Forgive me if this has been discussed in and out of various threads, I could'nt find/compile a complete discussion on this topic.

...I'll cut this short. What I propose is for the dev's to hardcode an automatic update feature into the LFS program, I think it could very well be the answer of illegal copys finding themselfs on machines.

Demo users download the demo, internet connection is a must to play demo.
An automatic update system that is placed right before LFS starts/and does one or two checks while LFS is running. This update system will read through the whole LFS folder checking everything is in the demo state. To run a demo version of LFS you must have an internet connection. If the update system is not happy it lock's the demo based on your machine/ip...for this to work, this update system must be hardcoded into LFS, more importantly; even older copys will need to respond to and install these updates from LFSW containing this new feature...

Scenario: MR.X has intentions and the knowhow to get free content from the demo, so, MR.X downloads a copy of the demo. In order for gameplay he must be connected to LFSW, the automatic update system sends some basic info like cars and tracks used on last race, if the 'last race' content contained S2 content he's been at no good. Obviousley these upate's must be encrypted.
LFSW sends a NO to the new update system banning that user from playing on or off line.

Good idea if your intention is to alienate half of LFS' user base.

...how would it alienate them?...because of the "must be connected to LFSW"?...and the need for an internet connection?...its an online racing sim....

i don't know whats the use of this, to be honest.

Quote from Fischfix :

i don't know whats the use of this, to be honest.

I though I explained the bennefits above..An automatic update/check system that was hardcoded into LFS would check demo ip's/machines for S2 content....can you not see how benneficial this would be lol?

The requiring LFS to have a net connection is pure silliness. I know of several people who are still on dial-up (I was at one point) and they are charged *per minute*. Requiring an active net connection in order to play LFS would instantly say to them "you gotta pay to play this game", and would alienate them for sure.

Secondly, what happens if the player's net connection goes down during a single player race? LFS would complain under your proposed system, and prevent the (legitimate in this example) player from accessing even the demo content. If I was a demo racer, I would be VERY annoyed by that.

EDIT: Thirdly, scanning through ALL of LFS's files would be a rather nasty burden. Are you sure it's such a good idea to do that?

Quote from CSU1 :

can you not see how benneficial this would be lol?

Nope. Please enlighten us. How would it be beneficial? Who would benefit from this? In my opinion: no one. Sure, maybe you would prevent some demo users from cracking the game and thus getting access to S2 content. Nobody gains anything from this, though. And if you think that a demo user will buy an S2 license because he can't crack the game, then you're being naïve. He'll just either stick with the demo or move on to something else.

Quote from JohnUK89 :

The requiring LFS to have a net connection is pure silliness. I know of several people who are still on dial-up (I was at one point) and they are charged *per minute*. Requiring an active net connection in order to play LFS would instantly say to them "you gotta pay to play this game", and would alienate them for sure.

Secondly, what happens if the player's net connection goes down during a single player race? LFS would complain under your proposed system, and prevent the (legitimate in this example) player from accessing even the demo content. If I was a demo racer, I would be VERY annoyed by that.

If the connection did go down during a single player race nothing would happen with the proposed system as it sends info after every race, if there's no connection nothing will happen, if the connection comes back on and update system sends two days worth of content report and you have been not cracking...you'll still be ok to play.

Only when LFS is able and connected to send content reports will the system come into play.

I do understand how this would alienate off-line demo users, and the only way to make this system work is offer demo users two options.

1.) A new automatic update system is being introduced to LFS, if your machine is connected to the internet you will see absolutally no difference whatsoever( if you don't crack )

2.) A new automatic update system is being introduced to LFS, if you play LFS off-line and do not have an internet connection you may miss crucial updates and game content.

------------------------------------------------------

Ok, let's get one thing straight, LFS is an online Racing Simulator, online meaning if you've downloaded it and intend to play it you have an internet connection. As I pointed out above even if you play off line nothing will happen but as soon as LFS sees a connection it sends content reports.

Quote from CSU1 :

Only when LFS is able and connected to send content reports will the system come into play.

Are you serious? Then what's the point of even coding this into LFS? A demo user can just plug out his internet connection and nothing would happen, rendering your system completely useless. Hell, he can even just set up his firewall to completely block any LFS-related application from accessing the internet and the system wouldn't work.

Quote from obsolum :

And if you think that a demo user will buy an S2 license because he can't crack the game, then you're being naïve. He'll just either stick with the demo or move on to something else.

Nobody wants to see their product hacked to pieces.

Quote from CSU1 :

To run a demo version of LFS you must have an internet connection. If the update system is not happy it lock's the demo based on your machine/ip...for this to work, this update system must be hardcoded into LFS, more importantly; even older copys will need to respond to and install these updates from LFSW containing this new feature...

This is the opposite to your later post, which goes as follows:

Quote from CSU1 :

If there's no connection nothing will happen, if the connection comes back on and update system sends two days worth of content report and you have been not cracking...you'll still be ok to play.

I can see this being *easily* abused. Steps are as follows:
1) Player runs unaltered demo with net connection active, LFSW accepts.

2) Player disables net connection, system realises, stops trying to update with LFSW

3) Player alters files and carries on playing, unaffected by system

...ok, so the biggest problem here is trying to accomadate for the off-line users or the user of dial-up.

It may work if this system did go ahead with all the above in place and was to say "Demo users, an internet connection is needed for online and offline play"(not a problem for most in this day and age).

"If you use dial up a lite version is available"(containing only demo content...which also would'nt be a problem to download for dial-up either because it would be only a portion of the normal LFS download)

Quote from CSU1 :

"If you use dial up a lite version is available"(containing only demo content...which also would'nt be a problem to download for dial-up either because it would be only a portion of the normal LFS download)

You remove A. People who want to play offline for revenue, and even a "demo" version is still 50 MB (When 7-Zipped removing all licensed content) which is hefty for dialup.

Crackers don't usually pay anyway, tbh i can't see this helping LFS as it will just loose them money

Quote from Jakg :

You remove A. People who want to play offline for revenue, and even a "demo" version is still 50 MB (When 7-Zipped removing all licensed content) which is hefty for dialup.

Crackers don't usually pay anyway, tbh i can't see this helping LFS as it will just loose them money

again, noone wants their hard work hacked to pieces, this would stop any editing to the full demo even before LFS starts to load.

And what happens if said LFSer on dial-up wants to get an S2 license? They have to download LFS again, whether it be a smaller Demo-S2 package or the whole S2 download again, the user is still downloading all of LFS at some point, which makes the point of a "lite" version moot.

And, just to add to the end of this post, I've worked out another way the system could be bypassed: The non-legitimate user edits his hosts file to make all domains relating to the system point at localhost. He then carries on playing, the system unable to contact LFS' servers

meh.......crackers ftw!


has been nice brainstorming with y'all...was just a thought is all. laters

A stupid idea - offline play is offline play. We don't want LFS to get similar to Ubisoft's latest protection, do we? So, let's LFS scan your entire hard drive for crack.. Your system may work for some time, but then there'll be a crack to crack this system..

Quote from Lible :

A stupid idea - offline play is offline play. We don't want LFS to get similar to Ubisoft's latest protection, do we? So, let's LFS scan your entire hard drive for crack.. Your system may work for some time, but then there'll be a crack to crack this system..

what? content reports isnt scanning whole HD???...stuff it, who the hell am I to alienate crackers with no internet connection anyway

You don't realise that with all these hurdles you put in you'd simply do more harm than good. Yes, a few players who cracked S2 (and can't play it online anyway) wouldn't be able to do so, but as LFS is an online game these players don't really do any harm either. So they can race offline with cracked content, whoop-de-do. As soon as they come here to brag about it they get banned anyway or they don't and are forever stuck with the crappy AI, or maybe they actually see how good LFS is and buy a license. The main thing that needs protection is the S2 online mode, and that one is protected from being cracked period.

Now if you put in these security measures nobody gains anything from it. A cracker will not just suddenly buy the game just because he can't crack it anymore, and everyone else who tries the demo just gets irked by the hoops they have to jump through. And I'm sure a lot of players would be really annoyed just by principle about LFS sending system relevant data around the world without asking. Pissing off legit players for the sake of protection always backfires.

But you have to consider the situation when the offline mode gets better AI. At the moment, nobody would probably enjoy the full content. But if/when AI gets better, there might actually be something worth protecting. But I'm sure that anyone with eyes should see the potential the full online mode actually has.

Without going to ridiculous spyware type of scannings, which insult your privacy, it's pretty much impossible to have any protection from crackers...mmmm...crackers. There isn't much you can do.

Yes, but unless Scawen is an AI genius, making the AI not suck (as in, they can actually complete a lap, go to the pits and maybe drive a bit faster than now) doesn't mean the AI will suddenly be nearly as good as online racing. Of course, offline play is going to get better with the next AI update, but it's never going to surpass the thrill of online racing

Quote from AndroidXP :

Yes, but unless Scawen is an AI genius, making the AI not suck (as in, they can actually complete a lap, go to the pits and maybe drive a bit faster than now) doesn't mean the AI will suddenly be nearly as good as online racing. Of course, offline play is going to get better with the next AI update, but it's never going to surpass the thrill of online racing

Yes, I can agree with that. Well, hard to know how genius Scawen can be with the AI, but they might be a challenge for newbie learning to drive. Of course, I would imagine that LFS attracts the more mature group of gamers and sim-racers. Which I think don't have to go desperate as searching cracks. S2 license is pocket money for the most people, so cracks shouldn't be a that huge of a problem.

Quote from Blackout :

Yes, I can agree with that. Well, hard to know how genius Scawen can be with the AI, but they might be a challenge for newbie learning to drive. Of course, I would imagine that LFS attracts the more mature group of gamers and sim-racers. Which I think don't have to go desperate as searching cracks. S2 license is pocket money for the most people, so cracks shouldn't be a that huge of a problem.

In fact, even though it's pocket money I once cracked S1. Yes, shame on me, but I really wanted to try S1 back then. The money was there, but I simply didn't have a creditcard nor the power to convince my parents. I cheated my way around, convinced someone else to buy it for me. LFS might be cheap, but not everyone can buy it even though they have the money.

The more complex and annyoing the system, the worse it is for the users. That is a bad thing. Any copy protection system can either be avoided or fooled, while I agree with them in principle, any developer spending lots of time making the system overly complex is a fool and wasting their time. Users wanting the full experience will buy, users who don't will play demo or crack, regardless of the system.

Quote from Bob Smith :

any developer spending lots of time making the system overly complex is a fool and wasting their time.

+1

LFS is not some sort of microsoft product.