesterday I, as the leader said, after doing my pitstop that the cars in front can pass the pacecar. But with that in mind the lucky dog rule makes no sense. Or with other words they all got the opportunty to gain a lap and the lucky dog gains even 2 laps.
Is this really as it should be ?

Quote :

Quote:
Originally Posted by james12s
It was intirally my fault and i feel really bad but after people were moaning at me and being very bitchy over it, i in the end surrendered my race and am debating my future in the race, but if i do race again i will not be using vt due to the absolute rudeness of the other drivers, and say ' no excuses here' hen all i was doing was apologising

Keep it to the truth please.
Nobody was argueing about your apology. In fact I think an apology is the best u can do in such situations.
But right after that, u tried to explain what u've done wrong.
Well there was race going on and the voice chat is not the place to explain. You can do that in here.

it may have seemed that way but if you read my post my social skills are crap and i sometimes dont say what i mean

the lucky dog rules are not the same as in nascar. in nascar it says: the lucky dog is the first car which is a lap down WHEN THE PACECAR COMES OUT and not the car which is causing the caution.

as we can't have that information by the time the caution comes out in lfs, we are limited to determine the lucky dog when the field is sorted before the restart. most of the times the admin who is watching for the lucky will be confused with the changing in lfs, as the display is not correct all the time. thats also why we needed 2 laps to find out that I was lucky dog at the pacecar situation yesterday.


the open qualifying is an improvement in my opinion. it does not last as long as a single qualifying, it forces the people to find someone to draft with and it shows more the speed of the drivers under racing conditions. me for example teamed up with racer, we did like 15 draft laps more or less successfully. i wish we could reduce the laps which are allowed in qualifying as well to 6 laps per car. so a bit more of strategy is involved like WHENdo i go out and with WHO i will draft, how much laps did yankman did so far,....

the car changed dramatically during the race. for example #51 iis one of the best racedrivers i know and had no problem at all during qualifying but in the race, he spun out in T2 in lap 1! My car was also totally horrible to drive. i had to fight against oversteer (although my setup is very understeery) i think a big part of the reason for that car changing is the wind. but thats just a nother piece of the puzzle to solve when you want to win.

overall, i am not very happy with the driver situation, i've really thought this season will be different then last season. but still, everyone is leaving in the middle of the season because they think they don't have any chance on the championships. i am also thinking about the points system from season one which forced people to try to finish a race more then this time.
At least we have a good fight for the championships this year between strokes and yankman and there are 4 races to come including the kyoto 360 event which is kind of its own championship.

the pacecar speed really depends on the track in nascar. sometimes its 60kph (short tracks) sometimes it goes up to 150. as we do not have an adjustable pitlimiter, we are going with the 80km/h and i think with the R2 tires this is one of the best decisions we have made in lfscar this season. we don't have that much bumps, concertinas and spinouts during the cautions. the cautions are now much saver IF... you know what happened yesterday.

what i can say to the crash during the caution. i did review it and all i can say for now is, #999 won't be allowed to race for the rest of the season. and i think you will understand this decision. i do not know what went on in the drivers channel, but the decision is made because of the fact, you crashed out several cars under a caution, one car had to resume from the pits. nothing more to say.
the incident in the beginning was #96 fault. but it is nothing which should end a season for both of you. this kind of crashes can happen everytime at any skill level. rear car starts to slide, hits back end of front car. but it is your decision if you guys want to leave. but to be honest i am a bit disappointed.

at the end of the day, it was a normal race with the usual incidents and the usual suspects in the front. the r2s and the pitlimiter were an improvement. more cars usually cause more wrecks, so that might be the reason for the lack of FCYs

well tbo i am happy you have said i cant race because it was a genuine mistake and you not being in the driver channel is a problem because you would have heard me being encouraged to got quicker, i was tryin to not keep the caution too long, in the first place i respected you fischfix but now all of that is lost,you take things far to serious and are never concistant, you can shove lfscar were the sun dont shine

Take things far too seriously? Its a serious league, so why did you sign up if you wanted something fun where there arent any consequensces to your actions.

As for "Bullying" on vent, imho thats frankly a load of rubbish, there was very little said, and from very few people, and in fact it was you who was talking the most James, which is why yankman decided to tell you to be quiet in the end.

My race report is the shortest yet thoguh, which is nice:

Qualifying:
Great fun, great drafting with byrney, but we had a collision with a slow #999 car, not really sure what happened there, sure it will be reviewed

Race:
Apart from the crash with #999 which has already been discussed, my race passed without incident, although i must comment on the timings of the FCY messages, which were very inconsistent, and i feel gave yankman a small advantage when they changed just as he was passing the pits! (Although yes, i should have taken advantage as well )