...what? Does Scawen have something to do with CTRA?
...what? Does Scawen have something to do with CTRA?
He actually does have some to do with the CTRA, seeing functions added into Insim, Becky has requested and Scawen has added them. Also Bob, the way you said that Scawen is deep into doing other things, and then mentioned his wife, sounds sorta dirty... 
Not directly; just listening to Becky's requests and beefs 
edit: damn you Dawes.
edit: damn you Dawes.
Well I will be expecting more competitions like the LX one, it was so popular and gives us something to look forward to between patches. Remember patch Y is some way off, its the next big patch with lots of updates.
Sorry for going off topic, but that means 2 months +- probally from now?
But of course I understand that we canot set a time on when the new patch is coming, just me that is curios
Two months would be very VERY optimistic. Depending on how much Scawen wants to implement before going public again, I'd start with the estimate of about half a year. Getting something earlier would be a nice surprise, but by all means don't expect it.
back to original topic: constant flow of cash as a business model is good, now licenses are sold perhaps once in two years per player. I would happily accept paying subscription fees like 5€ per month, and that would already in 8 months be more that what I've paid this far in two years owning the license. I know some businesses who increased their stability by moving from selling hardware to renting services instead, and thus getting more predictable flow of cash (and more of cash).
well, for me it does not really matter much how lfs is run, just that it stays alive for the next 50 years. (i would be 83 then =)
well, for me it does not really matter much how lfs is run, just that it stays alive for the next 50 years. (i would be 83 then =)
it´s wonderful to see everyone taking care of the developers and the whole project status...
as some proposed before... i would like to make things clear on how i think it might work perfectly
S1 and S2 licenses should remain as they are now, with their initial fee only, with constant main engine optimizations and pretty much like how S1 has coexisted along with S2.
S3 will charge monthly (subscriptions that can be bought in packs of 3, or 6 months or even a year for further discounts), but it´ll charge only for extra content that might demand constant development and a steady amount of income for projects such as the CTRA, regulated championships, evolving racing models, dynamic aging of tracks, and all the wonderful things that actually happen in the motorsports world.
i would actually love to see my car´s suspension to be wrecked by a poorly newly installed patch in blackwood´s asphalt, content that surprises us every time that we enter a championship. it is my fault for not realizing that it was actually damaging my car, althoug it was placed over the ideal raceline. LFS is too perfect from my point of view... greatest thing ever was the wind... added an extra flavor to the race, and takes out the great drivers who can handle that kind of variables.
these kind of things demands constant development and a steady income to work... and i think that the maintenance of the aditional content or even some of the new content of the game would not interfere with the coding process of scawen... so nobody will be nosing into his code... and he might get more people to work in other areas that demand more time than coding.
and about the patch Y... don´t sweat it guys.. take the holiday while we enjoy the wonders of patch X.... although bigger signal lights and a horn for the start of the race would be great
as some proposed before... i would like to make things clear on how i think it might work perfectly
S1 and S2 licenses should remain as they are now, with their initial fee only, with constant main engine optimizations and pretty much like how S1 has coexisted along with S2.
S3 will charge monthly (subscriptions that can be bought in packs of 3, or 6 months or even a year for further discounts), but it´ll charge only for extra content that might demand constant development and a steady amount of income for projects such as the CTRA, regulated championships, evolving racing models, dynamic aging of tracks, and all the wonderful things that actually happen in the motorsports world.
i would actually love to see my car´s suspension to be wrecked by a poorly newly installed patch in blackwood´s asphalt, content that surprises us every time that we enter a championship. it is my fault for not realizing that it was actually damaging my car, althoug it was placed over the ideal raceline. LFS is too perfect from my point of view... greatest thing ever was the wind... added an extra flavor to the race, and takes out the great drivers who can handle that kind of variables.
these kind of things demands constant development and a steady income to work... and i think that the maintenance of the aditional content or even some of the new content of the game would not interfere with the coding process of scawen... so nobody will be nosing into his code... and he might get more people to work in other areas that demand more time than coding.
and about the patch Y... don´t sweat it guys.. take the holiday while we enjoy the wonders of patch X.... although bigger signal lights and a horn for the start of the race would be great
aka commercial suicide :tombstone
do you really think that a subscription fee model would be a commercial suicide?.. it´s been a successful model for most of the companies who implemented it... worst case scenario... it won´t wonk... but under no circunstances i think that it´ll be a disaster...
and remember that i´m talkin hypotetically, this is NOT how S3 would be... i´m just trying to see if there is support for this type of financial model, because i think it´ll be more beneficial for both the development and the developers.
seeing that they implemented a pay per download for the skin method for the high res skins, proves that the game advancement is growing faster than the income... and that means the hindering of the whole project...
please consider that i´m noone to speak of these things... i´m purely talking based on speculations and hypothesis...we have yet to hear from the developers how the licensing process will be for S3... i wish to express my favor to a subscription method, and i want to know if there is support for this because its tremendously beneficial for ourselves as the customers and for the whole LFS project and the things around it
and remember that i´m talkin hypotetically, this is NOT how S3 would be... i´m just trying to see if there is support for this type of financial model, because i think it´ll be more beneficial for both the development and the developers.
seeing that they implemented a pay per download for the skin method for the high res skins, proves that the game advancement is growing faster than the income... and that means the hindering of the whole project...
please consider that i´m noone to speak of these things... i´m purely talking based on speculations and hypothesis...we have yet to hear from the developers how the licensing process will be for S3... i wish to express my favor to a subscription method, and i want to know if there is support for this because its tremendously beneficial for ourselves as the customers and for the whole LFS project and the things around it
This r the dev ????????????????
http://i.boomtown.net/pics/9/9/9/52999/292x219.jpg
Lol how many age they have?
________
Bmw M12
http://i.boomtown.net/pics/9/9/9/52999/292x219.jpg
Lol how many age they have?
________
Bmw M12
I bet Scawen is busily coding and testing for the next major patch, implementing and perfecting some serious physics upgrades. Who knows? He did promise improved physics back in the patch X series test patches and judging by LFS's history it is quite possible that he is delivering on his promise as we speak.
No, it means they listened to an outcry of a part of the community who wanted better visuals, and to cover their expenses for the increased bandwith and transfer rates, they now charge a small fee... I don't think many users have chosen the option to pay for the higher res-skins, people on the internet tend to take what's free and not bother with something they have to pay for (more so when there is something only marginally worse for free)...
If the registrations on lfs.net are anything to go by, the devs have a constant revenue stream anyway, with the odd spike following a big release:
(note this figures for this graph included both licensed and unlicensed accounts)
(note this figures for this graph included both licensed and unlicensed accounts)
160 000?! 
What that "userbase" exactly means? LFSworld including demo racers?
What that "userbase" exactly means? LFSworld including demo racers?As I said, any account that was ever created on lfs.net. I got the data from the forums, which shares the same account system. I think as a very rough rule of thumb, there are 3 demo accounts to every licensed account.
I think that "160,000" is how many accounts are registered on LFS.net, which is pretty accurate, because I (personally) have 2 S2 accounts, and a demo account on LFS.net (plan to make it 3 S2 accounts soon(ish)). I know that the mods have a demo account after the recent Phlosz0rs forum hacking, then there's loads of the guys coming on here and going "I CRAXZ0RZ!".
better visuals is part of the game development advancement, wich demands more resources... i mean... please, understand my concept, i don`t favor the tiranous "you don`t pay, you don`t play" this game licensing method for s1 and s2 should remain as it is, it has worked great up till now and just watch the wonder that the developers have brought for us, LFS is by far THE best racing simulation enviroment available... period.
you want more and better?, you will get more and better, we've recieved FAR more than we have given to the developers, just imagine how much money people are still spending on cheap games with no development backup, no improvements, no community, no nothing...
the developers of this game gave us the DREAM concept of the gaming industry, they are one of the few alive development team that's working for the sake of the constant game development concept, and i'm assuming this is their dream also... the developers won't ask us... that`s why i`m here to ask the community to favor a better concept to support the whole infraestructure that they`ve given us...
come on, what`s 3 or 5 pounds a month... that`s pocket money compared to what we spend going our with drinks or beer in a single weekend day...
this is to support your own dreams too people... this game is my dream and i`m willing to support it.
I wrote a loong post before this,but decided to edit it and say just this:
If LFS goes subscription based, I guarantee you that many people will stop playing. There are many players from countries where online banking is either non existant, or getting a credit card/debit card that allows one to purchase things online internationally,is hard to get. Also underage/young users: "I gave you 24 quids for that stupid game,now you want a fiver every month? HELL NO!" or "You might have earned that fiver somewhere,but It's me who has the credit card"(Catch my drift here?) And let's not forget people who are just too cheap for anything subscription based.
Only way for users like those is to make some kind of prepaid voucher based system,kind of Blizzard is doing for WoW around here. But LFS team is not Blizzard.Cost of distributing those vouchers would be bigger than possible profits(racing sims don't get as much users as WoW),therefore the question is:
Should LFS go to a subscription based sytem,and possibly lose a part of the userbase,or stay like this?
And that is a question only the devs can answer.
so... what you are saying is that you will stop and trash those 25 you invested in the game that will still get updates... you will stop playing s2 with all the support given just as S1 recieved support from S2...just because s3 went subscription based?... i´m sorry but that´s pretty narrow minded.
LFS won´t decrease it´s database... people will still be able to play s2 and s1 as they are playing now..
LFS won´t decrease it´s database... people will still be able to play s2 and s1 as they are playing now..
Database, huh?
Anyway, that's exactly what he is saying, except the thing about the database, which he didn't say. Making LFS subscription based would hurt its regular players, it would hurt its future sales. I have been playing this game for years, but if they started charging by the month I'd just go play rFactor instead. Subscription is not an ideal, it's a necessity for games which require a routine investment to maintain their infrastructure. Plus the whole idea seems to be based on the fact the LFS devs are suffering economically, which they are not. LFS does fine within its current business model, it needs a monthly subscription as much as it needs Nordschleife.
would you really go playing rfactor... knowing that there is almost no support for the engine, seeing no improvements even where there was a huge development in the engine when GTR2 was released?... Rfactor is no longer an active developer-community simulation enviroment as LFS it is...
you would still enjoy new features and even more content provided by the funding of the S3 project..., you won't stop playing S2.
i love customization too, that's Rfactor's main point... but it's also it's doom... the engine had to be heavily adapted in order to recieve the enormous amount of features that GTR2 involved... and it's not retroactively compatible... that means.. if Rfactor releases an Rfactor update based on the improvements made in GTR2, almost nothing from the previous version would work, at least not until people start updating the mods... and there are too many good mods that will be trashed with a new engine release... people will still play the old version to play with old mods, and it'll be a mess
i'd rather play with 1 highly developed ficticious model, than with 20 poorly developed, would be real, models.
GTR2 i belive you... for a while, Rfactor, you won't go there definetively, everyone who's played LFS seriously would never go back to another sim, unless it's heavily redone, or just for an exclusive mod... i used to play with the F1 Mod for Rfactor... i really didi't like the sound of LFS's F1, never played with it... until the day came... we raced for over 3 hours... and Rfactor's F1 is no more... plus, there is no further confirmed development on the F1 series for Rfactor... there are a lot of good mods too... but in the end, nothing beats LFS for the real complete and well done racing experience.
the problem is that everyone wants more, and they don't want to give a penny for it... i think it's unfair after everything that the developers of this wonderful game are doing for us... and if they are not suffering economically, what? do you want to wait until they do?, come on... this might had started as a hobby, but now it's a full time job, and it's a becoming business, why nobody wants to support them with a fee... i could be a single pound and we have people crying over it... what would you doo with one single can of beer less per month... and no, you are taking just one drink for tonight, not two... and for those who don't go out like me, it's a bottle of soda. it's almost worthless, but in masses is a steady and "PREDICTABLE" income, wich is what every business model needs.
you would still enjoy new features and even more content provided by the funding of the S3 project..., you won't stop playing S2.
i love customization too, that's Rfactor's main point... but it's also it's doom... the engine had to be heavily adapted in order to recieve the enormous amount of features that GTR2 involved... and it's not retroactively compatible... that means.. if Rfactor releases an Rfactor update based on the improvements made in GTR2, almost nothing from the previous version would work, at least not until people start updating the mods... and there are too many good mods that will be trashed with a new engine release... people will still play the old version to play with old mods, and it'll be a mess
i'd rather play with 1 highly developed ficticious model, than with 20 poorly developed, would be real, models.
GTR2 i belive you... for a while, Rfactor, you won't go there definetively, everyone who's played LFS seriously would never go back to another sim, unless it's heavily redone, or just for an exclusive mod... i used to play with the F1 Mod for Rfactor... i really didi't like the sound of LFS's F1, never played with it... until the day came... we raced for over 3 hours... and Rfactor's F1 is no more... plus, there is no further confirmed development on the F1 series for Rfactor... there are a lot of good mods too... but in the end, nothing beats LFS for the real complete and well done racing experience.
the problem is that everyone wants more, and they don't want to give a penny for it... i think it's unfair after everything that the developers of this wonderful game are doing for us... and if they are not suffering economically, what? do you want to wait until they do?, come on... this might had started as a hobby, but now it's a full time job, and it's a becoming business, why nobody wants to support them with a fee... i could be a single pound and we have people crying over it... what would you doo with one single can of beer less per month... and no, you are taking just one drink for tonight, not two... and for those who don't go out like me, it's a bottle of soda. it's almost worthless, but in masses is a steady and "PREDICTABLE" income, wich is what every business model needs.
Bottomline........
If the dev's NEED extra funding for development, I am sure they would ask for it.
If anyone feels the need to chuck some beans the devs way, stick some credit on your LFS account, or buy someone in need a voucher.
They obviously do not need/want/require any extra funding ATM, otherwise they would be making in-roads into organising such a thing.
I think the question, "If LFS went subsricption based, would you carry on using it?" is a good question, personally........hmm.......it's a tough one, on the one hand I have gotten way, way, WAY more than my £24's worth, and wouldn't mind paying more for it, but on the other hand, I could really do without another "utility bill" LOL
If the dev's NEED extra funding for development, I am sure they would ask for it.
If anyone feels the need to chuck some beans the devs way, stick some credit on your LFS account, or buy someone in need a voucher.
They obviously do not need/want/require any extra funding ATM, otherwise they would be making in-roads into organising such a thing.
I think the question, "If LFS went subsricption based, would you carry on using it?" is a good question, personally........hmm.......it's a tough one, on the one hand I have gotten way, way, WAY more than my £24's worth, and wouldn't mind paying more for it, but on the other hand, I could really do without another "utility bill" LOL
here is something i just realized by answering to a PM just a while ago...
imagine that S1 and S2 licenses might be able to be released as Free for everyone to download, just thanks to those who can spend 2 or 3 miserable pounds a month, that's possible with a predictable and steady income... come on guys.. that's pocket money for anyone who can afford a computer and an internet connection... internet uplink you can pay yes... but why not LFS? what's your internet bill? is it somewhere near 3 pounds? or should i add an extra 0?
You can buy a package... and pay £25 a year with discounts i don't know, if you managed to get a credit card to buy the game, why can't you now for something like this?... i personally don't have a CC, and i had to ask my girlfriend, almost everyone has some way to get it...
the main problem here is that EVERYONE wants everything free... and that's just not right... just lookout for cracks for S2... atrocious
imagine that S1 and S2 licenses might be able to be released as Free for everyone to download, just thanks to those who can spend 2 or 3 miserable pounds a month, that's possible with a predictable and steady income... come on guys.. that's pocket money for anyone who can afford a computer and an internet connection... internet uplink you can pay yes... but why not LFS? what's your internet bill? is it somewhere near 3 pounds? or should i add an extra 0?
You can buy a package... and pay £25 a year with discounts i don't know, if you managed to get a credit card to buy the game, why can't you now for something like this?... i personally don't have a CC, and i had to ask my girlfriend, almost everyone has some way to get it...
the main problem here is that EVERYONE wants everything free... and that's just not right... just lookout for cracks for S2... atrocious
This is not true. It's a market and people evaluate what they get for their money and compare it with other options. The current LFS pricing scheme is what the developers wanted, obviously while staying within the market constraints.
and... how are the developers?
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FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG